San Juan and Passenger Vessel Service act - help needed

[Thorb73]

Hi all,

looking at the new itineraries for 2026/2027 there is one potential trip which got our attention.
However I'm not 100% sure if this can be done with the Passenger Vessel Service Act in Place...

The idea would be:
4 Night Eastern Caribbean from FLL ending in San Juan April 12-16 2027
B2B with
7 Night Southern Caribbean from San Juan April 16-23 2027
B2B with
4 Night Eastern Caribbean from San Juan ending in Port Canaveral April 23-27 th

I know I can't do Only Cruise 1 and Cruise 3 because of PVSA since there is no foreign port in between. But when I add the 7 night then I will be visiting foreign ports and it is my understanding that this should be allowed.

I hope that some of you are more expirienced in reading the PVSA as I am and I would like to know if it makes sense in trying to book this or if this is not allowed.

Thanks a lot!!

 

[AquaDame]

There should be a stop on the four nights, right? Otherwise even just FLL to San Juan might not be allowed? That sounds like a heck of a trip if it is... consider me a possible copycat!

 

[jimmymc]

You or your travel agent should call Disney and ask. All three legs will have a stop outside of the US, and I'm 98% sure this itinerary will be fine. But sometimes there are weird rules with doing back-to-back, one-way cruises.

 

[Thorb73]

There should be a stop on the four nights, right? Otherwise even just FLL to San Juan might not be allowed? That sounds like a heck of a trip if it is... consider me a possible copycat!

Yes both 4 nights stop on Castaway and Lighthouse Point - at least it would be something outside of the regular DCL fair ;-)

 

[Thorb73]

You or your travel agent should call Disney and ask. All three legs will have a stop outside of the US, and I'm 98% sure this itinerary will be fine. But sometimes there are weird rules with doing back-to-back, one-way cruises.

Already dropped an Email to Disney.. Will keep you posted.

 

[Mommb]

The Bahamas counts as a foreign port for the PSVA, but not as a distant foreign port.

Cruises that leave from and return to the same US port need a stop at a foreign port. That's why cruises to/from Florida that stop at Castaway Cay or Lighthouse Point are permitted.

Cruises that leave from one US port and end at a different US port need a stop at a distant foreign port. However, cruises to and from San Juan are exceptions to this rule, which is why Cruise 1 and Cruise 3 are permitted.

Curacao and Aruba (on the 7 night Southern Caribbean cruise from San Juan) are distant foreign ports, so it should be possible to do Cruises 1, 2, and 3 back-to-back. Of course, it would be a good idea to check with Disney Cruise to make sure this is permitted.

 

[jwalk03]

Since the 7-night visits the ABC Islands- those do count as distant foreign ports. So I believe this would be compliant with the PVSA. That said it may take some work to get Disney to agree that it would be compliant. Make sure you have it in writing from them that its allowed- so it doesn't get cancelled later and cause stress.

Also you certainly could do only cruise 1 and cruise 3 since there is an entire week in between them? It would be 2 separate trips not a single cruise.

 

[apathetic]

I don't see why you can't do any combination of the three. As stated, you can do a 1 way from US city to Puerto Rico. You could do 1 and 2 because I've done that before (Galveston to San Juan then 7 day southern). You could do 2 & 3 because that would be similar, just in a different order. Doing cruises 1 & 3 is totally possible because there is a 7 day lag (not back2back) and each would fall under the same rule as 1-way cruises to/from San Juan. You could do all 3 because it would be like leaving Ft. Lauderdale and then returning to Ft. Lauderdale. As explained previously on these forums, since they are all consecutive it would be considered the same departure/arrival port (Ft. Lauderdale in this case). The fact it stops at a distant foreign port is helpful but not necessary.

 

[jwalk03]

I don't see why you can't do any combination of the three. As stated, you can do a 1 way from US city to Puerto Rico. You could do 1 and 2 because I've done that before (Galveston to San Juan then 7 day southern). You could do 2 & 3 because that would be similar, just in a different order. Doing cruises 1 & 3 is totally possible because there is a 7 day lag (not back2back) and each would fall under the same rule as 1-way cruises to/from San Juan. You could do all 3 because it would be like leaving Ft. Lauderdale and then returning to Ft. Lauderdale. As explained previously on these forums, since they are all consecutive it would be considered the same departure/arrival port (Ft. Lauderdale in this case). The fact it stops at a distant foreign port is helpful but not necessary.

The 3rd cruise does not end in Ft. Lauderdale. It ends in Port Canaveral. So combining these 3 cruises into a B2B2B means the OP would be sailing from Ft. Lauderdale to Pt. Canaveral which normally would not be allowed but since the middle cruise visits the ABC Islands that is considered a “distant foreign port” under PVSA which would make it compliant.

 

[mcd2745]

We did the Southern Caribbean sailing from SJ on the Magic this past November. I recall some people in the FB group stating they were not able to do the B2B2B similar to what OP is looking at doing. They were allowed to book it initially, but then DCL eventually reached out to them and said they would have to cancel one

 

[holula]

You should be able to do it. Whether or not DCL will let you do it is a different matter.

The Southern looks great, I just wish it was a week earlier!

 

[jwalk03]

We did the Southern Caribbean sailing from SJ on the Magic this past November. I recall some people in the FB group stating they were not able to do the B2B2B similar to what OP is looking at doing. They were allowed to book it initially, but then DCL eventually reached out to them and said they would have to cancel one

The 11/8/2024 Southern Caribbean cruise from San Juan on the Magic visited St. Kitts, St. Lucia, Barbados, Dominca and Antigua.
None of these are "distant foreign ports". So sailing from FLL to San Juan to Galveston would not have been allowed since it would violate the PVSA.

The PVSA requires a "distant foreign port" when sailing between 2 US ports on a foreign flagged vessel. The ABC Islands ARE "distant foreign ports" so this is a different scenario from 2024.

 

[apathetic]

The 3rd cruise does not end in Ft. Lauderdale. It ends in Port Canaveral. So combining these 3 cruises into a B2B2B means the OP would be sailing from Ft. Lauderdale to Pt. Canaveral which normally would not be allowed but since the middle cruise visits the ABC Islands that is considered a “distant foreign port” under PVSA which would make it compliant.

Oops ,missed that. Read too fast and assumed the Dream would go back where it came from Yeah, B2B2B could be an issue. I'm not sure if there is a mileage test for distant foreign port but for some reason I thought it had to be on a different continent. Could be interesting.

 

[jwalk03]

Oops ,missed that. Read too fast and assumed the Dream would go back where it came from Yeah, B2B2B could be an issue. I'm not sure if there is a mileage test for distant foreign port but for some reason I thought it had to be on a different continent. Could be interesting.

The ABC Islands ARE distant foreign ports under the PVSA. (They are considered part of South America). Its not about mileage.

 

[Thorb73]

Currently on the phone with DCL. The rep is checking with some specialists/supervisors....

 

[Thorb73]

Currently on the phone with DCL. The rep is checking with some specialists/supervisors....

Well... The answer is - they will not let me book it as it violates the PVSA - they were not able to give me more details but it took them about 20 minutes to figure that out.
Thanks anyway for all your input and help... not sure if I should try to book it and let them cancel but I think we will look around for something different...

 

[jwalk03]

Well... The answer is - they will not let me book it as it violates the PVSA - they were not able to give me more details but it took them about 20 minutes to figure that out.
Thanks anyway for all your input and help... not sure if I should try to book it and let them cancel but I think we will look around for something different...

I believe they are incorrect. If you really want to do it try and escalate. You just need to find the right person to review it and realize that it does not violate the PVSA because of the distant foreign ports.

 

[Mommb]

I believe they are incorrect. If you really want to do it try and escalate. You just need to find the right person to review it and realize that it does not violate the PVSA because of the distant foreign ports.

Even if the voyage meets PVSA rules, if Disney Cruise says they won't allow it, it can't be booked. Sure, it wouldn't hurt to inquire, but a change is unlikely if it's already been discussed internally.

It is possible that the concern is that if the stops at Curacao and Aruba are cancelled (for instance, due to bad weather between Puerto Rico and the ABC islands) then the voyage will not meet PVSA rules and Disney Cruise will be fined. If it's not possible to reach Aruba, Bonaire, or Curacao safely, there aren't other "distant" ports that would be feasible on a 7-night cruise. To avoid any possibility of that happening, they may have decided not to allow people to book a cruise from one mainland US port to another without an alternate route if the "distant port" stops don't happen.

It's also possible that although this itinerary would work, there are other port-to-port combinations that aren't permitted, and to make things simpler for booking agents and customers, DCL are barring all combinations from one US port to another except for the Panama Canal cruise (which is long enough to allow another port stop or another attempt if the scheduled stop at Cartegena, Columbia won't work) and cruises to and from San Juan.

 

[jwalk03]

Even if the voyage meets PVSA rules, if Disney Cruise says they won't allow it, it can't be booked. Sure, it wouldn't hurt to inquire, but a change is unlikely if it's already been discussed internally.

It is possible that the concern is that if the stops at Curacao and Aruba are cancelled (for instance, due to bad weather between Puerto Rico and the ABC islands) then the voyage will not meet PVSA rules and Disney Cruise will be fined. If it's not possible to reach Aruba, Bonaire, or Curacao safely, there aren't other "distant" ports that would be feasible on a 7-night cruise. To avoid any possibility of that happening, they may have decided not to allow people to book a cruise from one mainland US port to another without an alternate route if the "distant port" stops don't happen.

It's also possible that although this itinerary would work, there are other port-to-port combinations that aren't permitted, and to make things simpler for booking agents and customers, DCL are barring all combinations from one US port to another except for the Panama Canal cruise (which is long enough to allow another port stop or another attempt if the scheduled stop at Cartegena, Columbia won't work) and cruises to and from San Juan.

Yeah they could absolutely chose not to allow it for various reasons- the OP may escalate and still be told no for sure. But i know how call centers work very well and those front line agents and even their supervisors are not the ones making these decisions and I seriously doubt there is some blanket policy already in place for this scenario- hence my suggestion to escalate and see what happens.

As to the point about the Panama Canal cruise other than Cartagena and the ABC Islands there isn't a viable alternative that would meet the requirements of the PVSA anywhere close to the route of a Panama Canal cruise.

I know exceptions to PVSA have been made in the past in the event of emergency situations (like cruises to nowhere have happened if a cruise only had 1 port and it had to be cancelled without triggering PVSA fines) But I'm sure there is legal ranging that is required with those types of situations and it may not be worth the potential headache that could be caused if they allowed a handful of passengers to book this and then something happened.

 

[Thorb73]

Thanks for all your input. I do have an email inquiry still open with DCL and will wait for this answer. Based on the outcome I might indeed try to escalate it with all your helpful input.
I will let you know if things change.