Sad Story from One Who Trusted without Checking!

[skibum]

It sounds like things will work out for you.
Thank you for the education.
I look forward to hearing this was resolved.
Good luck.

 

[rie'smom]

I checked the R/T board just now and there are a couple of people renting pts with very low post numbers. The peculiar thing,to me,is that some of the people PMing also have very low post numbers. It would be very easy for someone to set up multiple accounts on the DIS.All they need is different email addresses -you can have many at one time on yahoo,etc. It could be that scammers have "discovered" the DIS. I'm sorry that this OP had problems but she sure showed me the light.No way will I rent or transfer pts unless I personally know the other person.

 

[Sammie]

I checked the R/T board just now and there are a couple of people renting pts with very low post numbers. The peculiar thing,to me,is that some of the people PMing also have very low post numbers. It would be very easy for someone to set up multiple accounts on the DIS.All they need is different email addresses -you can have many at one time on yahoo,etc. It could be that scammers have "discovered" the DIS. I'm sorry that this OP had problems but she sure showed me the light.No way will I rent or transfer pts unless I personally know the other person.

I agree and I think something some are missing regardless of how many safeguards you take, unless you personally know the person you are renting from there is an element of risk to all the transactions.

Which is why the price is such a good deal. One has to determine if the savings is worth the risk. Many have had very good experiences renting from unknowns but they took a chance and were lucky.

I appreciate the OP being brave enough to share her experience and hopefully others will learn from it.

 

[JimMIA]

If this is not the first time this DISer has had problem rental transactions here, then perhaps she needs a banning (permanent or temporary) from the R/T board).

As Doc said, the DIS was not aware of the first situation because it was resolved satisfactorily by the parties, as far as I know.

I think we need to recognize that there is a huge difference between a problematic transaction and fraud. There is also a huge difference between having a problem and violating DIS rules.

Most of the problematic situations we see in rentals are either sloppy business practices or misunderstandings between the parties (or the ever-popular Combo of both!). Many times neither party fully understands what they are doing. We really can't expect the DIS to protect all parties from those kinds of situations, nor should they take sides in disputes between members.

The DIS can and should enforce their rules, but I don't see how we can reasonably expect them to be the rental police. They've said pretty emphatically that they are not going to play that role.

My hat is off to Doc for helping, especially while on vacation!

 

[Mtnman44]

There are a lot of red flags that came together in this situation. Taken all together, I'd be shocked if you money shows up ever. If it is fraud, the only suprising thing is the fact that the person has made any contact at all since getting the cash. I guess there is a small chance but still.....

-New forum member, little history
-required Western Union
-Forgets ID
-Mother died

that's quite a combination of coincidence.


I didn't see anyone mention this, but what about using an ESCROW service for renting points? Seems worth it.

 

[fabshelly]

How about not renting from someone unless they provide at least three genuine references?

 

[TCPluto]

Actually, a LOT can be done today. Member Services is open this afternoon, the transfer can take place. Police could contact the Western Union office and begin a preliminary investigation with the name of the person and surveillance footage (before it is erased), the OP could check the Orange County deed site to see if the name on the caller ID actually owns points.

Actually, probably not so much. Like Jim said, we're not sure what we have here as yet, and that's how the police would look at it.

Here's a little known fact for you about Western Union. You can send the money to someone in Orlando FL. As soon as the transaction is in the computer, that person can go to the WU office of their choice, any where in te world, and collect the money. Many, if not most, WU centers are in other stores , (party stores, convenience stores, etc) which have a remote possibility of having a camera.

Any records check of WU, cell phone company, or DVC (or DISboards for that matter) would have to be with a court order. That's not going to happen on the weekend, neither the court order nor the records search.

There are more problems than this, but that's just the start.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Wow, I missed a LOT today! So sorry for the OPs experience, but it sounds like it was a learning experience, and that's always a good thing too. Hope you get your money back on Monday, and hope the owner is being honest about everything.

 

[SUSIEQ]

Hope everything turns out ok!

 

[Patty3]

I really hope you get your money back on Monday.

 

[Lasrnw]

I have had such great experiences renting and tranfserring points - I'm so sorry this has caused a problem. While no transaction is 100% guaranteed I'm wondering if their is a way that when you have a pleasant transaction with someone you can give them a star somewhere - maybe on their profile? Their signature?

 

[Cruelladeville]

I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles! I, too, was unaware that someone who asks for $$ from Western Union was a red flag. I recently had a similar issue with the purchase of a timeshare. And, like you, I was trusting--I sent $5000.00(hope that makes you feel just a tiny bit better!). I contacted the authorities, but I found out you can't claim fraud until you have given the seller a chance to do the right thing (which you did). In my case, I have to wait 10 days to see if the seller mails the paperwork to me. In the mean time, reading your post has made me feel slightly better that I am not alone in this, I hope that my story makes you feel a little better, too. I always thought using Western Union was a good thing. Most of the time the money is sent/picked up at places like Walgreen's or Walmart, where they don't usually make a video of the transactions.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I guess I'm just stupid but in the case of this transaction I don't see the use of Western Union as being such a bad thing. The OP was purchasing points from the problematic person (PP for short). PP requested 50% in cash via wire transfer before completing the point transfer with the OP. This seems reasonable to me. Wouldn't most of you renting points via transfer want to have SOMETHING in hand before performing a transaction that is irreversible?

So on Monday they'd get on the phone, MS would transfer the points and OP sends the rest of the cash via whatever method. At this point PP is on tenterhooks waiting for the cash to arrive (and to avoid ripoff). I only see a couple major mistakes here.

1) It doesn't look like the OP had the PP's contract number in hand before wiring the money. At least with that you could cross reference some information about the person through the Orange County records. And the contract number shows up in the transaction records of the two parties on the member website anyway so its not like its a big secret (at least I think that's the case, I've only been on the sending end).

2) Why the rush? 50% via snail mail using a regular check, certified check or money order would still allow plenty of time to make the reservation (the checks being made on a bank available to both parties locally). The lack of ID wouldn't have been your problem either. By the time it shows up she should have taken care of business.

Beyond that it would have been extraordinarily considerate if the PP had called but I guarentee you this transaction would not have been the first thing on my mind if I'd been walking in her shoes. I think the OP has done the right thing to wait and hope that things worked out. Any rental arrangement has the potential to go awry just like many other contracts between two people.

Note: Paypal lets you get your money semi immediately but it puts some interesting complications on that money. For bigger amounts like DVC amounts I think traditional methods would work better.

 

[FayeW]

I'm very sorry you've had this experience. This is exactly the scenario that kept me from renting points a few months ago. I was checking the R/T board frequently, and it seemed to me that there were an inordinate number of brand new Disboard members with points for rent! Even though everyone on here are complete strangers, there is some (perhaps false) security in dealing with people who are well known and well respected (here on the boards, at least). There are several posters who I would happily pay in full immediately, but not people with low post counts!

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Post your outcome in your original post in nice big bright letters. That way people don't read and say omigosh! and rush to post their tidbit, outrage or whatever.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I know zilch when it comes to renting points. I'm glad you posted your experience. I do hope you get your money back on Monday.


If you get the, "I can get it to you on Thursday" routine, pushing deadlines again-- you know the deal has gone further south. Please pursue the matter legally if you don't get your money. ::cop: People shouldn't get away with scamming others. When they are successful, it gives them incentive to keep doing it.

Good luck!!

 

[Monte Cristo]

I'm also hoping your situation gets resolved and you get your money back.

 

[KingOMiami]

Sorry to hear of your bad experience! As others have mentioned, I think it would have been hard for most not to notice the red flags either, especially all caught up in the moment.

Now, to play devil's advocate, I hope that something did not happen to this person. If this was a scam though, I hope that the DIS admins will ban this person's IP address. It is an extremely small consolation, but at least it will stop this person from doing this again. I don't know how it works, but if you kept the transcripts of your PM's, perhaps you could seek some sort of legal action?

I understand the DIS board folks have the R/T board for members but at the same time they should help to ensure that these things do not happen.

Your experience is enough for me to not want to rent points now

 

[DMKEDM]

I don't know how to do bright letters, quotes, emoticons, et al (I could learn, but have no particular "urge" to do so)...I do, however, sympathize, w/folks who will want to know the outcome w/out having to sort through pages of thread comments...

Shall I start a new thread (especially if it's a positive resolution)? Or would it be better to just post at the end (at the time) of this thread? Or I guess I could do both...opinions?

One more comment from me: I, too, am a low post count person (altho this thread has upp'ed the totals by a lot!!!!)...I'm relatively new to Disboards, and to DVC ownership...I think a low post count is a red flag--a sign that further checking is needed ... but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing...we all have to start somewhere and it will (in the normal course of events) take a while to build up a post count! It will also be very hard to get 3 satisfied recommendations (or whatever) without first being able to rent 3 times...there has to be a beginning for all of us...

And, I did suggest a check or money order...I even suggested a bank-to-bank transfer of money...she insisted on Western Union...I believe that is what made it the red flag...not Western Union itself, but unwillingness to consider other more conventional methods of money delivery...

I like the escrow idea, and the idea of a place where renters (both providers and users of points; I guess both are renters!) can post about good experience with each other...don't know how to do it, but would gladly participate in such a "program."

Once again, I thank everyone for their ideas and support--and even for the criticism...only one or two comments felt like unjustified "attacks"...there was enough truth in pretty much all of them that even the critical ones, altho they stung, added to my learning experience with this.

I'll post next week--as close as possible to as soon as the money arrives (if it arrives), or by Tuesday if it doesn't...no idea how to do a poll, either, so I'll just "count" if people express a preference for a new thread, or continuation of this thread, or both as their preferred way of finding out about the outcome...

 

[OceanAnnie]

Post your outcome in your original post in nice big bright letters. That way people don't read and say omigosh! and rush to post their tidbit, outrage or whatever.

I think this is a good idea! Once you have the new information, you could edit your title of the thread to read UPDATE: Pg. 1 (or something) Renting Points w/o checking. And just put your update on your first post at the end.

Just my .02.