Sagging economy slows plans for ‘Flamingo Crossings’ at Disney

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2009/11/sagging-economy-slows-plans-for-flamingo-crossings-at-disney/

 

[DisneyGerry]

Never heard of this--where is it or where was it supposed to be?

 

[Dznefreek]

SR 429 and Western Way. First traffic light past CSR going towards BB, make a right and you would drive right into it . . . .

 

[DisneyGerry]

This is what I figured--I see all the Palm Trees, etc up--interesting

 

[crazy4wdw]

This is interesting. I wondered what happened to the Flamingo Crossings Project.

Here's a link to one of the initial aritcles on the project:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...y28_1_walt-disney-disney-property-reedy-creek

 

[doconeill]

I guess the dirt got pushed around a little too long...

If they can't get low-end hotel chains to move in, what does that mean for any hope of finishing POP any time soon? I can see contradictory possibilities:

- There is no expected need for low-priced rooms at all for at least two years

- There IS a need for low-priced rooms, but Disney can't convince the chains of such and will complete POP in order to fill the demand

 

[DisneyGerry]

Where does it end?

What deals are people getting for some of those motels/ inns on 192? $30-50 a night? Is that what they are interested in as well?

 

[tjkraz]

I believe Disney was looking at this as a way of using their own land to attract "off-site" businesses.

For the sake of argument, let's pretend that the nearest Target/WalMart/Holiday Inn is about 5 miles up SR 429. By developing this land, Disney is giving retailers and hotel operators a chance to be just two miles up SR 429. Even though the area would be within the Reedy Creek Improvement District, it would be marketed as "off-site" and not truly be direct competition for Disney's "on-site" resorts. At least, not any more so than current hotel chains which are just a couple miles off of Disney's land.

The big problem would seem to be that few companies are building right now. Not just because of the credit markets but the overall state of the economy. People still aren't spending like they were 18+ months ago, so retail operations aren't in much of a growth mode. Even less considering the prices Disney is likely asking for the site in question.

Hard to tell what the future may hold for the second half of Pop Century. Even when tourism was doing better, Disney still had to offer room-only discount codes, AP codes and so forth to fill the rooms they have now. The incentives weren't as attractive as the "7 for 5" offers or the months of "free dining." But the presence of incentives suggests that Disney discounts to rent the rooms it already has available. Building another 3000 Value rooms seems like it would only lead to more discounts as Disney struggles to fill them.

 

[KYMickey]

The land for Flamingo Crossing isn't part of the Reedy Creek district. It was deannexed like the land for the Four Seasons Resort was. If it had remained part of the district they would have had voting power which is something Disney doesn't want.

 

[tjkraz]

The land for Flamingo Crossing isn't part of the Reedy Creek district. It was deannexed like the land for the Four Seasons Resort was. If it had remained part of the district they would have had voting power which is something Disney doesn't want.

From the Sentinel article:

Although the land is to remain within Reedy Creek and be subject to its more-stringent design standards, Disney intends to sell parcels of land to third-party builders to construct the businesses.

The voting rights represented by those small parcels wouldn't give owners any opportunity to override Disney's control of the government.

 

[ConcKahuna]

Since they cant even fill the spaces they created by closing Pleasure Island, this doesnt suprise me.

Disney really shot themselves in the foot with this huge push on shopping and dinning instead of other forms of entertainment...

 

[doconeill]

The land for Flamingo Crossing isn't part of the Reedy Creek district. It was deannexed like the land for the Four Seasons Resort was. If it had remained part of the district they would have had voting power which is something Disney doesn't want.

I don't think it was de-annexed, at least in the same way as with Four Season. If Disney leases the land, then I don't believe anyone gets voting powers.

In the case of the Four Seasons, it included residences in some form, so it was a different situation.

 

[tjkraz]

Since they cant even fill the spaces they created by closing Pleasure Island, this doesnt suprise me.

Disney really shot themselves in the foot with this huge push on shopping and dinning instead of other forms of entertainment...

I doubt the two projects have any direct bearing on one another.

The plan for Downtown Disney is to continue adding more dining and retail options which would appeal largely to "on-site" guests.

The plan for Flamingo Crossings is to attract "off-site" hoteliers and services that are of use to locals and Cast Members coming-and-going (grocery stores, dry cleaners, gas stations, etc.)

Disney apparently wasn't happy with the level of business at the DTD clubs and it wouldn't have improved in this economy. Strictly from a business perspective, better to shutter the outlets rather than take a loss (or even marginal profit) due to low demand.

 

[zulemara]

I doubt the two projects have any direct bearing on one another.

The plan for Downtown Disney is to continue adding more dining and retail options which would appeal largely to "on-site" guests.

The plan for Flamingo Crossings is to attract "off-site" hoteliers and services that are of use to locals and Cast Members coming-and-going (grocery stores, dry cleaners, gas stations, etc.)

Disney apparently wasn't happy with the level of business at the DTD clubs and it wouldn't have improved in this economy. Strictly from a business perspective, better to shutter the outlets rather than take a loss (or even marginal profit) due to low demand.

There's 2 things ppl do in a recession...drink and have sex. There is plenty of demand, they just don't care. All you have to do is look at citywalk or House of Blues on Sunday night to see it.

 

[Luv2Roam]

Flamingo Crossings has not been a fast moving project anyway. Landscaping and lights are finally in. That and a few paved roads is all I have seen.
I agree, with DTD dying, there is little chance a business will invest in FC right now.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

I have no idea how much it costs to buy or lease a parcel of land at Flamingo Crossings but I doubt that it's cheap. That said, is it really possible for any hotel/motel developer to build new construction there and then price rooms below what you can get an existing room for over on I-Drive or Kissimmee...or Hotel Plaza Blvd. for that matter? No way. So I just don't see Motel 6 or Super 8 or Budgetel going there. So the next tier up is Holiday Inn Express, Fairfield Inn, etc. You're looking at rates above $100/night on new construction. Hardly budget and already available just outside Disney gates. Heck, hotels on Hotel Plaza Blvd can be had well under $100/night. So I just don't see hotels viewing FC as a profitable venture. Of course I'd like to see PI 2.0 somewhere out behind CSR!

BobK/Orlando

 

[ConcKahuna]

I think that area would be PERFECT for a PI 2.0. It's far enough from the resorts that there wouldn't be a noise complaint, but at the same time still on property and easy to run transportation to.

Also, 429 would make getting there MUCH easier for almost all locals, and help prevent traffic through the DTD area.

 

[tjkraz]

There's 2 things ppl do in a recession...drink and have sex. There is plenty of demand, they just don't care. All you have to do is look at citywalk or House of Blues on Sunday night to see it.

It may send people to their refrigerator or corner bar for a drink, but I have my doubts about whether that translates into people traveling 1000 miles...paying for a hotel, park tickets and dining plan...and then heading to the Adventurer's Club in greater numbers.

Certain locations like Citywalk may be prospering following Disney's closures. But when you take similar crowds and spread them out over a greater number of clubs/bars, every outlet suffers. In other words, Citywalk wouldn't be doing nearly as well if Disney's clubs were still open--nor would Disney.

Certainly there were a number of factors which contributed to the decision, and I doubt there is any great remorse in light of the current recession.

 

[ConcKahuna]

It may send people to their refrigerator or corner bar for a drink, but I have my doubts about whether that translates into people traveling 1000 miles...paying for a hotel, park tickets and dining plan...and then heading to the Adventurer's Club in greater numbers.

Certain locations like Citywalk may be prospering following Disney's closures. But when you take similar crowds and spread them out over a greater number of clubs/bars, every outlet suffers. In other words, Citywalk wouldn't be doing nearly as well if Disney's clubs were still open--nor would Disney.

Certainly there were a number of factors which contributed to the decision, and I doubt there is any great remorse in light of the current recession.

True, but PI got a much larger crowd from areas west of WDW than Citywalk does or ever has.

I live in Winter Haven, about 30 miles from WDW. PI wasn't too far for me, but Citywalk is another 20 miles or so away, and that far of a distance makes it so Citywalk isnt an option for me. Instead of going to Citywalk, I just end up not going out at all.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Certainly there were a number of factors which contributed to the decision, and I doubt there is any great remorse in light of the current recession.

Well in ECON 101 a business will operate if it can make $1 of profit. The reality is that no business would make an attempt at something if the only profit to be made on an investment was just a dollar. But PI was profitable. They felt they could make greater profits using the land in a different manner. While that may ultimately pan out, it hasn't panned out so far. They apparently had no signed contracts and those that were interested bailed out or postponed plans. Even with future plans, they could have reopened a few places and made profits once they saw plans were going to be delayed. Any profit is better than no profit....or a loss.

BobK/Orlando