Run/Walk/Run discussion

[The Expert]

At the request of @FlyingDonut and @nancipants I'm starting this thread as a home base to discuss the run/walk/run method -- training and race strategies, questions, discussions, advice and results.

 

[nancipants]

Hooray! I love run/walk/run and it's the only way I've been able to run longer distances. Right now, I'm experimenting with interval time/speed to try to get a half marathon POT.

 

[Dopey 2020]

https://race-planner.com/run-walk-calculator

I will leave this here then, posted it in a couple threads, I’ve found it to be the best calculator for playing around with different times and paces to solve for whatever you would like. Overall pace, running pace, running time, etc. It has helped me set target paces that were right on in the real world.

 

[nancipants]

I also use this calculator. I like the UI better, but I like that you can specify seconds on the one linked above and not have to convert everything to minutes. http://www.mypacecalculator.com/runwalk.html

 

[rick1zoo2]

Very interesting topic and I am wanting to learn more from others about it. And so far it sounds like I should train with it if I am to use it correctly. I normally do not use it in training, but I am learning to not be afraid of taking walk breaks (along with just slowing down) and walking downhills to help with a knee ITBS thing.


I am going to repost something I put in the Springtime Surprise thread which is my internal debate about using RWR and being strict about it, or maybe using it when needed:

To join in the RWR discussion, I have successfully used the RWR method for the longer distances at the WDW races, but beginning to wonder if I might do better by having much longer stretches of just running. For the Princess Half, I was targeting a finish time and knew what overall pace I needed to get that, using a 90/30 R/W ratio. It worked fine, but there were times when it felt like I had to go really fast during the run portions to make up for the walks and ramping up from the walks was sometimes tough - could really feel my calves protesting. Then because of the bottleneck around Polynesian construction and especially the path between Grand Floridian and Magic Kingdom, I fell behind the pace. After Magic Kingdom on the road, I began stretching out the run portions, even sometimes just skipping the walk. I eventually clawed back the lost time and finished under my target time and was very happy with that.
Looking at the run in the COROS app, I was doing a lot of the runs fast - under 10:00, I even see a few 9:26, 9:37, etc. The way I like to run is to lock into a steady pace and rhythm and like a metronome just grind away, there is something just very satisfying about that. Now I know Galloway says to do the RWR from the very first mile, but I am thinking maybe I do a hybrid - get a nice steady pace, especially on the wide open roads, then use the RWR when I need to, walk through water stations, etc.

 

[FlyingDonut]

Thanks for making this!

Do y'all use a specific run / walk / run resource? I went through a 2 week phase consuming as much Galloway content that didn't require a subscription (shout out to my library and used books online) as possible. Galloway has made a ton of stuff over the years and the nitty gritty of some seems like it sometimes conflicts.

My current half marathon training plan is mostly from his Galloway's Book on Running 3rd edition.

 

[DianaMB333]

I started running (run/walking) just 3yrs ago… it has been a lot of trial and error..

A) Running fast in the run portions, walking to catch my breath (sort of 30/30secs)I feel more tired at the end, although usually the race time is better than the next two approaches.

B) Almost same pace running/walking (sort of 15/30secs): I feel very good at the end; recovery is faster. Sometimes is like a leisure stroll being more mindful of people, entertainment etc.

C) Running for a longer time than walking (sort of 90/30) but keeping pace in zone 2: I have done it only in training so far but will do more of this in this cycle. Recovery is easy, not as east as B but better than A.

D) just running. My body aches for days and days.

Bear in mind that I don't really care of PR or finish time target; I am happy not being swept and being able to have 4-6ish photos.. and no feel any pain

 

[nostalgic4disney]

I’m so glad this thread was started. I have not read any of the previous threads and would love to hear everyone’s advice and experiences.

When I trained for my 1/2 I over did it. It was my first and was scared I wouldn’t have the endurance. Sooo on days I should have ran a short time or distance I was running 6 miles. Well I developed ITBS. Even with resting it 3 weeks prior to the race it kicked in after mile 1. I did finish the race even though I hobbled the whole way.

So know I’m looking at RWR method. I’ve found that it feels like I’m using more energy when I go from walking back to running. So I’ve modified it a little. I listen to music and in between songs i walk. This seems to be easier.

Would love to hear suggestions

 

[PeppercornElvis]

I absolutely love the run/walk method for training! I've used it while training for every one of my Dopey training programs, starting in 2019 for the 2020 Dopey. I tried using it during the Dopey event itself, but discovered it was easier for me to use the character stops, water breaks, bathroom breaks, etc. for breaking up my running.

I did use it for a non-Disney marathon last Fall, and was able to set a marathon PR with it! I use 90 seconds run, 30 seconds walk.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what others share in this thread!

 

[sandam1]

Do y'all use a specific run / walk / run resource? I went through a 2 week phase consuming as much Galloway content that didn't require a subscription (shout out to my library and used books online) as possible. Galloway has made a ton of stuff over the years and the nitty gritty of some seems like it sometimes conflicts.

Personally, I learn everything from Chris Twiggs, head of the Galloway Customized Training program and the best running coach EVER. CTP is, by far, the best money that I spend on my running. If anyone is interested in CTP, I'm happy to answer questions or point you in the direction of a discount code.

But yes, Jeff's recommendations have also changed over in various ways over the past 50 years and there is a lot of "old" material out there. My way of sorting things out is to look at the production date first and then to see whether it mentions a walk break longer than 30 seconds. If it does, it's old. It might still have some relevance, but I know that it isn't the most up-to-date plan either.

While this extra step does make things confusing at times, personally I'm impressed by how Jeff is constantly listening and learning and tweaking things to get better results for his runners. Too many plans are static and don't keep up with new advances in understanding how the human body works.

 

[radiodome21]

This is great stuff. The longest races I've run before were 5ks, where I would run at a constant pace. I used to run 3 miles around our neighborhood at a constant pace too and it was tiring. When we signed up for the 10k this weekend I downloaded the provided Galloway training program. I didn't do the magic mile since I was already running and knew I was about an 11 mile/minute person so when I started training I was doing 60/30. Then I bumped up to 90/30, and now am doing 3 minutes running and 1 minute walking. I've been wondering if that's too long; though when I did 6.5 mile run on Friday and I felt pretty good. In fact I definitely felt better than I did when I would run for 3 miles at a constant pace.

 

[Naomeri]

This is great stuff. The longest races I've run before were 5ks, where I would run at a constant pace. I used to run 3 miles around our neighborhood at a constant pace too and it was tiring. When we signed up for the 10k this weekend I downloaded the provided Galloway training program. I didn't do the magic mile since I was already running and knew I was about an 11 mile/minute person so when I started training I was doing 60/30. Then I bumped up to 90/30, and now am doing 3 minutes running and 1 minute walking. I've been wondering if that's too long; though when I did 6.5 mile run on Friday and I felt pretty good. In fact I definitely felt better than I did when I would run for 3 miles at a constant pace.

If a ratio works for you, then it's not too long

 

[The Expert]

This is great stuff. The longest races I've run before were 5ks, where I would run at a constant pace. I used to run 3 miles around our neighborhood at a constant pace too and it was tiring. When we signed up for the 10k this weekend I downloaded the provided Galloway training program. I didn't do the magic mile since I was already running and knew I was about an 11 mile/minute person so when I started training I was doing 60/30. Then I bumped up to 90/30, and now am doing 3 minutes running and 1 minute walking. I've been wondering if that's too long; though when I did 6.5 mile run on Friday and I felt pretty good. In fact I definitely felt better than I did when I would run for 3 miles at a constant pace.

I agree with @Naomeri that whatever feels right is right. But a lot of run-walkers change up intervals depending on the type of training run and length of race. Most of my training and my shorter races are at 60/30. Longer training runs I do 30/30. Half marathons or longer are also usually 30/30, though I may start out at 60/30 if conditions are good.

 

[sandam1]

I'm going to copy a post that I made in another thread, primarily because I think that the information is important for people who are thinking about run/walk or new to the method to know. My apologies to those who have already seen it.

One thing that I find a lot of people get wrong about r/w/r intervals (I know that I did) is thinking the interval predicts the pace. In fact, it is the other way around. It's all about the pace (about that pace, about that pace - c'mon, you know that you want to sing it ) You decide what pace you are looking to hit (based on the Magic Mile calculator and the objective of the workout) and then find the intervals that get you to that pace most comfortably and expending the least amount of energy.

For instance, I can hit my half marathon pace with anywhere between a 15 to 45 second run and 30 second walk. However, at 15 seconds, I'm expending a lot of energy because I'm almost sprinting on the run. At 45 seconds, I'm also expending too much energy by running for too long of a stretch. For me, the sweet spot is between 20-30 second runs.

Now, when I'm on the treadmill, I will adjust these ratios to avoid going up and down (and up and down) as often. But my overall pace is the same no matter what mechanism I use to get there.

 

[nancipants]

Yeah, my ratios for "faster" runs are actually shorter because I naturally try to sprint (used to be a sprinter a long long long time ago in high school, and when playing sports I always was super fast for short bursts but didn't have endurance), but I can't keep up those paces very long. So in my training runs, I can do the entire thing continuously on the treadmill, or do 60/30 outside, but when I want to be "fast," I do 30/30. I tested out intervals during this training plan and was always faster when I did 30/30 as opposed to a higher ratio. I try not to question it anymore!

 

[Dopey 2020]

One thing that I find a lot of people get wrong about r/w/r intervals (I know that I did) is thinking the interval predicts the pace.

I’d agree on this, I think it’s because most that look at RWR are new to it, maybe even new to running, and go straight to Jeff Galloways site with ‘suggested’ intervals for a particular pace. While he is the undisputed king of RWR, it is important to know suggestions are just that, and you have to play around to find out what works for you at this time.
Maybe you want to sprint for a short time then walk or maybe you jog for a lengthy interval and then walk, you can get the same average pace either way
And you need to know that what works now might not be optimum in a couple years, depending on if you are just looking to run a couple races or if you get into a steady habit and start really improving.

 

[rick1zoo2]

To follow up on my prior post about my internal debate on the race strategy, this is a bit of a recap of the Springtime Surprise 10 Mile from April 6.

After talking with Dopey 2020 prior to the race, the idea of what to do clicked. I ran most of the race using a 3 minute run / 30 second walk. But I also did some long stretches where I got into a nice pace and skipped a few walk breaks. I also walked through the water stations and some of the uphills. We started right next to the 1:50 pacers who were going to do 60/30 intervals, but I moved on from them. On the uphill just before mile 8 the pace group caught up to me and I did a few intervals with them. I noticed that their run interval was fast and I definitely needed the walks to recover from those. So, I went back to doing my own thing and left them behind. And since there was less than 2 miles to go, I upped my pace. I still had gas in the tank and the last mile was my fastest (no walks). I had several targets to aim for, depending on how I felt and the weather: first was to be under 2 hours. I knew I could do that based on my half marathon best from Princess weekend as it would be the same pace. The next goal was 1:50 which would be a minute per mile faster. My stretch goal was 1:45 which would get POT for Dopey Challenge. I ended up 1:47:11, which I am very happy about. In hindsight, there were a few things I wish I would have done different - I couldn't get a gel out of my belt before one of the water stops, and I had to stop after I got my cup, to put that down and get the gel out. I figure that might have cost me about a minute and I might have got under the 1:46 cut-off for the Dopey POT. But again, it's all learning and I was happy with it. But I do think the 3 minute run / 30 second walk worked well for me.

On the chart below, you can see the walk breaks,

 

[Baloo in MI]

I was a high school and college track runner. So long after my track days I still saw walking as cheating. Never a judgement thing, I just felt if I was walking I was not trying my hardest. All fine and dandy, except a runner in their forties and significantly heavier than the track athlete I had been at 22 led to me pushing too hard and the outcome you can guess. I blew out my paroneal tendon. Led to surgery and a long recovery and PT journey.

My PT got me into r/w/r. I never looked backed! That was 2019, I have had no serious injuries since. I use 2:00/:30 for 10k & 5k and 1:30/:30 for anything longer. Though sometimes in long slow training runs I use 3:00/:30.

I really enjoy running more, recover quickly and although slower than I was pre-injury I am just so happy to be running! I swear by r/w/r now and am so happy with it!

 

[Dopey 2020]

To follow up on my prior post about my internal debate on the race strategy, this is a bit of a recap of the Springtime Surprise 10 Mile from April 6.

After talking with Dopey 2020 prior to the race, the idea of what to do clicked. I ran most of the race using a 3 minute run / 30 second walk. But I also did some long stretches where I got into a nice pace and skipped a few walk breaks. I also walked through the water stations and some of the uphills. We started right next to the 1:50 pacers who were going to do 60/30 intervals, but I moved on from them. On the uphill just before mile 8 the pace group caught up to me and I did a few intervals with them. I noticed that their run interval was fast and I definitely needed the walks to recover from those. So, I went back to doing my own thing and left them behind. And since there was less than 2 miles to go, I upped my pace. I still had gas in the tank and the last mile was my fastest (no walks). I had several targets to aim for, depending on how I felt and the weather: first was to be under 2 hours. I knew I could do that based on my half marathon best from Princess weekend as it would be the same pace. The next goal was 1:50 which would be a minute per mile faster. My stretch goal was 1:45 which would get POT for Dopey Challenge. I ended up 1:47:11, which I am very happy about. In hindsight, there were a few things I wish I would have done different - I couldn't get a gel out of my belt before one of the water stops, and I had to stop after I got my cup, to put that down and get the gel out. I figure that might have cost me about a minute and I might have got under the 1:46 cut-off for the Dopey POT. But again, it's all learning and I was happy with it. But I do think the 3 minute run / 30 second walk worked well for me.

On the chart below, you can see the walk breaks,

View attachment 957706View attachment 957707

Nice! Congrats on a great run. Looks like you’ve got alot of data to go on, quickly looking I’d say you can get you POT easily. Quick math says you averaged 10:43/mile and using 3/:30 and an average walk of 19, your running pace would have been 10/mile. Just staying with that would get you a 2:20:30 HM. The fact that you had gas left after 1-running the challenge and 2-the temperature and dew point for the 10 miler says rested legs on a good day will get you a better time. If you’re finding that you like running longer stretches and can maintain pace just staying with 10/mile running and going to 3:30/:30 gets you a 2:11:58 HM, well under POT for Dopey. Or if you’ve got nothing to run before the deadline, double check that 1:45 limit because your 1:47:11 shows a HM equivalent of 2:22:50 and rD is looking for POT under 2:30. You may be able to use your SS time as it is.

I feel you on looking back wondering where you could save seconds, I do the same thing. I usually grab a gel now on the walk break before I need it, then hold it for the next 4 minutes so I have the full :30 next break to down it (I don’t like eating or drinking while running). The other thing I’ve found to save is really trying to notice the tangents. I managed to run SS in 10.02 miles, very happy with that.

I don’t think you have to worry about it though, you are there, just play around with some numbers, find some races, and have fun.

 

[rick1zoo2]

Nice! Congrats on a great run. Looks like you’ve got alot of data to go on, quickly looking I’d say you can get you POT easily. Quick math says you averaged 10:43/mile and using 3/:30 and an average walk of 19, your running pace would have been 10/mile. Just staying with that would get you a 2:20:30 HM. The fact that you had gas left after 1-running the challenge and 2-the temperature and dew point for the 10 miler says rested legs on a good day will get you a better time. If you’re finding that you like running longer stretches and can maintain pace just staying with 10/mile running and going to 3:30/:30 gets you a 2:11:58 HM, well under POT for Dopey. Or if you’ve got nothing to run before the deadline, double check that 1:45 limit because your 1:47:11 shows a HM equivalent of 2:22:50 and rD is looking for POT under 2:30. You may be able to use your SS time as it is.

I feel you on looking back wondering where you could save seconds, I do the same thing. I usually grab a gel now on the walk break before I need it, then hold it for the next 4 minutes so I have the full :30 next break to down it (I don’t like eating or drinking while running). The other thing I’ve found to save is really trying to notice the tangents. I managed to run SS in 10.02 miles, very happy with that.

I don’t think you have to worry about it though, you are there, just play around with some numbers, find some races, and have fun.

Wow, thanks! This gives me a lot to think about. We have a local half marathon next Saturday and currently working out what my targets could be. First one I have in mind is 2:20.