Sad Story from One Who Trusted without Checking!

[Scotch]

Next time you rent, you can get rentee "comfort" by checking for deeds, etc., in the name/address of the person whose points you are renting at

http://www.comptroller.co.orange.fl.us/disclaimer.html

I have rented twice to great success, and I didn't know about the Orange County site until recently, so I thought calling MS a week before the trip was a comfort also (mainly from fear of computer screw-ups rather than rental scammers), but from now on I plan on checking the deeds before renting and calling the resort the day before our trips to be sure the machines/humanerror haven't glitched our trip . Which is what I do with regular reservations anyway ... paranoia, but better than arriving to "no room at the inn"

And I personally won't pay anyone except the person/family who/which owns the points... so, sorry, second-cousin's uncle-in-law of the owner, if your name ain't on the deed, no deal

Unfortunately, the fact that someone actually owns the points -- in and of itself -- doesn't mean you are assured that you will arrive with "room at the inn." The risk associated with renting from an unknown stranger is always there -- even if you received a copy of the reservation confirmation, the owner can cancel the reservation at any time prior to your checking in. The inherent risk in these transaction is why you can save so much money renting from an owner vs. renting direct from Disney. I just don't want people to be lulled under a false sense of security thinking that verifying ownership of the points is suffient guarantee.

 

[greenban]

Just hanging in there with our DIS family victims.

Hopefully you'll get some restitution, and 'PP' will get free room and board and 3 square meals a day in one of our correctional facilities.

You (the victims) have such class and dignity, I am so sorry you and your families were victimized.



-Tony

 

[Scotch]

Seriously, is there no interest (in my suggestion posted earlier) in making this thread a sticky on the Rent/Trade board as a warning for folks to be careful? I just feel terrible when I keep seeing new and old victims popping up on this thread. And I don't mean to use this thread as a warning only to folks who may encounter PP (under a new name), but just as a general precaution to take care when renting from strangers. Nothing beats real life stories about the things that can and did go wrong.

 

[BurkeTribe]

Unfortunately, the fact that someone actually owns the points -- in and of itself -- doesn't mean you are assured that you will arrive with "room at the inn." The risk associated with renting from an unknown stranger is always there -- even if you received a copy of the reservation confirmation, the owner can cancel the reservation at any time prior to your checking in. The inherent risk in these transaction is why you can save so much money renting from an owner vs. renting direct from Disney. I just don't want people to be lulled under a false sense of security thinking that verifying ownership of the points is suffient guarantee.

The chance of an owner being crazy enough to do that is probably about the same chance as an error in a regular over-the-phone reservation, or less even because of the inherent paper/proof/responsibility trail. We personally will always call the resort a day or two before our trips no matter how the reservation is made. The worry associated with owner/renters cancelling on rentees is minuscule compared to the worry about scammers who don't even own any points. And any owner/renter crazy enough to cancel points at the last minute that a rentee has paid for (and gotten a decent contract or even a letter of agreement on) is probably going to get zotted in court for much more than the original rental price.

Supply and demand drives the prices of point rental market in general more than scam fears, at least on the lower end rentals of say $1200 or less... although those fears may be effecting the amount of demand, of course
But supply never seems to be lacking, at least not for the last couple of years for those renting well in advance(3-8 months).

 

[Inkmahm]

Oh yeah. PayPal is really a Pal, huh? I put PayPal in the same category as TicketMaster.

Paypal on its own won't save you necessarily but I pay my Paypal amounts due with a credit card. If you go directly to the credit card and let them know you didn't get what you paid for, they will revers the charge. At least they have in the past for me.

 

[Muushka]

Paypal on its own won't save you necessarily but I pay my Paypal amounts due with a credit card. If you go directly to the credit card and let them know you didn't get what you paid for, they will revers the charge. At least they have in the past for me.

Interesting. I wonder if the victim that used PayPal knew about this. There must be a time limit on this (dispute CC charge that month to reverse the charges). Do you have to dispute this when the PayPal bill comes? What if you don't know that you have been scammed by the time the CC bill comes?

 

[diznyfanatic]

Interesting. I wonder if the victim that used PayPal knew about this. There must be a time limit on this (dispute CC charge that month to reverse the charges). Do you have to dispute this when the PayPal bill comes? What if you don't know that you have been scammed by the time the CC bill comes?

First let me say that I'm truly sorry to see new victims in this story. I will continue to hope for a positive outcome for all.

Generally, if you have used a CC to fund your PayPal payment, you have 60 days to dispute a charge directly with your CC company. However, if you are using PayPal for the transaction, their internal policies require you to start the dispute with PayPal first.

However, be forewarned that PayPal's "investigation" often times may exceed the 60 day requirement of your CC company and often times even if they rule in your favor, the scammer has emptied their account and PayPal is unable to recover your funds.

You should therefore, keep a close eye on this 60 day dispute clock with your CC company while PayPal is performing their investigation and be prepared to initiate the dispute with your CC company just prior to this 60 day limit if you have not heard anything favorable from PayPal.

Also be aware that IF you do open a separate dispute with your CC company and circumvent PayPal, your PayPal account may be terminated but you are much more likely to recover your funds as PayPal generally loses when up against a credit card company.

If you have NOT used a CC card and simply used your PayPal account balance funds to pay for a transaction, you are stuck with following PayPal procedures only as this is basically like sending someone cash with slightly better protection.

This is again, why it is so important for buyers purchasing anything involving a significant amount of money to do their homework first and know who or what they are dealing with before any money changes hands.

This is of course why PayPal and some sellers (not all as there is a limit on the amount of credit card transactions a specific type of PayPal account may accept) prefer that you only use the funds in your balance to pay for transactions as there is no way to do a chargeback like when funding the payment with a credit card.

Hope that helps.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Well that's kind of a plus and a minus for Paypal. Renting points for a near future trip using a credit card through Paypal would be a plus. It's a minus for the owner because the client would have an option of disputing after the points have been used..and that would be a bit of a pain. What are the negatives to tying a credit card to your paypal account?

 

[diznyfanatic]

Well that's kind of a plus and a minus for Paypal. Renting points for a near future trip using a credit card through Paypal would be a plus. It's a minus for the owner because the client would have an option of disputing after the points have been used..and that would be a bit of a pain. What are the negatives to tying a credit card to your paypal account?

The most obvious is standard internet precaution and that is that if someone is successul in hacking into your PayPal account they then also have access to your credit card information.

The other negative is the potential for PayPal to rule against you in a dispute and if there are insufficient funds in your PayPal account, they would be able to pull the funds from your credit card or checking account if added.

The best advice I can offer when using PayPal is to open a separate bank account or charge account that is kept to a low balance or minimum and ONLY used for PayPal transactions and not tied to any of your primary checking or charge accounts.

When used this way and when users are fully knowledgeable about its use and risks, take the steps necessary to minimize loss by doing their homework first, PayPal is an easy and convenient way to send and receive funds.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I asked this a couple pages ago, and I'll ask it again...

Have ANY of the people scammed by this person contacted DVC? I would think at the very least, DVC would be able to put a hold on the membership during the time of an investigation. Perhaps even a legal representative or law enforcement official could be the ones who contact DVC. This is a membership being used in a fruadulent way, and DVC should be able to do something about it.

 

[CinderellaIam]

Wow, I stayed away from this thread for a week because it was just too upsetting. I came back to it today and just cannot believe that there are two more victims. Has this person now finally been banned completely from the boards??

To Sandy and Goofy4me, I am so, so sorry for your losses. Stacy and Dani have been in my thoughts and prayers that resolution finds them, and I will now add you to that list.

 

[Lasrnw]

Our industry is one that is notoriously hit by scams and our trade associations have always told us to report them to the Federal Trade Commission. This is a different product than ours but the end result is the same - money changed hands and no benefit was received. Has anyone tried there?

 

[Tinkerbellcrafter]

The chance of an owner being crazy enough to do that is probably about the same chance as an error in a regular over-the-phone reservation, or less even because of the inherent paper/proof/responsibility trail. We personally will always call the resort a day or two before our trips no matter how the reservation is made. The worry associated with owner/renters cancelling on rentees is minuscule compared to the worry about scammers who don't even own any points. And any owner/renter crazy enough to cancel points at the last minute that a rentee has paid for (and gotten a decent contract or even a letter of agreement on) is probably going to get zotted in court for much more than the original rental price.

Supply and demand drives the prices of point rental market in general more than scam fears, at least on the lower end rentals of say $1200 or less... although those fears may be effecting the amount of demand, of course
But supply never seems to be lacking, at least not for the last couple of years for those renting well in advance(3-8 months).

As new DVC members but Disney freaks, this thread has been very awful to read. I think it is a horrible thing that this person has done and when I found out she disappointed two little ones, I felt like I had been kicked. If this person is reading this, You should be completely ashamed of yourself, no matter how many problems are in your life.

Question regarding transfer of points vs. haveing the person make the reservation for you...will this deed research work and how about a signed contract as was suggested to me in another thread. We are planning a grand gathering for my Mother's 75th birthday and I intended to post on the R/T board for a large number of points....I would not want anyone to think that because I am new that I will be fraudulent.

My thoughts and prayers go to those that were cheated!

 

[Beca]

Wow, I stayed away from this thread for a week because it was just too upsetting. I came back to it today and just cannot believe that there are two more victims. Has this person now finally been banned completely from the boards??

To Sandy and Goofy4me, I am so, so sorry for your losses. Stacy and Dani have been in my thoughts and prayers that resolution finds them, and I will now add you to that list.

Yikes!! I stayed away too for the same reasons!! I am SOOO sorry this has happened to you. I noticed she has not posted under any of the two names I know for her. If anyone knows any other names, please pm me...I like keeping up on this stuff!!!

to all of you!!!

 

[jmatias]

This thread just seems to get worse. I'm so sorry for those "hurt" by this loser.

I truly believe in karma and someday/someway this person will have to pay her dues.

Sending prayers

If someone could pm me too known alias I would appreciate it.

Jen

 

[dvc at last !]

I also find the thread upsetting.

I believe what goes around - comes around.

 

[Sammie]

I asked this a couple pages ago, and I'll ask it again...

Have ANY of the people scammed by this person contacted DVC? I would think at the very least, DVC would be able to put a hold on the membership during the time of an investigation. Perhaps even a legal representative or law enforcement official could be the ones who contact DVC. This is a membership being used in a fruadulent way, and DVC should be able to do something about it.

DVC is not going to get involved at that level without a suponea. This is one of the reasons DVC stopped renters from calling MS to verify reservations. They are not going to get involved in private transactions.

I am as sorry as everyone that this has happened, but the only time DVC is going to put a hold on a membership is when the member owes Disney money or a criminal charge has been made.

The postal service is one of the best at following up on fraud, so hopefully they will catch her.

 

[goudaman40]

I know this may be a little off topic, but I am able to trade into DVC by going through our Interval International trades. The reason why I bring this up, is I have rented / traded for our friends.

I have considered doing trades through our timeshare boards we belong to, but I have been really skeptical on doing this. We have been able to trade into Disney without a problem, but we are really flexible on our times, we always look for January - May then August - December. We just booked our May trip and were able to book VWL for some friends of ours during the last part of May.

The reason why I bring this up, is this is an option for potential renters. After having my own "scares" through e-bay (from both buyers and sellers) I am skeptical of dealing with strangers without being able to have a feedback reading as I do in e-bay. My heart goes out to the victims and all I can say is this person will be caught and eventually receive the punishment they deserve.

I dealt with a seller on e-bay, bought a laptop and I was one of the "lucky" ones that received their laptop. I feel sorry for the people that were messed over, but I can tell you this person is serving federal time and was brought to court for postal mail fraud and the people that were scammed did receive a portion of their funds back. It was a Paypal, e-bay, square trade repayment arrangement. It did take over 8 months for the person to get a court date, but this person and the people that were scammed did get justice.

Here is wishing you pixie dust to a speedy and justified ending.

Goudaman40

 

[dianeschlicht]

I know this may be a little off topic, but I am able to trade into DVC by going through our Interval International trades. The reason why I bring this up, is I have rented / traded for our friends.

I have considered doing trades through our timeshare boards we belong to, but I have been really skeptical on doing this. We have been able to trade into Disney without a problem, but we are really flexible on our times, we always look for January - May then August - December. We just booked our May trip and were able to book VWL for some friends of ours during the last part of May.

You need to be aware, that renting out II trades is against II rules.

 

[dianeschlicht]

DVC is not going to get involved at that level without a suponea. This is one of the reasons DVC stopped renters from calling MS to verify reservations. They are not going to get involved in private transactions.

I am as sorry as everyone that this has happened, but the only time DVC is going to put a hold on a membership is when the member owes Disney money or a criminal charge has been made.

The postal service is one of the best at following up on fraud, so hopefully they will catch her.

I'm sorry to hear that, but also not surprised. Mail fraud is hard to catch too. We once got "robbed" of about $500 when we purchased something on Ebay where the person listing the item absconded with the money, disappeared and never surfaced again. His address and personal information listed with Ebay was all bogus. We filed a mail fraud case, but they were never able to locate him.