Saratoga Springs per point cost

[albertotahiti]

Does anyone know why Saratoga Springs per point cost is so reasonable? Aside from Vero Beach or Hilton Head, it's probably one of the most desirable DVC properties. Is it just not a great place to stay, location, etc.?

Any opinions would be welcomed.

Thanks,
Brett

 

[juncker]

I think that it is simply because it is such a large resort. There must be a gazillion points allocated. Simple supply and demand. We love the resort.

I also think that the maint. fees are reasonable, and with the 2054 end date, it makes for a better value than other resorts. Being able to book the THVs is a bonus too.

 

[albertotahiti]

I think that it is simply because it is such a large resort. There must be a gazillion points allocated. Simple supply and demand. We love the resort.

I also think that the maint. fees are reasonable, and with the 2054 end date, it makes for a better value than other resorts. Being able to book the THVs is a bonus too.

Makes sense to me! Thanks for the response. Oh, by the way, could you answer a couple of things for me? What does IMHO mean? Are the sofabeds comfy in Saratoga Springs? Have you had any issues with booking at another resort with the 7 month window? Did you go direct through Disney or did you go the resale route? What buildings at Saratoga Springs have the best views of Downtown Disney?

 

[DMKEDM]

What does IMHO mean?
In my humble opinion

Are the sofabeds comfy in Saratoga Springs?
We think so...

Have you had any issues with booking at another resort with the 7 month window?
Yes. There are times of the year (holidays, for example) when DVC resorts book up very quickly and for those times of year the 11-month window is if not necessary, at least a really good advantage to have! Also, there are certain types of accommodations that are more readily available at 11 months than at 7 months (e.g., grand villas, AKL concierge & value, Boardwalk standard view). SSR is usually the last resort w/availability--probably because it's so big (1000+ villas, w/the next biggest (OKW) having "only" 700+ villas), but there are only a small number (60, I think) treehouse villas available--those will be easiest to book at 11 months, especially during busy seasons.

Did you go direct through Disney or did you go the resale route?
We bought direct from Disney, six years ago (when points, after incentives, were $86)...it appears that right now resale SSR contracts are among the best values out there...

What buildings at Saratoga Springs have the best views of Downtown Disney
Congress Park is best for DTD views...there are some West Side DTD views from Grandstand...

Good luck!

 

[OKW Lover]

Does anyone know why Saratoga Springs per point cost is so reasonable? Aside from Vero Beach or Hilton Head, it's probably one of the most desirable DVC properties. Is it just not a great place to stay, location, etc.?

Not sure what criteria you are using to rate SSR as one of the most desirable DVC properties.

Certainly each has its fans, but SSR seems to be kind of out of the way but doesn't have OKW's advantage of being spread out (less crowded) and larger rooms. BCV & BWV have a great location in walking distance to two different theme parks. AKV have a very unique advantage with the animals outside your window. BLT is very convenient to the MK. Perhaps VWL might be at a disadvantage in convenience.

 

[disneynutz]

I expect Disney to modify the 7 month booking rules. Disney wants people to buy direct and they seem to only want to sell new resorts. When someone buys SSR resale then books at BLT or AKV at 7 months, there isn't an incentive for anyone to buy from Disney.

Time will tell, but some owners who bought on the cheap may be in for a real shock someday.

Bill

 

[albertotahiti]

I expect Disney to modify the 7 month booking rules. Disney wants people to buy direct and they seem to only want to sell new resorts. When someone buys SSR resale then books at BLT or AKV at 7 months, there isn't an incentive for anyone to buy from Disney.

Time will tell, but some owners who bought on the cheap may be in for a real shock someday.

Bill

But wouldn't you think that Disney would "grandfather" in those folks who bought "on the cheap"? If they didn't, I would imagine alot of lawsuits to follow.

 

[albertotahiti]

Not sure what criteria you are using to rate SSR as one of the most desirable DVC properties.

Certainly each has its fans, but SSR seems to be kind of out of the way but doesn't have OKW's advantage of being spread out (less crowded) and larger rooms. BCV & BWV have a great location in walking distance to two different theme parks. AKV have a very unique advantage with the animals outside your window. BLT is very convenient to the MK. Perhaps VWL might be at a disadvantage in convenience.

I was going by price per point and mainteance fees and expiration date. There are some pretty good deals out there with Saratoga Springs right now.

 

[sweetdana]

I think an easy fix would be to add 5 points a night to the THV that book 11 months out and lower the points for a studio or 1 bedroom 1-2 points per night. Or add in a view catagory, (IE pool or DTD view is 1-2 points more per night) to get the standard another 1-2 points less. Having an 11 point studio night in Aug be a 9 point and a 21 point become an 18 point 1 bedroom would make a big diff.


I love SSR, but I will not pay 11 points a night at SSR and end up in Car. or Padd loc, when I can pay 10 points a night at AK standard, or 9 points a night at BW stand rooms.

If it was the same or less I would pick it over either of these resorts. Leaving a BWV room open for someone else.. More though I cannot justify it when there is something else open at 7 months. ..and I truly love SSR.

 

[OKW Lover]

I was going by price per point and mainteance fees and expiration date. There are some pretty good deals out there with Saratoga Springs right now.

OK, now I understand. You're right there are some really good deals on SSR points right now. Actually, I've noticed that to be the case for a long time.

 

[albertotahiti]

OK, now I understand. You're right there are some really good deals on SSR points right now. Actually, I've noticed that to be the case for a long time.

Yup...I saw one listing for Saratoga Springs, 160 points, with closing costs and no annual dues at closing for $10,530! May I ask, did you purchase through Disney or did you go resale?

Thanks.

 

[Greysword]

The reason SSR resale value is very low is due the number of points and DVD's selling policies. DVD did a great job of marketing the magic, and they added many incentives to entice members to buy at SSR rather than other resorts. Also, SSR is very large and has a very large number of points.

In the end, the combination of these two aspects caused a glut of contracts on the market when the recession began and many people were either laid off or forced to take other positions with a lower salary base. In addition, families that divorce or have loved ones that pass away end up having their DVC contracts liquidated as part of the legal proceedings.

As I alluded to, the net impact of this has caused a significantly higher number of SSR contracts on the resale market than many other resorts (however, others are catching up). The ramifications of this can be felt across all DVC properties, as the resale price point for the other resorts have also dipped significantly.

As mentioned, IMHO=In My Humble Opinion. Since the DIS is full of fun acronyms, I'll post a link to the abbreviation list in case there are others you had questions about (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1660743).

In the end, SSR is a fantastic resort, and you won't go wrong by owning here!

 

[disneynutz]

But wouldn't you think that Disney would "grandfather" in those folks who bought "on the cheap"? If they didn't, I would imagine alot of lawsuits to follow.

They might grandfather but it isn't legally required. Our contracts specifically state that we only have rights at our home resorts. Why would Disney add that to the contract if they didn't think that they might enforce it someday?

Disney has made several changes recently that I didn't see coming. If there is a benefit to Disney, you may see additional rule changes.

Bill

 

[MrShiny]

If Disney was really threatened by resales, it could simply ROFR them all. That would be costly of course. Sellers and brokers would love it, but who would make offers if they knew it was going to be refused - ROFR requires a legitimate offer. If they saw someone making a ton of offers just to force ROFR, they could simply let them go through forcing that person to either buy what they didn't intend or walk away.

Also, Disney controls the price and inventory, so it could simply destroy the market on price (probably with incentives). It doesn't want to be a price leader though, but it could be.

Disney does want 7 month booking at resorts because it promotes sales. It allows members to "try before they buy." As inventory fills up, this is less important and so too 7 month bookings become harder.

The point is the DVC still has value for those that go to DVC locations frequently. It still is much less than booking similar rack rate reservations. For instance I booked a room for 3 nights at AKV for 48 points with a rack rate of $1500.

Eventually disposable income will increase again and DVC sales will soar again because the basic value is still there. Disney has locations that people will happily visit year after year (and multiple times a year too!). That will always make it a great timeshare location.

To the original topic, SSR has a massive amount of points and fewer amenities compared to the hotel resorts. It's the "gateway resort" that got people into DVC (like me) in the hopes they would add on (like I did!).

 

[chalee94]

But wouldn't you think that Disney would "grandfather" in those folks who bought "on the cheap"? If they didn't, I would imagine alot of lawsuits to follow.

you really should understand that this is disney's world and we're just lucky to live in it...

people have threatened lawsuits when point charts have changed and when resale rules changed and so on...it's a silly threat. disney has deep pockets to pay the lawyers and the contracts are structured so that disney stays in control.

it's one of the tradeoffs you make when you buy into the DVC. disney is a generally benevolent dictator, but don't be under any illusions about who's the boss...

but yes, SSR is cheaper for a reason (supply and demand). supply is high...demand, due to location and relative amenities among other reasons, is much lower. SSR is a good resort, but if you buy in thinking you'll never stay there...that is unrealistic...

 

[ADP]

Just wanted to chime in. I'm not trying to change the topic of this thread, but we recently stayed at SSR for 7 nights. Since the resort opened and up until now it has really matured nicely. It takes time for a resort to really show itself. SSR's landscape has filled-in nicely and it's really a beautiful resort. My hope is that it will be maintained at a very high standard so the buildings continue to show their beauty.

My only complaint about SSR is I wish they'd change the music in the Artist's Palette. Whenever I'm in there (especially on departure day) I wanna cry!

 

[mjc2003]

I expect Disney to modify the 7 month booking rules. Disney wants people to buy direct and they seem to only want to sell new resorts. When someone buys SSR resale then books at BLT or AKV at 7 months, there isn't an incentive for anyone to buy from Disney.

Time will tell, but some owners who bought on the cheap may be in for a real shock someday.

Bill

People are able to buy on the cheap b/c of DVD's own doing. They stripped the (perceived) perks from the resales. They stopped with ROFR. If they really cared, they'd have kept them all the same and ROFR'd contracts across the board to make the price difference nominal, and the benefits of buying direct sellable. If they kept SSR at $100 direct but maintained an $85 floor resale via ROFR, but waived closing costs for direct purchases, threw in a $500 Visa giftcard and allowed for a 20 minute close instead of 2 months, they'd have most people buying direct.

They did all they could to make resales cheap, it's not like the could possibly be surprised that this is the end result.

Also, the 7 month booking window is the only reason to buy at BLT, or anywhere for that matter. You want to stay at BLT? Guarantee it by buying there; otherwise you might miss out at 7 months. They want people switching over. They want to tell the new buyer that BLT is filling up at 7 months. This helps them sell.

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

I think an easy fix would be to add 5 points a night to the THV that book 11 months out and lower the points for a studio or 1 bedroom 1-2 points per night. Or add in a view catagory, (IE pool or DTD view is 1-2 points more per night) to get the standard another 1-2 points less. Having an 11 point studio night in Aug be a 9 point and a 21 point become an 18 point 1 bedroom would make a big diff.

This wouldn't be consistent with the POS, so Disney couldn't legally do it. They can change the dates of the seasons, change the number of points charged for a room during a particular season, or change the number of points charged for weekday versus weekend. However, for every increase in points there has to be an offsetting decrease somewhere else for that same room. The total number of points charged for any specific room across the 365 days in a calendar year cannot ever change, per the terms of our contracts.

They cannot, therefore, shift points from one room type to another as you describe. They also could not create booking categories where one section (Carousel, for example) was always cheaper than others.

 

[chalee94]

They cannot, therefore, shift points from one room type to another as you describe. They also could not create booking categories where one section (Carousel, for example) was always cheaper than others.

pretty sure you are mistaken here. i think VB in particular did have movement across room types as well as weekend/weekday during the recent reallocations.

edited to add: i think the total pts for the whole resort for the whole year is the only thing that can't change.

 

[CarolMN]

This wouldn't be consistent with the POS, so Disney couldn't legally do it. They can change the dates of the seasons, change the number of points charged for a room during a particular season, or change the number of points charged for weekday versus weekend. However, for every increase in points there has to be an offsetting decrease somewhere else for that same room. The total number of points charged for any specific room across the 365 days in a calendar year cannot ever change, per the terms of our contracts.

They cannot, therefore, shift points from one room type to another as you describe. They also could not create booking categories where one section (Carousel, for example) was always cheaper than others.

My undersatnding is different than yours. Technically, the POS says the total number of points for a "unit" cannot change over the course of a year. "Unit" is defined differently for each resort, but it is not a single type of room. Also, the "year" is most likely a set "base" year, since the number of Friday and Saturday nights vary depending upon the year. We also really do not know how lock off 2 bedrooms are counted.

A better approximation of a reallocation is that the total number of points it takes to book every room of the resort in a year cannot change. There is also a cap on the amount any one night can change in a year that Disney has to consider. That's why the recent reallocations took two years to complete.

I believe a reallocation shifting points between the THV and other categories could be done if Disney so chose. I don't know if a reallocation could charge less for particular buildings, but I suspect not. However, they could certainly be made into separate booking categories like they did for Boardwalk view and Pool/Garden view at the BWV.

Now that the new feature pool has been built, the Carousel and Paddock Buildings are more desirable (IMHO).