School the day before Thanksgiving

[dcassetta]

A lot of families go out of town a day or two before the start of break, as travel is often significantly cheaper before the start of Thanksgiving week or the weekend before. There are a small number of teachers that will schedule assignments, quizzes, and/or tests for these days that must be taken/turned in on that specific pre-break day. In our district, that last Friday before break is the end of a grading period, meaning those assignments, quizzes, and tests must be completed before the break. Most families have travel booked well in advance of any knowledge of teacher plans. If you wind up with an inflexible teacher that won't let them test or turn in work early, you risk having your child get zeros that could ultimately impact their athletic and fine arts eligibility upon their return from break.

You know it's a regular school day and the end of the grading period, book travel anyway, and it's the teacher's fault?

 

[TiggerTrigger]

You know it's a regular school day and the end of the grading period, book travel anyway, and it's the teacher's fault?

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is not that cut and dry. While I fully understand it's within a teacher's rights to plan a test on the last day before break and it's a gamble to book travel on a scheduled school day, most educators steer clear of this practice. Students are typically somewhere between distracted, burned out or absolutely nuts right before breaks. As a result, planning an exam on the last day before a break typically leads to noticeably lower test scores, which is ultimately an inadequate measure of the children's learning during that grading period. It can then snowball into a poor reflection of the teacher's competence and can hurt both the teacher's and school's ratings/standings. Many school admins advise against end loading a week going into a break for this reason. The parents are wise to these norms and are often just trying to practice some fiscal responsibility. Considering the prices of travel around the holidays, flying out of town on the Thursday or Friday before break could easily equate to a $1,000-2,000 savings on air travel. That kind of savings can determine whether or not a family can afford to spend Thanksgiving with grandma and grandpa.

 

[easyas123]

After how schools treated kids during COVID I'd LMAO at any school employee that even mentioned the word truancy.

Do what is right for your child, are are the PARENT, not the school.

Honestly I'm always somewhat surprised by the way parents approach this, as if they aren't in charge of their own children and someone else is.
(And no, I don't mean being neglectful or a absentee parent, or teaching repeatable/bad habits or in general how to game the system or go about things the incorrect way.)

 

[dcassetta]

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is not that cut and dry. While I fully understand it's within a teacher's rights to plan a test on the last day before break and it's a gamble to book travel on a scheduled school day, most educators steer clear of this practice. Students are typically somewhere between distracted, burned out or absolutely nuts right before breaks. As a result, planning an exam on the last day before a break typically leads to noticeably lower test scores, which is ultimately an inadequate measure of the children's learning during that grading period. It can then snowball into a poor reflection of the teacher's competence and can hurt both the teacher's and school's ratings/standings. Many school admins advise against end loading a week going into a break for this reason. The parents are wise to these norms and are often just trying to practice some fiscal responsibility. Considering the prices of travel around the holidays, flying out of town on the Thursday or Friday before break could easily equate to a $1,000-2,000 savings on air travel. That kind of savings can determine whether or not a family can afford to spend Thanksgiving with grandma and grandpa.

I get that, but how far does it go?

When I was a child, Thanksgiving break was 2 days. Perhaps teachers were advised to not do much Monday-Wednesday as the holiday was approaching. But, as so many people were pulling their kids out early, many schools now seem to be closed for the whole week. So, now teachers should not plan to do much during the week before.

I am not discounting the need for kids to have breaks. But, perhaps there should also be a focus on when we do have school days, they should be productive.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I get that, but how far does it go?

When I was a child, Thanksgiving break was 2 days. Perhaps teachers were advised to not do much Monday-Wednesday as the holiday was approaching. But, as so many people were pulling their kids out early, many schools now seem to be closed for the whole week. So, now teachers should not plan to do much during the week before.

I am not discounting the need for kids to have breaks. But, perhaps there should also be a focus on when we do have school days, they should be productive.

Our district has extended the end of our school year by a week, has us starting 2.5-3 weeks early towards the beginning of August, added on extra time to Christmas break on both ends of the break, and added in two extra weeklong breaks (Oct. and Feb.) in addition to traditional spring break week in March and to help curb some of the ballooning holiday break extensions. Holidays like Veterans Day and Presidents' Day are now in-school days to help make up for some of the break time. Middle school and high school also have finals just before Christmas break to try and keep the drive alive. High school kids in good standing may even be able to exempt some finals. So, even more incentive to stick with it through the holidays. So, they're trying. A lot of kids, like mine, also go out of their way to ask teachers about doing tests/quizzes/assignments early if they know they're going to be out. Surely, that's got to be better than the kids that miss and beg to make things up after the fact.

Something else to consider is that it's not just the students. There are a lot of teachers that use similar justifications to extend their breaks as well. I've seen it a lot with teacher friends. I think that's part of my frustration. Our recent issue with Thanksgiving break involved two teachers that said they'd be there that Friday and would have mandatory assignments due in class. They both wound up being out. The work from their subs could have been done online outside of school. It's not my intention to vilify teachers. They're human and need breaks just like the rest of us. They're typically overworked, underpaid, and definitely underappreciated. I just would have liked to see a more equitable approach to this most recent Thanksgiving break situation. Maybe it stings more since this wasn't even vacation or family holiday travel. I have no say in our travel ball schedule, but sometimes we have to go longer distances or play in states with different holiday/break schedules. This one just happened to coincide with Thanksgiving break.

 

[tvguy]

Honestly I'm always somewhat surprised by the way parents approach this, as if they aren't in charge of their own children and someone else is.
(And no, I don't mean being neglectful or a absentee parent, or teaching repeatable/bad habits or in general how to game the system or go about things the incorrect way.)

I'm always surprised with all the time kids have off that parents feel the need to take additional days. Our problem as parents was WE couldn't get the time off work, and we only had 4 weeks vacation. Our kids has 12,13 or 14 weeks off.
Thanksgiving was a vacation blackout period for my wife and I although their school didn't start taking the entire Thanksgiving week off until after they were out of school. But that would have been a huge child care issue. And I feel sorry for the parents who have to find child care for all this time off.

 

[JLTraveling]

There are a small number of teachers that will schedule assignments, quizzes, and/or tests for these days that must be taken/turned in on that specific pre-break day.

This reminds me of what happened to my dad in college, though it wasn't a pre-break day. My parents wanted to try to be the first family through the gates on Epcot's opening day, because they gave free lifetime passes to that first family. Unfortunately, one of my dad's engineering professors scheduled an exam for that morning that was like 50% of his entire grade. Would NOT let him take it early or late (and my dad's always been a smooth negotiator, so this guy was TOUGH). Still made it to Epcot after the exam, but no chance for the lifetime passes

 

[TiggerTrigger]

This reminds me of what happened to my dad in college, though it wasn't a pre-break day. My parents wanted to try to be the first family through the gates on Epcot's opening day, because they gave free lifetime passes to that first family. Unfortunately, one of my dad's engineering professors scheduled an exam for that morning that was like 50% of his entire grade. Would NOT let him take it early or late (and my dad's always been a smooth negotiator, so this guy was TOUGH). Still made it to Epcot after the exam, but no chance for the lifetime passes

I had a couple of college professors like that. It's too bad your dad couldn't convince them to shift the exam. Lifetime passes would have been pretty amazing! It's interesting that you bring up the professor example. My older one is narrowing down her college acceptances and I've been trying to guess ballpark figures for holiday airfare, keeping in mind that she may get an inflexible professor going with the latest possible window with exam dates.

 

[CdnCarrie]

T-Day here in Canada is on a Monday. Besides the Monday schools are never closed for that week. Friday of the long weekend is school as normal - full day of classes.

 

[tvguy]

T-Day here in Canada is on a Monday. Besides the Monday schools are never closed for that week. Friday of the long weekend is school as normal - full day of classes.

I was in Victoria for Thanksgiving 2019 and I was surprised how many businesses were open. But it is a tourist area, so that may also be a factor.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I was in Victoria for Thanksgiving 2019 and I was surprised how many businesses were open. But it is a tourist area, so that may also be a factor.

Well it's a stat holiday so most people working would have been getting overtime.

 

[sam_gordon]

Well it's a stat holiday so most people working would have been getting overtime.

In the US, you don't automatically get OT for working a holiday. You would get holiday pay PLUS your working hours. OT doesn't HAVE to kick in until you've WORKED 40 hours in the pay week.

 

[sam_gordon]

As has been brought up before, where does it stop? Using Thanksgiving as an example, I remember my kids just having Thurs-Fri off. OK, teachers shouldn't schedule anything on Wednesday, right? Kids will be gone, will be out of control, burned out, whatever. So they've added Wednesday as a day off now. So teachers shouldn't schedule anything on Tuesday, right? Kids will be gone, will be out of control, burned out, whatever.

Now schools (not ours) are taking a week off at Thanksgiving and parents are complaining they shouldn't schedule anything for Friday before the break. At some point parents need to realize these are the days kids are expected to be in school and expected to do work. Sorry, not feeling sorry for folks that have tests or projects due the day before a break starts.

 

[dez1978]

If my kid doesn't want to go and they are not missing any actual learning, I don't make them go. But I also pull them for vacations, so maybe I'm not the best person to give an opinion.

 

[dez1978]

I've been working in the public school system for 21 years. "Fluff days" are part of the overall school experience. School isn't just about academics. It's about building and existing in a community that learns, works and plays together. While the main focus is on academic learning, there need to be opportunities to interact socially, relax, blow off steam and have fun. All work and no play doesn't make anyone happy or well-rounded.

That said, I wouldn't hesitate to let a high school senior skip a strictly fun day. They've experienced enough by now and can decide whether or not they want to participate in the planned activities. For younger kids, I would send them unless you have something specific planned (like leaving on a trip that day). Fun days still present plenty of learning opportunities (waiting your turn, agreeing/compromising on activities or rules, etc.). And strangely enough, these days can often be more difficult for teachers and staff. My class (4th/5th graders with special learning needs) thrives on firm boundaries and a predictable schedule. Once we lighten up and offer more freedom, behaviors tend to increase and the day can quickly get out-of-hand.

This part gets my kid every time. He's got ADHD and when things mess up his normal routine, even in 7th grade, he struggles. We had one of these Fluff days on Veteran's day here and I let him skip. There was a assembly in the morning, then a movie and a middle school basketball game that day. Zero actual class time. I knew he'd likely get into some sort of trouble that day with no structure so when he asked to stay home, I let him. I feel like I have pretty high expectations for him as far as behavior goes, especially after being on some ADHD mom FB groups. Just bc he (and I) has ADHD, doesn't mean he doesn't have to follow the rules. But when everyone is being a bit crazy and his schedule is off, it's much harder for him to ignore the distractions and make good choices than it is on a "normal" day and it's not worth putting him in that situation if he isn't missing anything important.

 

[CdnCarrie]

In the US, you don't automatically get OT for working a holiday. You would get holiday pay PLUS your working hours. OT doesn't HAVE to kick in until you've WORKED 40 hours in the pay week.

I meant holiday pay.

TVguy looks like lots open in Sacramento on T-Day as well. https://www.kcra.com/article/thanksgiving-holiday-sacramento-stores-open/45878413#

 

[tvguy]

I meant holiday pay.

TVguy looks like lots open in Sacramento on T-Day as well. https://www.kcra.com/article/thanksgiving-holiday-sacramento-stores-open/45878413#

There is no legal requirement that I am aware of to pay anything other than straight time on a holiday in the U.S. It is common practice, but not a legal issue. I worked in a salaried job for 16 years and there was no compensation financially for working a holiday. You got a comp day to use later if a holiday is one of your regular work days.
Far fewer businesses were open this Thanksgiving than I can ever recall. With online shopping the norm, stores starting Black Friday sales on Thursday are less common.

 

[CdnCarrie]

There is no legal requirement that I am aware of to pay anything other than straight time on a holiday in the U.S. It is common practice, but not a legal issue. I worked in a salaried job for 16 years and there was no compensation financially for working a holiday. You got a comp day to use later if a holiday is one of your regular work days.
Far fewer businesses were open this Thanksgiving than I can ever recall. With online shopping the norm, stores starting Black Friday sales on Thursday are less common.

Wow that’s sad. Labour law here

 

[sasywtch]

There is no legal requirement that I am aware of to pay anything other than straight time on a holiday in the U.S. It is common practice, but not a legal issue. I worked in a salaried job for 16 years and there was no compensation financially for working a holiday. You got a comp day to use later if a holiday is one of your regular work days.
Far fewer businesses were open this Thanksgiving than I can ever recall. With online shopping the norm, stores starting Black Friday sales on Thursday are less common.

There is no California law or federal law that requires an employer to pay holiday pay. Honestly, the only one I know of is hospital workers (my ex DIL always works a holiday to get 1-1/2 pay). I think state workers would get overtime since they are technically getting paid again to work on a day they are already getting paid for (if that makes sense). Or you would get time in a half and then agreed upon another day off if I remember correctly which I think my ex use to do as a CHP

 

[tvguy]

Wow that’s sad. Labour law here

Until recently there was no paid sick time either. Then the state mandated 3 days sick time per year for full time employees. And next year it goes up to 5 days per year for full time employees.
We do have a law the required you get an unpaid meal break of at least 30 minutes if you work more than 6 hours a day. And that law specifies you HAVE to take it between 3 hours and 5 hours after you start your shift. I'm not a fan of that law because you can't waive a meal break. I always preferred to work 8 straight and go home sooner.