Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause

[dbm20th]

The only problem is that the credit for those films needs to go to Jeffrey Katzenberg and not Eisner. Also, all of the big successes from 1984 to 1994 were among the best things to happen at Disney during the Eisner years. But another person who seldom gets any credit for the Disney boom is Frank Wells. Can all of us agree that after Wells died and Katzenberg left, Disney fell apart? One read of Disney War and anyone should agree with this statement. I also forgot abut Roy E. Disney. He deserves credit too.

And that is do doubt true. But you can't ignore that a primary goal of a person in Esiner's position is judged more by the performance of those he places into positions like those held by Katzenberg then his own creative contributions, much the same as Walt's 9 old men. Putting the right people in the right places was the single most important thing Eisner needed to do when he took over, and he did it as well as anyone. Again, that regime had 10 amazing years. Let's hope Lasseter has the same vision and Iger's ego doesn't get the best of him like Eisner's did.

I don't like the Pixar stuff.

Well then at least you admit you are out of the main stream here. Pixar is to Disney now, what Walt's animation was in the 1950's. It is the fuel that runs the engine. Buzz, Woody, Nemo, these are who jazz kids like Snow White and Peter Pan did all those years ago, and Simba and Aeriel in later years. I am sorry to say, this is what will takeover in Disney, and I believe rightly so. That means I expect the mainstream won't include you for a while.

I have not seen a Disney film of any kind since 2001.

Well that certainly is a shame. Besides missing the Pixar films which is some of the greatest and most groundbreaking animation is cinematic history, you have missed some great live-action films. Beside the PoTC, the Rookie was terrific and Miracle stands as one of the best sports films produced.

 

[MJMcBride]

Guess What? I can now agree with you on something!! .

Who woulda thunk it?

The only problem is that the credit for those films needs to go to Jeffrey Katzenberg and not Eisner. Also, all of the big successes from 1984 to 1994 were among the best things to happen at Disney during the Eisner years. But another person who seldom gets any credit for the Disney boom is Frank Wells. Can all of us agree that after Wells died and Katzenberg left, Disney fell apart? One read of Disney War and anyone should agree with this statement. I also forgot abut Roy E. Disney. He deserves credit too.

So what? Like I said Disney fans got left with some great stuff. I really don't care who gets the credit. I am not an Eisner apologist.

I think you should check out the Pixar films and the Pirates movie. They're great. If your ban includes Narnia too, then you missed another great one.

Personally, I don't care that Mr. Toad is gone. Although the cooler version of Pooh would have been nice.

 

[dbm20th]

Personally, I don't care that Mr. Toad is gone.

That's blasphemy around here.

 

[exDS vet]

I think of the people who went crazy when Mr. Toad was replaced by the Pooh ride at WDW. I felt the same way when they did it to the Country Bear Playhouse at DL in 2001. It's funny that DL's Pooh ride is nowhere as popular at the Florida version, but they are the same. Go figure.

My understanding is that DL's Pooh is not the same as WDW's (and of course Tokyo's blows them both away). I love the original Country Bears show. The Great Outdoors show stunk. But I thought that a well-done update (given the popularity of country and roots music) might help keep Country Bears around.

I've only been on each Pooh ride (DL and MK) once, and they were about five years apart. As I recall, they both seemed pretty much the same to me. But the facade and the queue areas at Disneyland combined with the new shops and meet and greets are much more appealing than the MK. And considering that it is directly across from Splash Mountain, I thought it would be more popular. I guess having the ride in Fantasyland at MK was a better decision.

I miss the Country Bears. Yes the Outdoors show was not as good as the original, but I loved the Christmas show. And with Disneyland's other two holiday "overlays", it would have made perfect sense keep the show around.

Another interesting point. We debate alot on this board about missing attractions like Mr. Toad, Peoplemover, etc. But there's not much said about Country Bear Playhouse leaving Disneyland. I was there on the last day of the attraction and got a commemorative Castmember button. I wonder if this attraction might have been remembered more had 9/11 not happened two days after it was closed. Strange question I know, but just curious.

 

[DancingBear]

And that is do doubt true. But you can't ignore that a primary goal of a person in Esiner's position is judged more by the performance of those he places into positions like those held by Katzenberg then his own creative contributions, much the same as Walt's 9 old men. Putting the right people in the right places was the single most important thing Eisner needed to do when he took over, and he did it as well as anyone. Again, that regime had 10 amazing years.

I agree that you really can't have it both ways, blaming Eisner for everything bad that happened during his tenure, and not giving him any credit for the good; however, there's reason to not give Eisner too much credit for those 10 years: (1) Eisner wasn't responsible for bringing Wells on board (it was more or less the other way around), (2) given his later treatment of Katzenberg (and I'm not a big midget fan), the horrible Ovitz episode (which can entirely be laid at Eisner's feet), and his failure after Wells' death to rebuild the team, and (3) there is evidence that at least some of those successful projects happened in spite of Eisner's poor instincts and suggestions, not because of his encouragement.

 

[Tink's Tormentor]

And let us not forget.... the people who handle the money, Iger just shut them down I believe, held more power that Eisner did.. I wonder how many awesome ideas were approved by Eisner but knocked down by that money department.

 

[dbm20th]

I agree that you really can't have it both ways, blaming Eisner for everything bad that happened during his tenure, and not giving him any credit for the good; however, there's reason to not give Eisner too much credit for those 10 years: (1) Eisner wasn't responsible for bringing Wells on board (it was more or less the other way around), (2) given his later treatment of Katzenberg (and I'm not a big midget fan), the horrible Ovitz episode (which can entirely be laid at Eisner's feet), and his failure after Wells' death to rebuild the team, and (3) there is evidence that at least some of those successful projects happened in spite of Eisner's poor instincts and suggestions, not because of his encouragement.

That is true. There is more than enough evidence. But what happens here is that people ascribe Eisner's attitude and stuipidty to everyithing from WDI, to DCL, and on and on. That's nonsense. In spite of all the challenges presented by being lead by yo-yo, this company still produced some great things. I don't care what anyone wants to say, there have been acheivements by WDI in the last 10 years. I am not going to call everything bad simply because I have an anti-Eisner agenda

 

[MJMcBride]

I don't care what anyone wants to say, there have been acheivements by WDI in the last 10 years.

I agree completely, but I still say the disappointments are more frequent nowadays.

In that vein, do you think Alien Encounter was just misplaced. I know it got a lot of heat, but it was actually an interesting idea. Would it have been successful if it was say at MGM instead of fantasyland.

 

[dbm20th]

I agree completely, but I still say the disappointments are more frequent nowadays.

I don't think anyone would argue that, even the most dyed-in-the-wool pisie duster. But that still does not mean that people don't know what they are doing, or that we can just assume something will be dissappointing. In fact, I still believe the good surpasses the bad, even in the darkets of days.

In that vein, do you think Alien Encounter was just misplaced. I know it got a lot of heat, but it was actually an interesting idea. Would it have been successful if it was say at MGM instead of fantasyland

It was a great attraction. One of the few things geared toward adults in all of MK. It was intense and very fun, and would certainly have worked at the Studios very, very well. Putting it in MK was a big mistake, but one that is easy see in hindsight. They certainly marketed it honestly, but that didn't stop the complaints.

When it opened it was one example of the good things, when it closed it was one example of the bad we are talking about. It's departure was obviously made worse by it successor, one of WDI's worst moments for sure.

 

[MJMcBride]

By the way, I meant to say Alien Encounter was in tomorrowland. Sorry.

 

[Shell0616]

I know this thread is dead but I wanted to say to you all that I really enjoyed reading it.

Thank you for your opinions. This may have been the most well thought out and intellectual reponses I have read on the board.

( I really need to venture away from the "Trip" threads more)


Thanks again,

Shellie

 

[DancingBear]

And let us not forget.... the people who handle the money, Iger just shut them down I believe, held more power that Eisner did.. I wonder how many awesome ideas were approved by Eisner but knocked down by that money department.

You're kidding, right? They all worked for Eisner. Whatever power they had, Eisner gave them. Eisner's ideas (good: Broadway; bad: DCA) got done.