Rush Resigns

[Geoff_M]

When a race is brought into something where it doesn't apply, it's racist.

And what is the rule as to whether it applies or not?

 

[dmadman43]

For the record, I think it was an extreamly racist remark, as do most of the people I know. There are some that feel that anything Rush says is gold. I don't happen to agree.

I've still yet to see anyone defend Dusty Baker's comments he made last July. (the links have been provided). How were his comments not "racist"? Is that because Dusty Baker is Black?


Do you deny that there is a certain overtone within the sports press that wants to see black quarterbacks succeed?

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by CRB#33
When a race is brought into something where it doesn't apply, it's racist.

IMO of course.

So, now the definitions of words are open to opinion? You mean we don't have to use the definitions in the dictionary? We can just make up our own definitions to fit our own agendas?

How convenient...

 

[bsnyder]

After being a die hard fan of the Buccaneers for years, I was certainly among the ELATED here in Tampa when we finally won the Super Bowl.

But I admit that I had a certain wistfulness, that I would rather have had Tony Dungy as the winning coach of the team, instead of Jon Gruden.

Part of that is because Tony Dungy was a wonderful, caring family man who was a special part of our community.

Part of that was because I think black coaches have been discriminated against in the NFL and I want to see a black coach win the Super Bowl.

Is that racist, to want to see that achievement?

 

[CarolA]

He's a sports analyst

WHAT???? Since when! Getting hired by ESPN to make a fool of yourself does NOT qualify you as a Sports Analyst. He was a FAN with no more qualificaitions then I have and hiring him was a stupid move in the first place. I want to hear someone who knows something about football on that show.

 

[CRB#33]

Brenda, for clarification, it's not the definition that is my opinion. I'm not a stupid person. And I also don't throw opinions around for my convenience.

It's my opinion that a racial issue was brought into a situation where it didn't belong. (BTW, this has nothing to do with my convenience.) I apologize for not clarifying this.

Geoff, the answer to that question is in my first reply to this thread. If you don't see it there, you don't want to.

*edit to add* Rule? I haven't read a "rule" book that applies to racism. There have been many black quarterbacks that the press has not made an issue out of. If the media or the NFL was trying to promote a quarterback just because of his race, they would have done it long before now. So why is Rush saying that they are now?

Bet, of course not. Are you comparing that to Rush's statement?

 

[Lanshark]

I've still yet to see anyone defend Dusty Baker's comments he made last July. (the links have been provided). How were his comments not "racist"? Is that because Dusty Baker is Black?

dmadman
You're correct Baker's comments were not addressed.
It's because Baker's comments cannot be defended as not being racial. He brought race into a situation where race was not part of the issue. He defended his statements by saying that a black man can get away with saying something about another black man. He never did back away from his original comments and did not cave into media pressure to do so.

By the way GO CUBS!!!

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by CRB#33
It's my opinion than a racial issue was brought into a situation where it didn't belong. (BTW, this has nothing to do with my convenience.)

Bet, of course not. Are you comparing that to Rush's statement?

If you do a google search on "black quarterbacks in the NFL" you'll find many, many articles (by sports writers and non sportswriters) that discuss just that subject.

So the issue was already there, long before Rush opened his big mouth. And it's still there, even though he's resigned from ESPN.

Yes, I'm comparing it to Rush's statement. He was saying that most sportswriters have the same type of wish that I do, to see black quarterbacks (or in the specific instance that I gave, black coaches) succeed in the NFL, and that because of that wish, they may have overrated Donovan McNabb. He didn't say they may have overrated ALL black quarterbacks. He didn't say Donovan McNabb isn't an NFL caliber quarterback.

He was giving his opinion of Donovan McNabb's performance, which is what sports analysts do for a living. He then was giving his opinion on WHY he thinks McNabb has been overrated by sportscasters....because they want him to succeed (in the same way I want Dungy to succeed), they've given him higher marks than his performance has deserved.

As I said before, I want to see Tony Dungy succeed because I think black coaches have been discriminated against in the NFL. It's only a matter of time before a black coach WILL win the Super Bowl. But until it happens, I'll wish for it. And I'll particularly wish for it to be Tony Dungy, because I like the man. Sportswriters are fans too, and they have that same wish, for the same reason I do, but also because for them, it makes a better story to write about!

That's what I think. I must admit that it does pain me a bit, to feel that by making these statements, and admitting my wish, that some on here will think I'm a racist. But I know that I'm not, so I guess I can't worry about what others are going to wrongly think of me.

 

[CRB#33]

Well, I will agree to disagree with you then.

I believe that Donovan has been overrated and overpaid. But, I don't believe it's because he's black.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by CRB#33
Well, I will agree to disagree with you then.

I believe that Donovan has been overrated and overpaid. But, I don't believe it's because he's black.

Do you mind telling me why you think he's been overrated?

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by CRB#33
Well, I will agree to disagree with you then.

I believe that Donovan has been overrated and overpaid. But, I don't believe it's because he's black.

Why do you think he has been overrated and overpaid?

 

[CRB#33]

Once again this is my opinion and I am well aware that you are chomping at the bit to jump on anything I may not get 100% right.

Suffice to say that I don't think he is overrated because of his race.

His performance the past three games, especially the first two was dismal. Absolutely awful. Hence overrated.

He redeemed himself somewhat this past Sunday. We'll see what he does the rest of the season. One way or the other, I believe he's overpaid.

And to tell you the truth, I think many atheletes are overpaid, but that's a whole other debate.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by CRB#33
Once again this is my opinion and I am well aware that you are chomping at the bit to jump on anything I may not get 100% right.

If that's directed at me, I promise you that's not the case.

 

[CRB#33]

No Bet, never mind. I apologize for saying that.

I get a little nervous debating with seasoned debators. LOL

 

[Geoff_M]

Geoff, the answer to that question is in my first reply to this thread. If you don't see it there, you don't want to.

I see it just fine. Your list is a subjective list. Ask ten differnet people, and get 8 different answers. So who is the final arbitor of when race may or may not apply?

 

[CRB#33]

How about your heart and soul being the final arbitrator?

That's where I look when I think I'm not being fair to the people of this world.

And for me, that's good enough. I only hope I measure up to the One who is judging me.

Good night.

 

[boomer1961]

OK. I'm a 41 year old African American and like Robin said earlier, you have to expect Rush to be Rush. I was offended by his comment. But I'm offended by much of what Rush says. So I don't listen to him on the radio. I had watched him on ESPN, but wasn't watching when he said this. I knew he couldn't just talk about the game.Makes you think he doesn't want to see African Americans do well, but he never actually said that. Like my friend Fred used to say -- opinions are like rear ends -- everybody has one and they all stink.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by boomer1961
.Makes you think he doesn't want to see African Americans do well, but he never actually said that.

Well, if he never actually said it, how do you know he thinks that?

And I found at least one black commentator that is agreeing with what I've been saying in this thread (of course he says it much more eloquently than I have :

By Armstrong Williams

In America in 2003, black people can talk openly about race. They can admit to identifying with black cultural icons. They can admit to having black pride. They can even drop the N-bomb. White corporate America cannot. The result is a racial double standard that threatens our ability to talk openly about the very serious topic of race relations.

Case in point: Conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh recently resigned from his job on the ESPN National Football League pre-game show after making racially charged comments about Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb. "The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well," said Limbaugh. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

If Limbaugh had been blessed with dark skin like me, there is little doubt that he would still be working for ESPN. In fact, he probably would have been given a raise for adding kick to ESPN's floundering pre-game show. But Limbaugh is white. So he was forced out for playing the race card.

Of course, Limbaugh is no stranger to hyperbole. Exaggeration and paranoid finger wagging are the reasons for the better part of his success as a radio personality. And that is why he was hired - to shock people into paying attention.

Still, one has to wonder, what precisely did Limbaugh insinuate that was so wrong? That the NFL has ethnic double standards? Of course it does! This past year the NFL instituted a new policy that will enact sanctions against teams that fail to interview minorities for vacant coaching positions. Critics of the policy raised very legitimate concerns of whether trotting out black coaching candidates for token interviews might do more harm than good. After all, you can force an owner to interview a black coach, but you can't force him to hire one. Would the repeated rejection of certain black candidates actually do harm to their reputations?

These are serious questions, and ones that the NFL never seriously addressed. Instead, they plowed forward with the policy for a very simple reason: We - NFL policymakers, fans and media - want black athletes and coaches to have equal opportunity. At this late date, we realize that black athletes and coaches have traditionally been denied certain opportunities. It was easy for white coaches to succeed when they had other white coaches from whom they could learn and white owners willing to give them a chance. Society did not offer black coaches this same opportunity.

So, is it racist to mandate that black coaches at least get interviewed? Of course. It seeks to assuage the problem of racism in the past by practicing reverse-racial preferences now. These sorts of preferences define all the members of a fixed group by skin color. By extension, the policy implicitly accepts the notion of creditor and debtor race. Nowhere does the U.S. Constitution make allowances for such classifications. Still we support the policy. We want it to succeed.

Many of us feel the same way toward black quarterbacks. Radio talk show host Russ Parr recently told me he roots for Michael Vick, not because he has any roots in Atlanta, but "because Vick is black." What Parr knows, and what anyone who gives the matter any thought realizes, is that until recently, few black athletes were given an opportunity to play quarterback. Many suffered because coaches and owners assumed that they lacked teamwork skills and were not intelligent enough for the position.

For decades white owners and coaches were incapable of thinking outside of their own limited cultural experience. This even holds true with regard to raw athletic ability. Black quarterbacks that did not fit the mold of a traditional pocket passer were squeezed into other positions. (A decade ago, Michael Vick would have likely been forced to play cornerback, receiver or running back. In all likelihood his career would have been cut short by injury. This is what black athletes endured until very recently.)

We - the media, owners and members of society - want that to change. We get particularly excited when we think a black athlete is opening new doors. Donovan McNabb is the perfect example. Other quarterbacks have better numbers, but McNabb comes up big in big games. For his career he has a nearly 2-to-1 ratio of touchdowns to interceptions. He has been to three straight Pro Bowls and two consecutive NFC championship games. Plainly, he's a good quarterback. And he's black. For these two reasons we want him to succeed.

Black people have no problem admitting this. Callers during my recent appearance on the Russ Parr radio show talked openly about how they want blacks to succeed in areas where they were traditionally denied equal opportunity. Get it? They want Donovan McNabb to succeed because he's black. Most of society feels the same way. But if a white guy brings up this racial double standard he will be labeled a "racist" and fired.

It seems ironic - and more to the point, harmful - that we have become so conscious of past racism, that we can no longer talk openly about it, or even raise the issue to consciousness for genuine examination. That helps no one.

 

[Bob O]

Boomer, so apparently when Rush often has Walter E Williams as his fill-in talk show host he doesnt want him to do well and succeed.
And for Robin, im sure you are against affirmative action polices and make sure your son is against them due to their racial bias/racist motives and the fact they go against any notion of a colorblind society and judge people not on the content of their character but soley on the color of ones skin.
I think Rush left to save abc/espn the coming antics of another tawana brawley type espidoe led on by the supposed reverend sharpton. Rush stepped down to the benefit of abc/espn who wouldnt want to deal with it and wouldnt have backed him up if he had held firm.
Rush's only mistake was too believe in today's pc climate that you could be honest with your beliefs and not be attacked by the race baiting industry that has sprung up looking to be offended and then using racist groups like the rainbow coalition/jesse jackson/naalcp to pounce on advertisers.
Under the current climate in the pc world we live in a person of color can say whatever they want with impunity but if someone who isnt liberal says something silimiar they will be savaged. One of them will be called a racist/bigot, the other one will be applauded.
And the link to the armstrong coloumn says it much better than i can!!!!! But of course he will be called a uncle tom/sellout becuase his views are different than those of the naalcp.

 

[pacerpride]

My thoughts......I was shocked when he was hired....I was thinking what a stupid idea of hiring Rush.....I guess I was right...he didn't even last as long as Dennis Miller....ESPN....get a CLUE!!!

Why would anyone think Rush would be good? Except for the fact they wanted controversy??? Go figure!

Anyways....I say GOOD RIDDANCE!