Rules on renting points

[rugman1969]

What is DVC's rules about renting points to others? Do they have a problem with this, or is it ok?

 

[jnsolomon]

I believe they do not have a problem with it as long as it is not for commercial purposes. I do think that they require you to use some kind of rental contract between you and the renter.

 

[DebbieB]

I believe they do not have a problem with it as long as it is not for commercial purposes. I do think that they require you to use some kind of rental contract between you and the renter.

DVC does not require a contract. It's a private deal between the member and the renter. DVC does not get involved if there are any problems between the member and renter. If the renter does damages to the room, the member is responsible.

DVC has defined "commercial renting" as more than 20 reservations for other parties in a year.

 

[RobDoc]

DVC does not require a contract. It's a private deal between the member and the renter. DVC does not get involved if there are any problems between the member and renter. If the renter does damages to the room, the member is responsible.

DVC has defined "commercial renting" as more than 20 reservations for other parties in a year.

DVC DOES require a rental contract and describes it in our POS. In the absence of a contract there are specific items in the POS that are assumed with any rental - so a contract is included with every reservation whether the member wants to pass along that responsibility to the renter or not. I'd certainly suggest a contract that requires a renter to abide by all provisions already agreed to by the member they are renting from - including an agreement to indemnify the member from damages and charges accrued during the stay. If you choose not to insist on a contract, that's OK with me but I do hope there are no issues that as a result of the lack of a contract.

 

[rugman1969]

DVC DOES require a rental contract and describes it in our POS. In the absence of a contract there are specific items in the POS that are assumed with any rental - so a contract is included with every reservation whether the member wants to pass along that responsibility to the renter or not. I'd certainly suggest a contract that requires a renter to abide by all provisions already agreed to by the member they are renting from - including an agreement to indemnify the member from damages and charges accrued during the stay. If you choose not to insist on a contract, that's OK with me but I do hope there are no issues that as a result of the lack of a contract.

Thanks for the answer, and I would definitely have a contract between me and the buyer, but if Disney were to ask if I was selling the points, would saying yes be ok, or would they frown on that or have a problem?

 

[wilma-bride]

Thanks for the answer, and I would definitely have a contract between me and the buyer, but if Disney were to ask if I was selling the points, would saying yes be ok, or would they frown on that or have a problem?

I can't see why they would ask, to be perfectly honest. As far as I'm aware, the only time DIsney has a problem with money changing hands for points is when it's a transfer of points (other than commercial renting as mentioned above). I could be wrong though

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks for the answer, and I would definitely have a contract between me and the buyer, but if Disney were to ask if I was selling the points, would saying yes be ok, or would they frown on that or have a problem?

Renting reservations (which is what you are really doing, NOT selling points) is specifically permitted by the POS as long as it does not rise to the "commercial use" prohibition. As previously stated, DVC has defined commercial use as 20 or more rentals per year.

However...it is obvious that DVC does not like us renting, regardless of what the POS says, because we are in competition with CRO. It's equally obvious that their displeasure has been communicated to the MS staff, because occasionally an MS CM will tell an owner "renting is illegal" or similar nonsense.

Personally, I think the best thing to tell MS regarding a rental is nothing. If they ask if a transaction is a rental, I'd be tempted to tell them it's none of their business, but in the real world I'd probably just tell them the guest is a friend/relative, etc.

 

[DebbieB]

DVC DOES require a rental contract and describes it in our POS. In the absence of a contract there are specific items in the POS that are assumed with any rental - so a contract is included with every reservation whether the member wants to pass along that responsibility to the renter or not. I'd certainly suggest a contract that requires a renter to abide by all provisions already agreed to by the member they are renting from - including an agreement to indemnify the member from damages and charges accrued during the stay. If you choose not to insist on a contract, that's OK with me but I do hope there are no issues that as a result of the lack of a contract.

Thanks for the correction, I didn't know that. I have never rented.

 

[RobDoc]

Thanks for the answer, and I would definitely have a contract between me and the buyer, but if Disney were to ask if I was selling the points, would saying yes be ok, or would they frown on that or have a problem?

Technically, members are supposed to identify rental reservations for MS. MS is supposed to make note of that as renters are not supposed to receive any member benefits. This is noted in the POS.

In reality, as Jim suggested, some MS reps have been a little testy with members who are following the POS and letting MS know about a rental. In addition, we have NEVER had a report here about a renter being treated any differently than any other DVC guest even when the member DID identify the reservation as a rental. No one has ever reported that their room ID did not have the "DVC Member" notation.

As a result, since MS has not been upholding their end regarding noting rentals in the system, I would also tend to fail to mention that to MS and avoid the potential for confrontation - although, if I ever rented, I suspect I would tell them and then ask for a supervisor if the rep suggested there was anything wrong with renting. I would also be prepared with a quote from the POS expressly allowing rental (but that's just me ).

 

[NewDCLGuy]

As previously stated, DVC has defined commercial use as 20 or more rentals per year.

Not quite. Disney has never defined commercial renting. It's a they'll-know-it-when-they-see-it kind of thing. They have given "20+ rents per year" as an example of the kind of thing that might lead them to conclude someone is renting commercially. But that doesn't mean they can't find somebody with 10 rental a year to be a commercial renter. And somebody with a good reason could rent more than 20 times and not be declared a commercial renter.

 

[JimMIA]

Not quite. Disney has never defined commercial renting. It's a they'll-know-it-when-they-see-it kind of thing. They have given "20+ rents per year" as an example of the kind of thing that might lead them to conclude someone is renting commercially. But that doesn't mean they can't find somebody with 10 rental a year to be a commercial renter. And somebody with a good reason could rent more than 20 times and not be declared a commercial renter.

I agree with you, but a year or so ago the DVC lawyers sent a bunch of letters out to many owners who had rented 20 or more times per year, so they have "defined" it in that sense. The letter was just a warning as I understand it, and I don't know of any action being taken against owners.

[ETA: I believe they also modified the POS or DVC rules, and that 20-or-more wording is actually now used in DVC documentation. I think DVC Mike posted the quotations a year or so ago.]

My personal definition of "commercial use" would be an owner who rents out all of their points, year after year.

There are owners who own tens of thousands of points in multiple accounts and obviously are not living full time in a DVC resort. Those are the folks I think DVC should really worry about -- not someone who rents 100 excess points a year or all of their points every 3rd or 4th year because they're vacationing elsewhere.

 

[oldkey1]

......we remember when we bought in 1992 that renting reservations was OK, but a "renter" is supposed to get hotel privileges as if they transacted with CRO whereas a "guest" would receive full member privileges. We have rented reservations many dozens of times and our "guest" always had Member on their key card with all privileges. Never had a single problem.

As I only rent to friends and neighbors, I have not used a contract.

 

[Deb & Bill]

......we remember when we bought in 1992 that renting reservations was OK, but a "renter" is supposed to get hotel privileges as if they transacted with CRO whereas a "guest" would receive full member privileges. We have rented reservations many dozens of times and our "guest" always had Member on their key card with all privileges. Never had a single problem.

As I only rent to friends and neighbors, I have not used a contract.

Not quite. The guest (who pays no compensation to the member for the reservation) may be entitled to some of the member perks. A renter who pays the member for the use of the reservation is not entitled to any member perks.

 

[JimMIA]

......we remember when we bought in 1992 that renting reservations was OK, but a "renter" is supposed to get hotel privileges as if they transacted with CRO whereas a "guest" would receive full member privileges. We have rented reservations many dozens of times and our "guest" always had Member on their key card with all privileges. Never had a single problem.

As I only rent to friends and neighbors, I have not used a contract.

I think that might have been true at one time, but for the last several years whenever we have taken advantage of any DVC member perk, we've been asked for our blue Member card.

Renters should count on getting all of the benefits of staying onsite, but the only DVC benefit I know they will get is the ability to get DDP without purchasing park tickets.

 

[mikron]

DVC does not require a contract. It's a private deal between the member and the renter. DVC does not get involved if there are any problems between the member and renter. If the renter does damages to the room, the member is responsible.

DVC has defined "commercial renting" as more than 20 reservations for other parties in a year.

12 or more and you will get a letter if they are in a calendar year.

 

[Dean]

Not quite. Disney has never defined commercial renting. It's a they'll-know-it-when-they-see-it kind of thing. They have given "20+ rents per year" as an example of the kind of thing that might lead them to conclude someone is renting commercially. But that doesn't mean they can't find somebody with 10 rental a year to be a commercial renter. And somebody with a good reason could rent more than 20 times and not be declared a commercial renter.

I doubt we'll ever see a formal definition so this is about as close as we have. I'm sure DVD doesn't want a formal definition as it would box them in.

Not quite. The guest (who pays no compensation to the member for the reservation) may be entitled to some of the member perks. A renter who pays the member for the use of the reservation is not entitled to any member perks.

As I read the POS my take is that it says not to expect the perks. Ultimately it's up to DVC and Disney to decide if/what perks a given renter OR guest might be allowed to use.