Rumor- New Second Island and 2 new Ships!

The cynical side of me does wonder if the DIS only posted that as a draw to their website, FB and Twitter accounts to get hits and comments. :worried:

I suppose that's possible, but I give them more credit than that. First, the DIS is pretty darn big and probably is not hurting for traffic where they have to resort to cheap tricks to boost clicks. Secondly, because it is so big, its reputation would suffer enormously if they started posting sensational but completely unsubstantiated rumors that do not even partially pan out. Finally, while I don't know any of these people personally, I get the impression that they are not like "that".

Again, I could be wrong on one or more of those counts, but I would like to think that I'm not.

Of course, that might be just what they want us to think.

Just to be clear, the "they" I was referring to was Disney, not the DIS.
 
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I suppose that's possible, but I give them more credit than that. First, the DIS is pretty darn big and probably is not hurting for traffic where they have to resort to cheap tricks to boost clicks. Secondly, because it is so big, its reputation would suffer enormously if they started posting sensational but completely unsubstantiated rumors that do not even partially pan out. Finally, while I don't know any of these people personally, I get the impression that they are not like "that".

Again, I could be wrong on one or more of those counts, but I would like to think that I'm not.

Just to be clear, the "they" I was referring to was Disney, not the DIS.

The "Rumor Alert" part does make me suspicious. No source was given.....

Not sure how you have managed to quote me, as saying what you said!
 
I'm not sure how I did that either. I am using iOS 9.0 beta on this iPad and it's acting super-wonky on this message board. Fixed.

I hear your skepticism, but don't rumors inherently come from unnamed sources? Though I'd love to see them quote sources in management going only by "Bob I." or "Tom S." :teeth:

Still, trying to think of other DIS "rumor alerts" in recent memory, and the ones that I can think of did, in fact, pan out. Maelstrom repurposed; Richard Petty closing; BOG breakfast; third Midway Mania track; American Idol closing. And now, Star Wars Land and Soarin' Over the Horizon, too.
 
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Very true. And perhaps we lend credence to the rumor because we so badly want it to happen.

But if DCL really is selling well, then the capital expenditure of new ships and an island to support those additional sailings isn't outside the realm of possibility.
 
I agree it is not.
They NEED new ships to compete in the market. There is only so much they can do to the magic ands wonder. @DISNEY FANTASY has already stated he was told the magic could take no more weight t be added.
Would D23 be the right place to announce more expenditure than already announced on this scale to investors or would it scare them off?
 
well that sucks. I dont understand why DCL doesnt want to build a bigger ship.....

Perhaps because they realize that there are some people who don't want to go on a behemoth of the seas, who actually want to feel like we're on a ship when we cruise...and they see that this is clearly a market they can capture as the other lines seem to be all about building it bigger and retiring their SHIPS in favor of floating islands.
 
Whilst i think you have understood my comment, i think you may have taken it too literally.
My point was could how much of a cruise ship could be 100% manufactured in the USA. At a reasonable cost.Obviously everything can be made in-house. but at what cost point? is it practical and economical? Probably not.
And as for easily, which shipyards do we currently have that have the facilities, infrastructure and workforce to build a dream sized ship for civilian use? Are there any non government or civilian ship yards that have that capability?
As to higher quality, well again, i'm sure Meyer Werft could produce a higher quality ship than the dream, but that costs more. It is a price point. i'm not sure what you mean by what amounts to slave like labor?
europe has labor laws too. i'm sure i'm misreading what you are saying?
i agree that project America was a debacle. There was no way they could produce that ship from what i've read. it was a disaster from start to finish. the lack of expertise and experience that they showed here but have in europe in spades only proves that? If the government were to back and subsidize a new cruise ship build, a proper size modern cruise ship, do you think it would come in on budget and on time? It is not like military vessels are launched without massive budget over-runs and delays.
The only legislation I can find regarding the British equivalent is the Navigation Acts which were abolished in 1849.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/024650d6-3f92-11e0-a1ba-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3ivNw0ekY
that and they are now required by european law to pay the minimum British wage to every employee on a ship sailing on a ship registered under their flag. Nothing about the ship being built in Britain though?
I get that as a past tanker mariner, you want to protect the rights of those workers and i agree with the principle of the Jones act, and it's relevance when it was passed. It is estimated that a US flagged vessel costs around 2.7 times the cost of a foreign flagged vessel.http://www.ogfj.com/articles/2012/10/jones-act.html
How does it apply or protect US workers in this day and age from a dcl cruise from for example out of PC, cruising to NY, then Boston, then Charleston and back? How does a cruise to no where harm our economy when there are no competitors offering that? Surely visiting only US ports, paying US port fees is better for us?
I've no doubt that US commercial yards are some of the finest in the world, with very skilled labor available for the industries and specific builds they work on, but unless they are competitive with the rest of the world, then they are only harming themselves by making them selves non runners in the market place, and the Jones act only adds another layer of a barrier to being competitive.Why can't the steel be sourced from overseas if it is cheaper, but cut, shaped and formed by US workers? If our steel is 50% more expensive than from another country, then buying abroad makes financial sense and we at least get to build cruise ships again? We cannot compete with building new engines that others have spent many years developing, so buy them and install them and maintain them, or do we design new ship engines from scratch and make them so over priced they are uncompetatove?
The fact we haven't been able to build and complete a cruise ship for over 50 years is a damning statement that whilst the Jones act had very good and true intentions when it was passed in 1920, it has to be updated to todays world IMO.


Ho Buddy,

We may disagree on some things here.

I didn't say it would be cheap as Europe, because the European countries heavily subsidize their yards, labor and banking. If they did the same in the US, the prices would be much the same as Germany, etc.

As to wherein the United state. Try Kvaerner in Phili, Newport news, Bath, Maine, New Orleans, San Diego, and others. All are private companies and build civilian ships in addition to military vessels, build for the US and foreign governments. Phili has a been building tankers the last few years. They would be a lot busier with civilian ships if the forgiven yards were not subsidizing their yards, labor, facilities and banking.

Then add the many smaller repair yards around the country.

Slave labor, I was referring to China. My error there I should have been more clear.

Canada and England have the similar laws, and I know other countries do as well.

I pointed out he reasons why we need the Jones act. (thought I agree I have no idea why the restriction on the cruise to no where) If we don't have a merchant marine in a national emergency or war, we need the ships,. Without them we are severely handicapped.

You point on the cost of steel total is not correct. Right now US steel and foreign steel are in a very competitive price war.....US mills complete quite well, except for China, India, and south Korea where the labor is almost slave labor and their government subsidize the industries. Again, let US mills compete on a even playing field and the world market will be quite different. Right now the European, Chinese and other markets are slowing down and these countries are dumping their coils material on the US market. Sure they can be cheaper when their government are competing unfairly.

Engines, machinery?....what makes you think we don't build engines?.....Just because a company may have a foreign name does not always mean they are not designed and built in the US.Try Siemans, they have one particularly large plant in Norther or SOUTH Carolina where they build a lot of heavy machernery and much of it is shipped to


The cruise industry is really a very small part of the Maritime industry. I am really talking about the entire Maritime industry.

AKK
 
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I agree it is not.
They NEED new ships to compete in the market. There is only so much they can do to the magic ands wonder. @DISNEY FANTASY has already stated he was told the magic could take no more weight t be added.
Would D23 be the right place to announce more expenditure than already announced on this scale to investors or would it scare them off?

My initial thought is that these expenditures are coming from a position of strength and when the company is flush with cash. They probably want to reclaim what ground was lost to Harry Potter and rejuvenate HS as a full-day park.

Re: DCL - as you said, they need more ships. Not necessarily bigger ships, but definitely more to compete with RCCL in the "family" space. I wonder if it's a case of spending $2B now vs. having to spend $5B for the same gains a few years down the line.

Perhaps because they realize that there are some people who don't want to go on a behemoth of the seas, who actually want to feel like we're on a ship when we cruise...and they see that this is clearly a market they can capture as the other lines seem to be all about building it bigger and retiring their SHIPS in favor of floating islands.

Agreed. I find those ships unappealing; they look like someone dropped an Embassy Suites on top of a shipping barge. And honestly, I don't really go on a cruise ship looking to zip-line, indoor sky-dive or walk in a well-landscaped park. I have plenty of places to do that within 25 miles or less of my house.
 
Agreed. I find those ships unappealing; they look like someone dropped an Embassy Suites on top of a shipping barge. And honestly, I don't really go on a cruise ship looking to zip-line, indoor sky-dive or walk in a well-landscaped park. I have plenty of places to do that within 25 miles or less of my house.

Bingo! I always laugh when people are all "But it's got Central Park!" Um, no. I have Central Park about a 30 minute subway ride away. The REAL one.

Someone else made a good point about size shutting some of those ships out of certain markets. I know when I was considering a couple of cruises for next summer, many people encouraged me to take the one that docks overnight in Venice (it's on RCCL, but on Brilliance which is one of their smaller ships that still looks and feels like a ship - I did book it, and am excited about it) because between their port restrictions and the ever increasing size of ships, sailing into Venice may not be possible in the future. Just one example of a ship's ability to visit a port being limited by its size. If Disney sticks to ships between the Classics and Dream Class, they'll have more access to ports that some lines will soon be sizing themselves out of.
 
:offtopic:

Frankly, if we don't support US jobs, it will not matter where or how many cruise ships are built, because there will not be anyone in the US able to afford to go on any cruise.

Ok....subject closed for me.


AKK
 
:offtopic:

Frankly, if we don't support US jobs, it will not matter where or how many cruise ships are built, because there will not be anyone in the US able to afford to go on any cruise.

Ok....subject closed for me.


AKK

I'm all for supporting jobs for our workers. for the skills and and abilities and in markets we CAN compete at on a toe to toe level.
but to be realistic, Disney cruise lines would not exist if it were not for foreign registry and flagging, foreign ownership in the uk, foreign ship builders, foreign crew and this discussion of future ships would not be happening because this part of the dis board would not exist.
dcl would be an un economical dream and even if started would probably be in the same trash can as project America ended up.
 
Agreed. I find those ships unappealing; they look like someone dropped an Embassy Suites on top of a shipping barge. And honestly, I don't really go on a cruise ship looking to zip-line, indoor sky-dive or walk in a well-landscaped park. I have plenty of places to do that within 25 miles or less of my house.
I also find them visually unappealing. Once you get over the sheer size of these vessels I agree that they are just overwhelming.

However, the typical cruiser doesn't pick one of these vessels based on visual appeal. The items you mentioned, and a lot more all go into the overall cruise experience. Some love all that stuff and there's obviously a market for it.
 
Its Sunday morning (about 5:30 on the west coast), the last day of D23 and we are still waiting for an official announcement concerning DCL. Hoping something comes along.

BTW, somewhere up-thread a poster was wondering if the DIS folks made up this rumor in order to promote the site. Not going to happen. The DIS folks are merely repeating what they have heard. The do have sources behind the scenes and its possible that they have learned this information themselves by networking. Or they are just passing along trade floor rumors.
 
Yet I can see a market for those obscenely large ships. Cruising seems very appealing for multi generational groups. My parents are reaching an age where they don't want to have to pack and unpack every night but still want to see new places. While Disney was incredibly entertaining for DD3, I can see her wanting more by the time she's 12+. While DH and I don't need zip lines and all that, she might find that those options really make a difference in her level of fun. :confused3 I'm glad I've got severe years of Disney Magic ahead of me though. I intend to capitalize on her enjoyment of childhood. :thumbsup2
 
As I stated at the start of this thread, the 'second island' isn't going to happen, firstly it said second Caribbean island which is incorrect as the first castaway as in the Bahamas, Next, any place ships could call at, has been identified and taken, and if there was a place to buy, then you will be in competition with other cruise lines with serious money and clout and new lines like Virgin coming.

The second new two ships has been going the rounds for 12 months now, its not a new rumor, many state they saw the plans and can even give the detail of them, such as mid sized. When asked priorities were WDW MK,Fantasyland, AK, we have new Star Wars and Toy Story areas coming so the ships have been side stepped. But with a five year wait and other lines bringing in new ships it would be foolish not to commit at this point.
 
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Next, any place ships could call at, has been identified and taken, and if there was a place to buy, then you will be in competition with other cruise liens with serious money and clout and new lines like Virgin coming.
I've followed your posts on the DIS for quite a while and normally agree with you. However I'm going in the other direction on this one.

With all the islands in the "Caribbean" (debate about the Bahama's geographical categorization aside) I would think that there are many islands that could be purchased. Disney has "serious money and clout" as well as the other cruise lines, existing and new.
 
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I've followed your posts on the DIS for quite a while and normally agree with you. However I'm going in the other direction on this one.

With all the islands in the "Caribbean" (debate about the Bahama's geographical categorization aside) I would think that there are many islands that could be purchased. Disney has "serious money and clout" as well as the other cruise lines, existing and new.

Yes Disney has clout I agree but also has budgets and a lot of projects announced taking cash, priority (1) New ships, another island imho is not a priority, DCL is expanding and cant use Caribbean islands for cruises to Alaska, Hawaii, Europe, etc. Non cruise fare income on selling shore trips brings in a lot of cash ie Alaska and Europe, an island sucks money bar the small activities and cabanas.

I personally think there is confusion of this rumor and its a new Caribbean port of call.

DF and OKWL, both your points of view have merit!

As its Sunday morning we should know later today.

AKK

Agreed.

As long as its not the reported turning the Magic and Wonder into floating hotels that was mentioned on cruise critic two years ago!
 
I've been following along, and I can't help but wonder if two rumours didn't get mixed? Maybe there will be 2 new ships, and the second part of the rumour was referencing the new land (meaning star wars land?)..
 

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