School Lunches

[mhsjax]

Do please show me when it was stated we should eat tons of carbs and how that relates to the "food pyramid"? You also know that the pyramid has since been replaced, right?

Why do you think kids need 12-14 grams of protein in one meal?

That is my point, Thank you for making it. It changes . And I did some looking up of my own. Baylor college of medicine had an article that said toddlers need 16 grams of protein a day, that CDC site you listed said kids 9-13 needed 34 grams a day. Last time I checked, 14 isn't half of 34. They probably aren't getting protein for breakfast, so this isn't that far off. They should get the other half for dinner or in snacks.

 

[skater]

I would only have a real problem with this if my son was not allowed to bring his own lunch. Other than that, the government and the schools that are part of it, will do what they want to and change their minds a few years later. We're the parents and need to remember that ultimately the buck stops with us. My son packs his own lunch and buys an occasional addition.

 

[Coconut36]

That is my point, Thank you for making it.

And your point would be what?

 

[cornflake]

We do agree on chicken nuggets, they shouldn't even be there. But I disagree on the carb thing. WE are not protein obsessed and all my Dr's and my DH's drs have stated that we are all eating for too many carbs. Protein fills you up, not carbs. I am not talking about stuffing yourself with protein, but I am of the exact opposite of you, I also believe that you are a vegetarian, so I believe you would be against any animal protein. It isn't the bad thing that it is made out to be. Chicken nuggets bad, lean protein good. And again I disagree about your cup of broccoli, carrots and rice and 2 nuggets being enough, yes they would be full for a while, but these kids need to stay full for longer than just a while. I have managed to raise 3 kids that aren't fat in the least, so I do have some first hand knowledge of what a kid needs and doesn't need in order to stay in the correct weight range.

Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I'm not a vegan.

As for meat, yes, I believe it absolutely is the "bad thing it's made out to be" it's dead, rotting flesh that no one needs to consume.

People do, and they're free to choose to; I'm not stopping anyone. However, it's neither needed nor more healthy than other options.

There are plenty of protein sources that do not involve meat and, again, Americans eat FAR too much protein, in general.

Broccoli and carrots and etc., do fill people up - they're root and cruciferous vegetables full of fibre. When you say the kids need to be full longer than just a while - this is what I was talking about above.

No, they don't need to be 'full' for a long time. At all. They need to not be hungry (those are two ENTIRELY different things), and it's lunch - how long a time are we talking? There are people in this thread saying their kids eat another full meal three hours after school lunch, have snacks two hours after, etc. There's no long time they need to be satisfied (not kept full) by lunch, and broccoli and carrots and grain and etc., will certainly do that and more.

 

[skater]

Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I'm not a vegan.

As for meat, yes, I believe it absolutely is the "bad thing it's made out to be" it's dead, rotting flesh that no one needs to consume.

People do, and they're free to choose to; I'm not stopping anyone. However, it's neither needed nor more healthy than other options.

There are plenty of protein sources that do not involve meat and, again, Americans eat FAR too much protein, in general.

Broccoli and carrots and etc., do fill people up - they're root and cruciferous vegetables full of fibre. When you say the kids need to be full longer than just a while - this is what I was talking about above.

No, they don't need to be 'full' for a long time. At all. They need to not be hungry (those are two ENTIRELY different things), and it's lunch - how long a time are we talking? There are people in this thread saying their kids eat another full meal three hours after school lunch, have snacks two hours after, etc. There's no long time they need to be satisfied (not kept full) by lunch, and broccoli and carrots and grain and etc., will certainly do that and more.

I will tell you that my son needs and burns a lot of calories. Sometimes there are many hours between lunch and dinner if he has activities after school and he needs to be properly fueled. But as the parent, I know its my job and not the school system's to fuel him.

 

[mhsjax]

And your point would be what?

Well crap the rest didn't post. My point is it changes, they don't know what is best. Also Baylor College of Medicine says that toddlers need approx 16 grams each day. The site you listed says that 9-13 year olds need 34 grams. Last time I checked 12 grams of protein wasn't half of 34. They probably don't get any at breakfast, so less than half at lunch isn't that far off as far as I am concerned. They should be getting the rest for snack and/or dinner.

 

[cornflake]

I will tell you that my son needs and burns a lot of calories. Sometimes there are many hours between lunch and dinner if he has activities after school and he needs to be properly fueled. But as the parent, I know its my job and not the school system's to fuel him.

Sure, and some kids run from school to fencing practice or whatever, and don't get home until dinner. As you say, that's the individual deal, not the school's to assume every kid needs more than 1/3 of the day's calories from lunch, which is what the new menus are meant to provide.

If a kid is in that position, they should pack something to eat. Many of the people in the thread, however, have said their kids eat lunch at school and come home and eat three hours later.

 

[cornflake]

Well crap the rest didn't post. My point is it changes, they don't know what is best. Also Baylor College of Medicine says that toddlers need approx 16 grams each day. The site you listed says that 9-13 year olds need 34 grams. Last time I checked 12 grams of protein wasn't half of 34. They probably don't get any at breakfast, so less than half at lunch isn't that far off as far as I am concerned. They should be getting the rest for snack and/or dinner.

Ok, if someone actually ate something for breakfast, how would they manage to do that without getting ANY protein, exactly?! Protein is in pretty much everything - :whisper even broccoli (which, just btw, has a ton of protein ).

 

[ccgirl]

And your opinion on that is based on what exactly? Because you just think it is so or you have actual data that shows 4 is necessary vs 2.

It's baked, white meat chicken nuggets that I was looking at.

Here is an example that shows you protein for 4 breaded, white meat chicken nuggets: http://www.fosterfarms.com/products/product.asp?productcode=90969

13 grams of protein in those 4 nuggets and that is almost 1/2 the DAILY needs for kids 8-13. Then factor in the 160 calories and 80 fat calories and 9 grams of fat.

I agree with cornflake in regards to the whole protein obsession thing. People eat way more than is necessary and think way more is necessary than really is.

As far as what I am basing my opinion on it could my nutrition science degree. As I mentioned in my post, it depends on what kind of chicken nuggets they are. The chicken nuggets I was using had 11g in 4 nugggets. If 10 - 35% of your daily calories should come from protein and the "average" girl between 9 and 13 should comsume 1600 to 2000 calories a day, that should mean that about 450 calories should come from protein.

Bottom line, I think the schools are on the right train of thought but they definitely have more room to grow. No more posting on this thread for me.

 

[mhsjax]

Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I'm not a vegan.

As for meat, yes, I believe it absolutely is the "bad thing it's made out to be" it's dead, rotting flesh that no one needs to consume.

People do, and they're free to choose to; I'm not stopping anyone. However, it's neither needed nor more healthy than other options.

There are plenty of protein sources that do not involve meat and, again, Americans eat FAR too much protein, in general.

Broccoli and carrots and etc., do fill people up - they're root and cruciferous vegetables full of fibre. When you say the kids need to be full longer than just a while - this is what I was talking about above.

No, they don't need to be 'full' for a long time. At all. They need to not be hungry (those are two ENTIRELY different things), and it's lunch - how long a time are we talking? There are people in this thread saying their kids eat another full meal three hours after school lunch, have snacks two hours after, etc. There's no long time they need to be satisfied (not kept full) by lunch, and broccoli and carrots and grain and etc., will certainly do that and more.

We will ave to disagree, I disagree with being a vegetarian or vegan. However I also love my veggies and sorry but carrots and broccoli will not fill you up. I know I eat them. My kids can't do the sports they do and eat little veggies and be expected to perform. My child does eat a sandwich about 3 hours after school, but she then goes to 2 hours of very intense cheer practice and then she eats again. Her weight is fine and her Dr has no problem with it. My DS, eats non stop, he is extremely healthy, according to his blood work and is 5"10 and has a 31 inch waste. I don't have a problem with kids eating veggies, I am in the same boat that thinks parents give their kids way too much junk, but I don't think that 2 chicken nuggets will cut it for protein.

I do agree that the school did serve junk, it still serves junk. they are trying to clean it up, but they still serve the crap.

 

[mhsjax]

Ok, if someone actually ate something for breakfast, how would they manage to do that without getting ANY protein, exactly?! Protein is in pretty much everything - :whisper even broccoli (which, just btw, has a ton of protein ).

Oh GOD, I love broccoli, but please not for breakfast. take my son, he eats dry cereal, can't have milk. Dry cheerios have 2 grams, my DS's cereal has 1 gram, although he does have milk with his. These 1 or 2 grams, really don't cut into the daily allowance. Plus it also depends on the activities you child is doing. AT 6 in the am, getting them to eat anything is a chore. Who can eat at 6 am. YUCK. And again, like the food pyramid or anything else, it is all in who or what you believe or read. I saw several things that said it had lots of protein, I also saw lots of reports that sadi it wasn't complete protein. AS you can guess vegetarian sites said it was fine, other sites said it wasn't complete. My point again, I believe NOTHING.

 

[cornflake]

We will ave to disagree, I disagree with being a vegetarian or vegan. However I also love my veggies and sorry but carrots and broccoli will not fill you up. I know I eat them. My kids can't do the sports they do and eat little veggies and be expected to perform. My child does eat a sandwich about 3 hours after school, but she then goes to 2 hours of very intense cheer practice and then she eats again. Her weight is fine and her Dr has no problem with it. My DS, eats non stop, he is extremely healthy, according to his blood work and is 5"10 and has a 31 inch waste. I don't have a problem with kids eating veggies, I am in the same boat that thinks parents give their kids way too much junk, but I don't think that 2 chicken nuggets will cut it for protein.

I do agree that the school did serve junk, it still serves junk. they are trying to clean it up, but they still serve the crap.

There are plenty of professional (including in the NHL, NFL, etc.) and elite-level athletes (there were plenty on display at the Olympics) who are vegetarians and even vegans. They seem to do just fine.

 

[Coconut36]

That is my point, Thank you for making it. It changes . And I did some looking up of my own. Baylor college of medicine had an article that said toddlers need 16 grams of protein a day, that CDC site you listed said kids 9-13 needed 34 grams a day. Last time I checked, 14 isn't half of 34. They probably aren't getting protein for breakfast, so this isn't that far off. They should get the other half for dinner or in snacks.

I have no idea what you are trying to say in regards to the bold part as you are comparing toddlers and kids 9-13

I don't recall where I said 1/2..I said ALMOST 1/2. So you are saying the school should feed children (calories, protein..etc) based on the assumption they have received no food at home and include what could be missing in their lunch? That a bit ridiculous especially when you consider that the children who don't get to eat at home would be on free/reduced and that includes breakfast..so they are eating breakfast and they are getting appropriate protein there too. If kids are skipping breakfast at home prior to the lunch the school can't base menus and protein and caloric intake on that assumption as it leads to too much food, too many calories..etc being eaten.

As for the changes..yes sometimes stuff does change..how crazy they would increase veggies and fruit suggested intakes and remove fats completely..how is that crazy or bad? Medical suggestions also change all the time..does that mean they are somehow useless or wrong? As we learn more we adapt and make the appropriate change.

A simple summary of the changes between my pyramid and my plate..the change to a plate was done to make it easier to see/understand visually..this thread illustrates that people clearly don't understand portion size so that's an easy way to represent it.

To sum things up, they increased their recommendations for fruits, vegetables and protein, while decreasing their recommendations for grains and eliminated fats and sweets.

 

[cornflake]

Also, not for nothing but the repeated thing about broccoli and carrots won't 'fill you up' and you know because you eat them - I mean, do you think the hundreds of millions of vegetarians and vegans in the world are just wandering around perpetually hungry?

 

[mhsjax]

I have no idea what you are trying to say in regards to the bold part as you are comparing toddlers and kids 9-13

I don't recall where I said 1/2..I said ALMOST 1/2. So you are saying the school should feed children (calories, protein..etc) based on the assumption they have received no food at home and include what could be missing in their lunch? That a bit ridiculous especially when you consider that the children who don't get to eat at home would be on free/reduced and that includes breakfast..so they are eating breakfast and they are getting appropriate protein there too. If kids are skipping breakfast at home prior to the lunch the school can't base menus and protein and caloric intake on that assumption as it leads to too much food, too many calories..etc being eaten.

As for the changes..yes sometimes stuff does change..how crazy they would increase veggies and fruit suggested intakes and remove fats completely..how is that crazy or bad? Medical suggestions also change all the time..does that mean they are somehow useless or wrong? As we learn more we adapt and make the appropriate change.

A simple summary of the changes between my pyramid and my plate..the change to a plate was done to make it easier to see/understand visually..this thread illustrates that people clearly don't understand portion size so that's an easy way to represent it.

I was just listing the values for these ages, I think you know that. Almost half or half, really it doesn't matter. I won't change your mind and that is fine, Oh and your comment about kids that don't eat breakfast being the ones that would get free or reduced lunch so they would be getting breakfast, that is news to me. My kids don't always eat and lots of their friends don't either, they don't want to eat that early.

 

[mhsjax]

Also, not for nothing but the repeated thing about broccoli and carrots won't 'fill you up' and you know because you eat them - I mean, do you think the hundreds of millions of vegetarians and vegans in the world are just wandering around perpetually hungry?

No. Aare you saying that broccoli and carrots are all you guys eat?

 

[luvsJack]

1. Don't vegetarians get protein from other foods besides meat? Do your menus not include beans, peanut butter,etc. to get the protein?

2. The remark about schools feeding students on the assumption that they aren't getting what they need at home. Well, I can tell you that that is the way child care centers are expected to feed their children. Childcare centers normally serve breakfast, lunch and snack each day. The regulations require that those 3 meals cover everything a child needs nutrionally in a day.

Many kids do not eat breakfast OR they are eating breakfast at school. So, in reality, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think that lunch could include close to half of what is required for the day without them getting "too much".

And, btw, those nutrional standards are GUIDELINES. Every person under the sun does not have the same nutrional needs as every other human their age. It is very dependent on activity level, metabolism, etc. School lunches should not be at the minimum of those guidlines but at least in the middle and there should be options for those that have a need for more protein or whatever.

And cornflake, yes, vegetables will fill you up. But a kid that needs to stay satisfied from 11-after 4 or 5, will stay satisfied longer by having enough protein and I just don't think 2 chicken nuggets will do it.

And besides, if we want health lunch, how about a nice grilled chicken salad INSTEAD of chicken nuggets?

 

[luvsJack]

I was just listing the values for these ages, I think you know that. Almost half or half, really it doesn't matter. I won't change your mind and that is fine, Oh and your comment about kids that don't eat breakfast being the ones that would get free or reduced lunch so they would be getting breakfast, that is news to me. My kids don't always eat and lots of their friends don't either, they don't want to eat that early.

DD doesn't eat breakfast either and no free lunch here. She doesn't eat it because she doesn't want anything that early. Sometimes she takes a cereal bar to have later.

 

[Coconut36]

I was just listing the values for these ages, I think you know that. Almost half or half, really it doesn't matter. I won't change your mind and that is fine, Oh and your comment about kids that don't eat breakfast being the ones that would get free or reduced lunch so they would be getting breakfast, that is news to me. My kids don't always eat and lots of their friends don't either, they don't want to eat that early.

No I don't know that as your intent was not remotely clear to me and still really isn't. What you posted was not horribly out of line with what I posted from the CDC..a few grams difference.

I wasn't talking about kids who choose not to eat and I didn't think you were either. If a child decides to skip a meal the school is not responsible for feeding everyone with the assumption that all have not eaten breakfast.

I thought you were referencing children who get most of their food from school....as in kids who can NOT eat at home and those kids would be on the free/reduced program (most likely..again this is lack of ability to eat at home..not choice to skip a meal) and would have the option of eating breakfast at school for free/reduced cost just like lunch.

I find it very odd to think that the school should feed kids lunch assuming that is their only meal of the day and pack it full of as much as they can...that's not necessary or healthy. If they choose to skip breakfast that is their choice and they have to deal with the ramifications of it (less calories per day, not enough protein or fruit/veggies for the day, feeling extremely hungry by lunch time, not being able to "fill up" on lunch because they skipped the previous meal...etc)..the school isn't responsible to feed the entire student body based on that possibility (just as they shouldn't feed all kids the amount of protein/calories that the star football player needs either).

 

[mhsjax]

No I don't know that as your intent was not remotely clear to me and still really isn't. What you posted was not horribly out of line with what I posted from the CDC..a few grams difference.

I wasn't talking about kids who choose not to eat and I didn't think you were either. If a child decides to skip a meal the school is not responsible for feeding everyone with the assumption that all have not eaten breakfast. I thought you were referencing children who get most of their food from school....as in kids who can NOT eat at home and those kids would be on the free/reduced program and would have the option of eating breakfast at school. I find it very odd to think that the school should feed kids lunch assuming that is their only meal of the day and pack it full of as much as they can...that's not necessary or healthy. If they choose to skip breakfast that is their choice and they have to deal with the ramifications of it (less calories per day, not enough protein or fruit/veggies for the day...etc)..the school isn't responsible to feed the entire student body based on that possibility (just as they shouldn't feed all kids the amount of protein/calories that the star football player needs either).

You read way too much into what I say. I never said the school was responsible. I think you are way too obsessed with this protein thing. Oh and sorry but I didn't know that 4-5 chicken nuggets was packing it as full as they can. That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Ok gotta go, dinner time is approaching and I have to go to the store and get food, oh it won't be chicken nuggets, in case you were wondering.