school field trip and epi-pen question

[turkeymama]

As a former teacher I was required to be trained in how to adminsiter an epi-pen. I am sorry that your district/state does not allow children to carry their own and that they don't require teachers to be trained in what is really a simple task (we had blank epi-pens and had to practice on ourselves and on others).

I think that if you are required to attend a field trip for the purpose of being there to administer medication, that should be your sole purpose. Others here will disagree with me, but you were told that you must accompany your child because in an emergency you will need to administer meciation. If a teacher can't do that, and the school nurse obviously can't attend field trips, then let that be your purpose. It doesn't sound like the teacher was thinking "Oh great! I'll have at least one chaperone each time!" If you had to administer an epi-pen to your child, you would also be going right to a hospital and thus leaving the field trip. Have a chat with the teacher and explain that to him/her, see what type of solution you can come up with together. I am sure they will understand and will work with you.

I would also contact your representatives! An epi-pen on the other side of the building is not acceptable! If a person, child or adult, needs that medication every second counts. Anaphlyactic shock is not something I wish upon anyone. I also second getting a 504 Plan for your child. It is common for a child with food allergies to have one where I used to teach.

Best of luck to you! Two of my best friends have children with severe food allergies. It is stressful when they have reactions, need the epi-pen, and have gone to the hospital.

Yep, everything you said, especially the bolded part.

 

[BelleWDW]

When my dd was in this teachers class they went on 11 field trips.

.

Where the heck do they go? really?
I can't think of 11 places that would be educational in my mid sized city?
What grade is this?
I have NEVER heard of this many field trips! crazy!

 

[turkeymama]

Thanks, and it will all work out, I do not plan on doing anything out of anger and I don't want it to be uncomfortable for anyone especially ds. I admit that I let my emotions get the better of me and was ready to lash out at the school, but I know thats not really the right thing to do.
Honestly it has just been one of those days, I had heard back from the nurse at ds's allergist and he won't sign permission for ds to self administer his epipen (not surprised) or his inhaler, which I couldn't believe. He is allowed to self carry in our state but since the doc won't sign that form, he has to leave that at the nurses office too. I think when he brought the note home about the field trips, it was just the last straw in dealing with this whole allergy and school policy.

I understand. I can be emotional at times when dealing with stuff like this. My daughter has food allergies as well and sometimes I just want to shake people and say "Don't you understand?" But then I take a deep breath, step back and acknowledge that most people don't understand unless food allergies have personally affected them or someone close to them. You've gotten some good advice so I won't add anything except to say, hang in there. Stay vigilant.

 

[princessmom29]

Sorry you had a tough day, but if the doc won't sign off on the self carry there has to be what he/she feels is a good reason. I woudl not trust a small child to self adminster and inhaler especially because an overdose could cause cardiac arrest. The epipen can also cause a cardiac arrest if administered when there is no allergic reaction. I wouldn't trust a small child to make that kind of life or death decision. Perhaps the doc was trying to protect your child from potentally disaterous consequences. It is a hard line to walk. There is danger from the allergy, but also danger from improperly administered meds. Seems liek he/she is making a judgement call here. If you don't thinjk he made the right one mabye get a second opinion?

 

[Leajess99]

Our teachers actually keep the epi-pens in the class and take them on the trips with them. It woud have sucked if the children with allergies to food and nuts would be required to go on the field trip since in my dd's class last year there were 6 or 8 children belonging to other teachers and a few of those had the allergies. I guess our school would have had to have had a ton of subs so those teachers could accompany their kids on the field trips.

OP, I am sorry for the frustrating situation. I do know that 7 years ago one of the kids in my middle child's preschool class had a brother with insulin dependent diabetes and his parents had to take time away from work to come to school and give the child his meds. That was so wrong because here this family was trying to mae ends meet and having to leave work (risking their jobs) to give the child his insulin which the school should have been trained to do.

 

[luvmy3]

As a former teacher I was required to be trained in how to adminsiter an epi-pen. I am sorry that your district/state does not allow children to carry their own and that they don't require teachers to be trained in what is really a simple task (we had blank epi-pens and had to practice on ourselves and on others).

I think that if you are required to attend a field trip for the purpose of being there to administer medication, that should be your sole purpose. Others here will disagree with me, but you were told that you must accompany your child because in an emergency you will need to administer meciation. If a teacher can't do that, and the school nurse obviously can't attend field trips, then let that be your purpose. It doesn't sound like the teacher was thinking "Oh great! I'll have at least one chaperone each time!" If you had to administer an epi-pen to your child, you would also be going right to a hospital and thus leaving the field trip. Have a chat with the teacher and explain that to him/her, see what type of solution you can come up with together. I am sure they will understand and will work with you.

I would also contact your representatives! An epi-pen on the other side of the building is not acceptable! If a person, child or adult, needs that medication every second counts. Anaphlyactic shock is not something I wish upon anyone. I also second getting a 504 Plan for your child. It is common for a child with food allergies to have one where I used to teach.

Best of luck to you! Two of my best friends have children with severe food allergies. It is stressful when they have reactions, need the epi-pen, and have gone to the hospital.

You bring up an excellent point about having to leave after the epipen is given. I guess I need to make sure that the teacher is fully aware of this. I assume that they must have a certain number adults per children, so if I ever had to leave that would leave them with a liability issue.
You will all be glad to know that I sent in ds's permission slip, listing myself as *must chaperone due to LTA*. I will be sending her an email this afternoon too.

Where the heck do they go? really?
I can't think of 11 places that would be educational in my mid sized city?
What grade is this?
I have NEVER heard of this many field trips! crazy!

You're telling me. Its 4th grade and ds's teacher has a few connections so they go the most places of all the grades. Our school also travels outside our city, they charter tour buses for long trips. Of course this years budget may limit us this, but at our parents night last week she reminded us that they do *alot* of trips.

Sorry you had a tough day, but if the doc won't sign off on the self carry there has to be what he/she feels is a good reason. I woudl not trust a small child to self adminster and inhaler especially because an overdose could cause cardiac arrest. The epipen can also cause a cardiac arrest if administered when there is no allergic reaction. I wouldn't trust a small child to make that kind of life or death decision. Perhaps the doc was trying to protect your child from potentally disaterous consequences. It is a hard line to walk. There is danger from the allergy, but also danger from improperly administered meds. Seems liek he/she is making a judgement call here. If you don't thinjk he made the right one mabye get a second opinion?

My ds is almost 9 years old and has been self administering his inhaler for a couple years. We made sure that he is fully aware on how and when to use it because I or dh are not with him 24/7. He needs to know what to do if he needs it. The nurse said that 8 is too young, but 10 would be okay. Explaining to her that he is 1 month shy of 9 didn't make a difference. He has a check in Dec, and I will discuss it with his allergist, and maybe ds can demonstrate that he knows exactly what to do. I resepect him, he is the best doctor and I wish he was a general practioner because I would love to have him as our family doc. I just think he's out of touch with our reality, I don't think you can just judge ds's ability just because he isn't 10 yet.
The epipen is a different matter, he does know how to use it but has never had to. My only issue with him not being able to carry it, is that one can't be stored in his classroom. If he needs it, it would be locked up on the other side of the school, on another floor. There is only 1 person in the entire school that is allowed to administer it, thats just insane and dangerous to any child that has one.

 

[princessmom29]

You bring up an excellent point about having to leave after the epipen is given. I guess I need to make sure that the teacher is fully aware of this. I assume that they must have a certain number adults per children, so if I ever had to leave that would leave them with a liability issue.
You will all be glad to know that I sent in ds's permission slip, listing myself as *must chaperone due to LTA*. I will be sending her an email this afternoon too.



You're telling me. Its 4th grade and ds's teacher has a few connections so they go the most places of all the grades. Our school also travels outside our city, they charter tour buses for long trips. Of course this years budget may limit us this, but at our parents night last week she reminded us that they do *alot* of trips.




My ds is almost 9 years old and has been self administering his inhaler for a couple years. We made sure that he is fully aware on how and when to use it because I or dh are not with him 24/7. He needs to know what to do if he needs it. The nurse said that 8 is too young, but 10 would be okay. Explaining to her that he is 1 month shy of 9 didn't make a difference. He has a check in Dec, and I will discuss it with his allergist, and maybe ds can demonstrate that he knows exactly what to do. I resepect him, he is the best doctor and I wish he was a general practioner because I would love to have him as our family doc. I just think he's out of touch with our reality, I don't think you can just judge ds's ability just because he isn't 10 yet.
The epipen is a different matter, he does know how to use it but has never had to. My only issue with him not being able to carry it, is that one can't be stored in his classroom. If he needs it, it would be locked up on the other side of the school, on another floor. There is only 1 person in the entire school that is allowed to administer it, thats just insane and dangerous to any child that has one.

You are right.The classroom teacher needs to be trained to administer the epipen. I understand that the school is trying to cover itself legally by only allowing a medical professional to do it, but they are simple to use, and it could make all the difference having it in the classroom.

 

[WantToGoNow]

Anytime our school takes kids on field trips where there is a child prescribed an EpiPen, the nurse goes along on the trip. She has called me personally before each trip to discuss where they are going and anything that could be of danger and I'm guessing she does this with the other children as well. Now at school, my son's Epi is in the office, which is down 2 flights of stairs this year - the last 3 years it was just down a hall and around a corner. He is allowed to keep his inhaler with him but all Epi's stay on a specific shelf in the office with the kids names written on the end of the box for easy access. They are allowed to keep them with them only when they are capable of self-injecting - which our pediatrician said was not yet (3rd grade) because most 8 y/o's would die before they would stick a needle in their leg.

 

[jscott27]

but if the doc won't sign off on the self carry there has to be what he/she feels is a good reason.

You need to re-read the original post. The school is the issue, not the doctor.

The epipen can also cause a cardiac arrest if administered when there is no allergic reaction.

This is false and contrary to the advise of two allergists that we have spoken to. Both allergists point out that giving epi is not at all life threatening for young children, and it is far better to give the medicine than to delay and allow things to get out of hand, and one of the allergists even quoted statistics about people who die because epi wasn't administered when it was available. The AAAAI has a position paper on their web site saying basically the same thing. I would post the link, but I don't have enough posts, yet.

To the OP:
I would look into forcing your school to do a 504 and do a better job of handling food allergies. Epipens should travel with children when they go on field trips, and teachers and other adults should be trained in their use.

Our DS is allergic to milk, eggs and tree nuts, and his epis are kept in the school office (we don't have an issue with this). Teachers / peripros are trained in the use of epis, and we have spoken with them on how to react if our DS has an allergic reaction. There are also epis kept on each of his buses, and the district made sure that drivers on both buses are trained in their use.

Best of luck.

 

[luvmy3]

You need to re-read the original post. The school is the issue, not the doctor.



This is false and contrary to the advise of two allergists that we have spoken to. Both allergists point out that giving epi is not at all life threatening for young children, and it is far better to give the medicine than to delay and allow things to get out of hand, and one of the allergists even quoted statistics about people who die because epi wasn't administered when it was available. The AAAAI has a position paper on their web site saying basically the same thing. I would post the link, but I don't have enough posts, yet.

To the OP:
I would look into forcing your school to do a 504 and do a better job of handling food allergies. Epipens should travel with children when they go on field trips, and teachers and other adults should be trained in their use.

Our DS is allergic to milk, eggs and tree nuts, and his epis are kept in the school office (we don't have an issue with this). Teachers / peripros are trained in the use of epis, and we have spoken with them on how to react if our DS has an allergic reaction. There are also epis kept on each of his buses, and the district made sure that drivers on both buses are trained in their use.

Best of luck.

I have no idea what this is, is this something that is usually required for students with epipens?

Oh, and I did post that his allergist won't sign permission for ds to self administer his epi and his inhaler, that is what the pp was talking about in her post.
Of course, it never occured to me that he has been on fild trips in the past without his inhaler, which IMHO would be more likely needed than the epipen. I carry an inhaler with me, but I didn't chaperone all his past trips. Wonder why it wasn't a requirement for me to be there because of that

 

[dijid]

My ds is almost 9 years old and has been self administering his inhaler for a couple years. We made sure that he is fully aware on how and when to use it because I or dh are not with him 24/7. He needs to know what to do if he needs it. The nurse said that 8 is too young, but 10 would be okay.

I'm honestly shocked by this. When my DS turned 5 and was going to be entering K, the staff at his allergist's worked with DS so that he could self-administer his inhaler (with spacer). Their policy is that every child in school needs to be able to self administer their own rescue meds. There is no magic age for them, instead, they provide the training until the child is competent. Perhaps you can suggest this to your doc.

 

[micheleq]

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html

A 504 plan is named for Section 504 of IDEA. It's a federal law that prevents discrimination against students in schools that are federally funded (essentially all public schools). It is common for a student with allergies to have a simple 504 plan that outlines how the school will deal with the allergy and keep your child safe while allowing them to fully participate in all school activities, including field trips.

The link above has a great FAQ section. Hope this helps!

PS -- don't be freaked out when you read it -- it sounds like it's only for students with special needs, but your child does have a special need in this case. 504's are used for very simple modifcations all the time, I've seen this many times before. And it's federal law, not open to interpretation state-by-state.

 

[luvmy3]

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html

A 504 plan is named for Section 504 of IDEA. It's a federal law that prevents discrimination against students in schools that are federally funded (essentially all public schools). It is common for a student with allergies to have a simple 504 plan that outlines how the school will deal with the allergy and keep your child safe while allowing them to fully participate in all school activities, including field trips.

The link above has a great FAQ section. Hope this helps!

Thanks so much!!

 

[EnchantedPrincess]

I am so sorry that you are having such a hard time with this. My dd also have severe tree nuts/peanuts and wheat allergy, and also has an epipen. All her teachers are required to learn how to administer the epipen, and I have never been told that I have to chaperone her field trip because of her allergy. There will be a school nurse on field trips with her whenever possible, and if the nurse is not going to be present during the field trips, the teachers are required to take the epipen with them. I hope everything works out for you.

 

[princessmom29]

You need to re-read the original post. The school is the issue, not the doctor.



This is false and contrary to the advise of two allergists that we have spoken to. Both allergists point out that giving epi is not at all life threatening for young children, and it is far better to give the medicine than to delay and allow things to get out of hand, and one of the allergists even quoted statistics about people who die because epi wasn't administered when it was available. The AAAAI has a position paper on their web site saying basically the same thing. I would post the link, but I don't have enough posts, yet.

To the OP:
I would look into forcing your school to do a 504 and do a better job of handling food allergies. Epipens should travel with children when they go on field trips, and teachers and other adults should be trained in their use.

Our DS is allergic to milk, eggs and tree nuts, and his epis are kept in the school office (we don't have an issue with this). Teachers / peripros are trained in the use of epis, and we have spoken with them on how to react if our DS has an allergic reaction. There are also epis kept on each of his buses, and the district made sure that drivers on both buses are trained in their use.

Best of luck.

SHe reffered to her doctor and the issues there in a subsequent post. That is the one I was addressing. My husband has an epi and we were advised that although small, there is arisk of arrest if epi is given when not needed. We have a small child, and I asked about that too. We were told the risk would be higher with her than with DH. I have read the studies. It is medical fact, and there have been recorded cases of epi hyperstimulating the heart and causing and arrest.

 

[bumbershoot]

If he needs it, it would be locked up on the other side of the school, on another floor. There is only 1 person in the entire school that is allowed to administer it, thats just insane and dangerous to any child that has one.

Any chance of changing schools? That seems so unsafe it's ridiculous. What if that one person quits? Has a migraine and goes home on the one day your son runs across something? Is sick?

This is false and contrary to the advise of two allergists that we have spoken to. Both allergists point out that giving epi is not at all life threatening for young children...

That's just crazy, and I'd have to fire those allergists, b/c they aren't even reading the inserts of the things they prescribe. Epinephrine is not benign. It has specific effects on the body, whether it's a child or adult, and cardiac effects can happen. It impacts the nervous system, and that can indeed cause issues.

Now, is the small risk of that worth it if there's anaphylaxis happening? Sure. Is it necessarily benign? No.

 

[princessmom29]

Any chance of changing schools? That seems so unsafe it's ridiculous. What if that one person quits? Has a migraine and goes home on the one day your son runs across something? Is sick?



That's just crazy, and I'd have to fire those allergists, b/c they aren't even reading the inserts of the things they prescribe. Epinephrine is not benign. It has specific effects on the body, whether it's a child or adult, and cardiac effects can happen. It impacts the nervous system, and that can indeed cause issues.

Now, is the small risk of that worth it if there's anaphylaxis happening? Sure. Is it necessarily benign? No.

you are correct, and form what I have read the risk is significantly higher when there is no histamine in the system form an allergic reaction. The adrenaline generated has nothing to "work against" so it is like having a jolt of extra adrenaline all at once.

 

[luvmy3]

Any chance of changing schools? That seems so unsafe it's ridiculous. What if that one person quits? Has a migraine and goes home on the one day your son runs across something? Is sick?

I have no idea what happens if the nurse goes home sick. There is another one who comes in from time to time, I believe she floats around the district on an as needed basis.
Changing districts really isn't an option for us, and instead of wasting energy being frustrated about what I can't do, maybe I can use it to change things. At some point I would like to set up something to get all the LTA parents together to see if we can advocate change in our district. I have so much research do to first about our state laws, district policy and the allergies themselves before I could start.

 

[jscott27]

That's just crazy, and I'd have to fire those allergists, b/c they aren't even reading the inserts of the things they prescribe. Epinephrine is not benign.

I never claimed it was, and I never said that the doctors said to use it on a whim. The rate of complications in a healthy child (i.e. no heart issues) is extremely small when given the proper dosage, and the pediactric and allergy doctors associations both encourage having children carry their epipens on them.

My problem was with the statement "The epipen can also cause a cardiac arrest if administered when there is no allergic reaction". It is no more likely to cause cardiac arrest when adminstered with no allergic reaction than it is when administered with an allergic reaction.

 

[princessmom29]

I never claimed it was, and I never said that the doctors said to use it on a whim. The rate of complications in a healthy child (i.e. no heart issues) is extremely small when given the proper dosage, and the pediactric and allergy doctors associations both encourage having children carry their epipens on them.

My problem was with the statement "The epipen can also cause a cardiac arrest if administered when there is no allergic reaction". It is no more likely to cause cardiac arrest when adminstered with no allergic reaction than it is when administered with an allergic reaction.

yes it is. epi is synthetic adrenaline. When an alleric reaction is in progress the body releases histamine into the blood stream. Massive amounts in a life threatening reaction. This is what causes the inflamation and swelling. The synthetic adrenaline in the body works to counteract the affects of the histamines, and halt the reaction. When there is not histamine in the blood stream the synthetic adrenaline performs its usual function. Amoung other things, it increases heart rate and blood pressure. Sometimes so much so that it is fatal. I am a biochemist. I have studied the biochemical pathways involved and read the literature. Do your research. Unecessary epi IS a danger and IS more likley to cause cardiac death that properly used epi. Epi is also used in the case of cardiac arrest to stimulate the heart. Just because your allergist didn't tell you that doesn't mean it is not true.