Saratoga Springs - Million $$ Question

[Dean]

I have always respected your outlook and timeshare knowledge.

However in this case, CandyMandy was targeting SSR members even to the point of offering MS CMs to argue her point. I do agree with your assessment of how the those resort numbers affect the 7 month window if those members choose to change their reservations.

I do not believe that was her intent but she can certainly address that component. I read it as a point of emphasis, not of absoluteness, in part because to say every single member had the same usage is ludicrous and I don't see how a given member could believe that. Even at face value I still see it as group specific not person specific. I also believe that many owners, esp SSR owners, see discrimination and abuse of their resort where there is none and/or none was intended. YMMV.

 

[bumbershoot]

Don't include me!!! And don't say 'every other owner' unless you've talked to every other owner! I'm an SSR owner, and I use my SSR points at SSR.

Perhaps she meant every OTHER owner. And you're just the other other that doesn't do that.

Or perhaps it's just a phrase like "everyone and their brother"...no one takes that seriously...

Just to continue where I left off. I called today (Thank you to the person who recommended calling again!) and voila - they had AKV for my first 3 days and OKW for the remainder - Perfect! So glad I stuck with calling & didn't sit and just wait on the list.

Yay!!!!! I think a bunch of AKV owners just cancelled things, because we tried for AKV for the 2nd-6th component of our trip and the 6th-10th component, and there was NOTHING at exactly 7 months. Hmm, maybe I'll call and check on the 2 bedroom at the beginning of our trip...hmm.... (no! OKW is fine and has the biggest 2 bedrooms and that's important for this trip...gotta keep talking myself down, LOL.)

 

[Deb & Bill]

For those of you who do like SSR. How did you find it to be with kids? It looks very prim & proper to me. We enjoy more of the "family feel" resorts. That is why we love OKW so much. And yes, OKW was totally booked for 1 and 2 bdrm. units for Dec. 4-10.

That's the first time I have heard SSR described as prim and proper.

It's a wonderful resort with beautiful grounds. The pools are great for kids, especially younger ones with the water play areas. For older kids, they can rent bikes, head over to DTD, hit the arcade or enjoy the pool slides.

We love walking around the resort early in the morning seeing all the wildlife - no kudu or Ankole cattle, but rabbits, ducks, other various birds. Nothing like sitting on the patio/balcony early in the morning just looking out at the beauty of the grounds.

By the way, we don't own there (just OKW and VWL), but we love to stay there.

 

[Goofy's apprentice]

Can't believe we are still having this debate. At least it is less harsh than it used to be !

Given the large number of owners at SSR, it makes sense that SSR would have the largest number of owners looking to switch at 7 months.... Doesn't mean none of the owners want to stay there...

We stayed away from it for a while based on the negative views on these boards....once we stayed we loved it and I learned that everyone has an opinion, but I need to make my own opinion.

Our kids love it. They are teenagers now but still request SSR over all the other resorts. My dh and ! choose based on what type of vacation we want and have stayed at most of the resorts, loving them all for different reasons.

SSR has many great features and I can assure you that there are many owners who love to stay there. The THV and the new planned feature pool have ensured that their experience just keeps getting better.

 

[PMDR59]

All I can say is WOW! I can't get over how some people really dislike some resorts. We have stayed at SSR 1BR, AKV SV 1BR (we own AKV) and a studio in OKW. I would stay at any of them again. There were things we LOVED, things we liked and things we disliked at all 3 resorts. We are of the mindset that anywhere on property is better than not being in WDW!!!!!!

I had wayyyyyy differenct expectations going into each one from reading these boards. What really seems to irk some people about AKV, didnt bother me at all. People rave on & on about OKW and we though it was just OK. My 10 year old son HATED it ....his 1st comment ...yeah this place is OLD alright!!!

We bought so we could stay at different resorts. Once I try them all, then I will probably just book AKV. I hope to try BLT but it will be afew years since I have tentative plans for my 2010 pts (UY DEC so I look at them as 2011 points) and the following year. But who knows. I am actually trying to wiggle in 1 more trip before my annual pass expires in August......but I dont think its gonna happen

 

[Dean]

Can't believe we are still having this debate. At least it is less harsh than it used to be !

Given the large number of owners at SSR, it makes sense that SSR would have the largest number of owners looking to switch at 7 months.... Doesn't mean none of the owners want to stay there...

We stayed away from it for a while based on the negative views on these boards....once we stayed we loved it and I learned that everyone has an opinion, but I need to make my own opinion.

Our kids love it. They are teenagers now but still request SSR over all the other resorts. My dh and ! choose based on what type of vacation we want and have stayed at most of the resorts, loving them all for different reasons.

SSR has many great features and I can assure you that there are many owners who love to stay there. The THV and the new planned feature pool have ensured that their experience just keeps getting better.

Nothing wrong with the resort but it's more than just more owners, more points means more points looking at 7 months out. The % of owners at SSR who are looking elsewhere at 7 months out is also higher. That combined withe the large number of units/points has shifted the landscape of DVC dramatically and likely forever. The only way to change this would be to come up with changes that would make SSR as or more desirable than BCV, BWV, BLT, etc. That will take far more than THV and a new feature pool, even a shift to the OKW points structure would not be enough. It'd take something as dramatic as free passes staying at SSR but not at the other resorts to compensate.

 

[Dean]

All I can say is WOW! I can't get over how some people really dislike some resorts. We have stayed at SSR 1BR, AKV SV 1BR (we own AKV) and a studio in OKW. I would stay at any of them again. There were things we LOVED, things we liked and things we disliked at all 3 resorts. We are of the mindset that anywhere on property is better than not being in WDW!!!!!!

I can't speak for everyone but for many of us it has nothing to do with whether we like the resort (I do) but an honest appraisal of the differences in function and demand. I realize that some have kidded themselves into believing otherwise and that some can't separate out the issue of liking a resort vs the usage/demand of that resort which are almost totally separate issues.

 

[Goofy's apprentice]

The only way to change this would be to come up with changes that would make SSR as or more desirable than BCV, BWV, BLT, etc. That will take far more than THV and a new feature pool, even a shift to the OKW points structure would not be enough.

I disagree. This is a generalization that is just getting old. For many of our trips SSR is the most desirable. We resort-hop a lot (see my signature) and miss SSR if we don't stay there. I don't think that we are alone. Did SSR change the DVC landscape? Yes... Do DVC'rs only stay there because it is the last place available? Some may but all of them? No!

For some vacations...BWC is the most desirable for us. For some vacations...VWL is the most desirable. It just depends on what we are intending to do on the vacation. But SSR is the one we miss the most when we don't stay there...if that makes sense. And I don't think that we are alone in feeling.

We have treated friends and family to OKW, Vero, VWL, BWV and SSR. When asked where to book for their next trip, the answer has always been SSR. Once again, for my kids, it is the resort that they always want to stay at, even though the general opinion above is that it needs something to make it more desirable.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Dean, I think that if SSR's point structure were more like OKW's that would do it for desirability. Giving day passes would give the whole set of SSR owners who are AP holders a new reason not to stay at SSR!

I bought SSR points to stay in a treehouse and I have one booked!

Bobbi

 

[Dean]

I disagree. This is a generalization that is just getting old. For many of our trips SSR is the most desirable. We resort-hop a lot (see my signature) and miss SSR if we don't stay there. I don't think that we are alone. Did SSR change the DVC landscape? Yes... Do DVC'rs only stay there because it is the last place available? Some may but all of them? No!

For some vacations...BWC is the most desirable for us. For some vacations...VWL is the most desirable. It just depends on what we are intending to do on the vacation. But SSR is the one we miss the most when we don't stay there...if that makes sense. And I don't think that we are alone in feeling.

We have treated friends and family to OKW, Vero, VWL, BWV and SSR. When asked where to book for their next trip, the answer has always been SSR. Once again, for my kids, it is the resort that they always want to stay at, even though the general opinion above is that it needs something to make it more desirable.

For some I'm sure that's true but not for the same % of owners as at some of the higher demand resorts and that is the issue. The question isn't what you or I like per se but simply the balance. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that the same % of SSR owners mostly want to stay at SSR as say BCV and that would be what it would take to make this a non issue.

Dean, I think that if SSR's point structure were more like OKW's that would do it for desirability. Giving day passes would give the whole set of SSR owners who are AP holders a new reason not to stay at SSR!

I bought SSR points to stay in a treehouse and I have one booked!

Bobbi

It would help I'm sure however I don't think it'd be enough. To a degree, we could say all the same things about OKW other than the relative affect on the system related to the timing of the resort and the exact % and total points in quesiton. I think it'd take more than a change to OKW points, the new feature pool, THV or even booking categories all but all will help some. The problem is that even if it's only 1-2% off (it's more I'm sure more likely in the 15-20% range or more compared to BCV for example), the number of points involved would still create major affects.

 

[TisBit]

Another component to this is that SSR, AKV and soon to be BLT will also experience more resort hopping as new members that bought into the newest resorts will want to try all the resorts to see what they like and what they don't like.

An OKW owner who owned from the start was easily able to try new resorts as they came online and there was less disruption. As more resorts are opened it will be harder for newer members to try out the different resorts. We have stayed at SSR, HHI and AKV so far. This year we will get THV and BWV under our built, that puts us about half way to trying other resorts out. I do not intend to return to AKV unless it is the only place available. If I owned there I would be content with it, but I wasn't "wowed" to having to stay there. I do not see BWV doing it for me either, but I want to give it a shot.

Once I stay at all the resorts I will have a priority of which resorts I like best in my mind, but right now it is just staying in new places. I do like SSR, do I HAVE to stay there, no....but I do like to stay there. As more and more new owners get it out of their system things will probably settle a bit and I think they have in the last year or so, compared to what it used to be.

 

[Dean]

Another component to this is that SSR, AKV and soon to be BLT will also experience more resort hopping as new members that bought into the newest resorts will want to try all the resorts to see what they like and what they don't like.

An OKW owner who owned from the start was easily able to try new resorts as they came online and there was less disruption. As more resorts are opened it will be harder for newer members to try out the different resorts. We have stayed at SSR, HHI and AKV so far. This year we will get THV and BWV under our built, that puts us about half way to trying other resorts out. I do not intend to return to AKV unless it is the only place available. If I owned there I would be content with it, but I wasn't "wowed" to having to stay there. I do not see BWV doing it for me either, but I want to give it a shot.

Once I stay at all the resorts I will have a priority of which resorts I like best in my mind, but right now it is just staying in new places. I do like SSR, do I HAVE to stay there, no....but I do like to stay there. As more and more new owners get it out of their system things will probably settle a bit and I think they have in the last year or so, compared to what it used to be.

A point I haven't made on this thread, but have before on this topic and fits into your post is the following. New owners are very likely to stay at their home resort for the first few (? 2-3) visits before they start venturing out and they are more likely to stay at their home resort more often for some resorts than others. Those related factors means that the impact that SSR has had on the system will get worst for a while longer then it should settle out but at a new reality that is marginally worse than where we are now as it relates to high demand times at the 7 month window.

In the past when this issue has come up some have postulated that new places like BLT will even the issue out as more high demand rooms come available. I'd point out that it's not the number of rooms that come into the system that has affect at the 7 month window but ONLY the number of rooms available at the 7 month window. And even the points associated with those rooms are likely looking more for other high demand options and not the lower demand resorts (by %). My estimate is that it'd take at least 10,000 BCV/BLT demand type rooms to even the affect of SSR on the system and likely even more.

 

[SnowWhite2]

I
For some vacations...BWC is the most desirable for us. For some vacations...VWL is the most desirable. It just depends on what we are intending to do on the vacation. But SSR is the one we miss the most when we don't stay there...if that makes sense. And I don't think that we are alone in feeling.

We have treated friends and family to OKW, Vero, VWL, BWV and SSR. When asked where to book for their next trip, the answer has always been SSR. Once again, for my kids, it is the resort that they always want to stay at, even though the general opinion above is that it needs something to make it more desirable.

What she said

We all love SSR and miss it when we don't get to stay there. Something about it just says "home" to us.

We do not like the long hallway walk of the "hotel" resorts. Driving up to our condo after a long day at the park or touring the town is great. Hoofing it from the parking lots at BWV and VWL was the absolute worst part of our trips.

 

[mom of princessx2]

Lets not put all the blame on SSR members for the resorts being full. Our Spring Break trip I met 2 different families both staying at BCV both owning their points at HHI and neither had ever stayed at HHI. They were not new members either, both had their points for a number of years.

 

[yitbos96bb]

It would be nice if resale value always equated to internal DVC member demand...but it doesn't. Every other owner at SSR is constantly trying to get into the Epcot area resorts - which has resulted in making the standard and Boardwalk view villa categories at BWV among the toughest ones to get for prime (and even many secondary) season ressies at 7 months.

And if anyone wants to debate that, I can put them in touch with two particular DVC MS CMs who take those SSR member phone calls daily and will give you an earful about how tired they are of saying "no availability."

I think you missed the point of the original post... I wasn't referring to demand, I was saying the cost to purchase was cheaper for HH and VB and about the same for SSR and BWV. Nothing to do with desirability.

As for BWV, the Standard and BW View Villas have never been the easiest to get as they ARe very limited. As DVC has grown, they have gotten more and more difficult. And you really are over stating the number of SSR owners trying to get into Epcot resorts. Two DVC members do not prove anything and simply provide some anecdotal examples. Yes, more SSR owners will switch out because there ARE more SSR owners. It's the biggest resort in DVC. I'd love to see some hard system numbers because I will bet percentage wise the number of people switching to different resorts is a lot closer than you think. However, since I doubt Disney will ever release those numbers, we will never know.

 

[Dean]

Lets not put all the blame on SSR members for the resorts being full. Our Spring Break trip I met 2 different families both staying at BCV both owning their points at HHI and neither had ever stayed at HHI. They were not new members either, both had their points for a number of years.

No one's blaming SSR owners and I clearly stated that this was true of VB & HH. Actually I didn't say it was a problem per se, only that it's the reality of the situation. However, SSR coming on board changed (is changing since it's not done yet) the nature of the 7 month window availability significantly and likely forever. Actually SSR is good for me as it expands the opportunities and availability for exchange options to trade in to DVC. I've also recommended on a number of occasions that SSR was the best value for resale points and I still believe that. But there are undeniable affects that SSR has had even affecting other home resort availability back to the 11 month window in some cases as owners at those resorts retreat to make sure they get reservations that were previously available on shorter notice. Actually my opinion is that DVC has experienced far greater availability at 7 months out than I would have expected, we're just getting to the point now that I would have expected for some time.

 

[TNMOUSE]

I own at SSR and believe that most owners want to try each resort. That's one of the great things about DVC. When I first bought in, the first thing I said was I wanted to stay at every DVC resort. Don't get me wrong, I love SSR but if another resort is available and I have not stayed there, I will move my reservation.

 

[toniosmom]

I own at SSR and believe that most owners want to try each resort. That's one of the great things about DVC. When I first bought in, the first thing I said was I wanted to stay at every DVC resort. Don't get me wrong, I love SSR but if another resort is available and I have not stayed there, I will move my reservation.

I agree. When I bought in to AKV two years ago, I had the same intention.....to experience each resort at least once. I'm sure this feeling is shared by many owners, not just SSR owners.

 

[racerqueen3]

Saratoga has the most rooms therefore that's why you usually get booked there

 

[lundve]

For those of you who do like SSR. How did you find it to be with kids? It looks very prim & proper to me. We enjoy more of the "family feel" resorts. That is why we love OKW so much. And yes, OKW was totally booked for 1 and 2 bdrm. units for Dec. 4-10.

We own at SSR and love it too. My DH and I also like the outside entrances better than the BCV and BW that have interior hallways and feels like you need to walk 600 miles to the elevators and then wait again.

Our kids love SSR pools and community centers and the CS and TS restaurants have things that satisfy even the pickiest.

We have stayed at almost all the resorts and have found where we stay is really dictated by what we want to accomplish that trip. I'd still rather have a room at Disney than stay off site or not go at all.