Rude (?) behavior during the flag ceremony

[pittypat]

When we were at DL last week, we happened by the flag retreat ceremony. When the flag was lowered, the band played the Star Spangled Banner. Everyone stood and either sang or were quietly respectful. Except for two young men (upper 20's?) who remained seated, with their hats on, looking totally bored. I was raised to believe that you always stand for the National Anthem (unless you physically can't) and behave appropriately. Has this gone "out of fashion" or something, or was this just total rudeness?

 

[SCOTTOHIOCPA]

I agree, you should always stand.

Unfortunately, you can always find a few people at any sporting event that need to drink their beer more that respect those who fought for them to be able to drink it.

Just my opinion.

 

[deletedpenguin]

There's always those select few that don't believe rules/politeness apply to them.

Unfortunate, but true.

 

[Leggyb]

Having been to a lot of sporting events, I know that every once in a while during the National Anthem I will forget to take my hat off. I'll stand up, put my hand over my heart and then once it's over I'll remember. It makes me mad at myself that I can forget something like that but sometimes that's all it is... people forget- it's not out of disrespect.

Also, being a cheerleader we once had a Veteran come up to us after a game and asked us why we were "at ease" during the Anthem. We were just always taught to stand with our legs shoulder width apart, left arm behind back with our right hand over our heart. We later learned that it is disrespectful to be "at ease" so now we always stand with our feet together during the National Anthem.

Sometimes people just don't know. However, I highly doubt this was the case for those boys...

 

[Albort]

BUT, Disneyland IS a tourist attraction. They can be from another country and NOT understand exactly what is going on.

You cant really blame them for it.

 

[VegasMike21]

I never seen anyone sitting unless they were physically unable to stand up. And as far as hats go I always seem to find one man that leaves it on but probably because they forgot to take it off.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Albort, I have to disagree. I mean I see what you are saying but think about it. If you were in a foreign country and saw everyone around you paying tribute to their flag, would you not stand up at least? In most countries around the world, the flag is a sacred thing. To pay respect to a flag, any flag, is sort of a universal courtesy, like holding open a door and covering your mouth when you sneeze. I think even a tourist from the far reaches of the galaxy could have figured this one out.

 

[kiwitravel]

Different countries place differing priorities on anthems, It is a western thing but even then different western countries place differing priority on it. For example in my country yes we will stand and sing the anthem at sports events but is not a big pride thing, for us the "haka" is the thing that fills us with pride and sends the goose bumps up the spine.

 

[JenDisneylandlver]

I would always stand up. But I guess that's why we have that freedom, even if it's to do something like be rude!

 

[ariel53098]

Being a military spouse, it's second nature for me to stand and possibly sing. However, I will agree that it is possible they just weren't thinking. I've lived in other countries and have shown respect for their national anthem and have seen them show respect for ours at bilateral events. I've had some Jehovah's Witness students that do not say the pledge or put their hand over their heart for religious reasons. However, their parents taught them to stand with respect for others.
Rachel

 

[VegasMike21]

Albort, I have to disagree. I mean I see what you are saying but think about it. If you were in a foreign country and saw everyone around you paying tribute to their flag, would you not stand up at least? In most countries around the world, the flag is a sacred thing. To pay respect to a flag, any flag, is sort of a universal courtesy, like holding open a door and covering your mouth when you sneeze. I think even a tourist from the far reaches of the galaxy could have figured this one out.

If I were in a foreign country I would respect their flag afterall I am in their country at that point and would be the proper thing to do.

 

[XTinabell]

BUT, Disneyland IS a tourist attraction. They can be from another country and NOT understand exactly what is going on.

You cant really blame them for it.

I agree Albort, it IS a tourist place, not everyone is from the US and other people have different cultures and therefore you can't blame people who do not stand for the national anthem that isn't even their national anthem.

Albort, I have to disagree. I mean I see what you are saying but think about it. If you were in a foreign country and saw everyone around you paying tribute to their flag, would you not stand up at least? In most countries around the world, the flag is a sacred thing. To pay respect to a flag, any flag, is sort of a universal courtesy, like holding open a door and covering your mouth when you sneeze. I think even a tourist from the far reaches of the galaxy could have figured this one out.

I wonder if you were in a foreign country and their anthem played would you stand, sing along with your hand over your heart? I can't answer for you but I would be neither surprised nor offended if you didn't. When dh and I were at disneyland in November we left the flag ceremony because we felt out of place, everyone was singing the american national anthem (being canadian we didn't know all the words) and were getting dirty looks from people for not singing along so we left. And if you will remember during hockey a few years ago American's actually boo'd during the Canadian national anthem, so unfortunately not everyone is courteous. Also, perhaps their feet just hurt.

 

[disneegrl4eva]

I agree Albort, it IS a tourist place, not everyone is from the US and other people have different cultures and therefore you can't blame people who do not stand for the national anthem that isn't even their national anthem.


I wonder if you were in a foreign country and their anthem played would you stand, sing along with your hand over your heart? I can't answer for you but I would be neither surprised nor offended if you didn't. When dh and I were at disneyland in November we left the flag ceremony because we felt out of place, everyone was singing the american national anthem (being canadian we didn't know all the words) and were getting dirty looks from people for not singing along so we left. And if you will remember during hockey a few years ago American's actually boo'd during the Canadian national anthem, so unfortunately not everyone is courteous. Also, perhaps their feet just hurt.

I totally agree with you gf....and albort you are totally right...and unfortunate as it is, people are just not as patriotic as they used to be...the younger crowd, imo arent taught the respect as they once were taught and you see that all around now...from the way you watch some of these little kids act towards their parents and others to the way you see teens yelling at their parents like they were the parents...I personally have raised my daughter to at least be respectful but that doesnt mean other parents do the same...

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

When dh and I were at disneyland in November we left the flag ceremony because we felt out of place, everyone was singing the american national anthem (being canadian we didn't know all the words) and were getting dirty looks from people for not singing along so we left.

Sorry you were treated badly. It is not bad manners not to sing along. Yet you were treated like it was.

 

[Judy from Boise]

I'm very patriotic.....but the men you are describing were not being actively, disrespectful...they were just not participating. This could be for many cultural or religious reasons. I would let it roll off of my back and not start to generalise to entire groups.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I wonder if you were in a foreign country and their anthem played would you stand, sing along with your hand over your heart? I can't answer for you but I would be neither surprised nor offended if you didn't. When dh and I were at disneyland in November we left the flag ceremony because we felt out of place, everyone was singing the american national anthem (being canadian we didn't know all the words) and were getting dirty looks from people for not singing along so we left. And if you will remember during hockey a few years ago American's actually boo'd during the Canadian national anthem, so unfortunately not everyone is courteous. Also, perhaps their feet just hurt.

I would stand, obviously I would not sing since its doubtful I would know their anthem. If others had thier hands over their hearts, I would do the same. If I cared enough about that country to visit, I would care enough to show it some respect. Or I would do what you did, in fact would probably do what you did, and just make a graceful exit, absolutely nothing wrong with that. I realize not all Americans are courteous neither is "all" of any other nationality or culture. If I don't like a country, I don't visit it. If these two young men were Americans, they were being thoughtless but then again you learn by example and maybe nobody ever taught them how to show respect. Or maybe as you say, they had sore feet. A day at Disneyland can make anybody tired enough to just let pomp and circumstance go out the door. If they were from another country (and either way we are assuming) then they were just not in the know I guess.

I think issues like this will get some people's dander up more than others. My father died for this country so I have strong feelings about this so of course my thoughts will be slanted a bit! In the end we all do what we think is right and hope for the best I guess!

Edited to add to XTinabell: I am sorry you were treated badly by Americans when you didn't sing the anthem. Its a shame when people are at the Happiest Place on Earth and have to be nasty! And I will also say that booing the Canadian Anthem was one of those "ashamed to be an American" type moments! People never cease to amaze me with their stangeness!

 

[TheZue]

Even if they were from another country, why were they there looking bored? They should have at least stood up. I'm from Canada and I think our national pride is often shown by pretending we have none...but I certainly wouldn't put myself in a situation where I was disrespecting another country's anthem; probably why I've never gone to the flag retreat ceremony. I certainly wouldn't know the words and I really don't think I've ever thought about putting my hand on my chest or not haha...I don't even know OUR anthem cause they keep changing the words. So basically if you aren't into anthems or flags, you probably shouldn't be at the flag retreat ceremony even if you are foreign.

 

[kiwitravel]

To be honest it is a little hard for some us foreigners to comprehend, that so much importance can be placed on a piece of fabric. In my country we are actually looking at changing our flag because it is very similar to the Australian one and also no longer holds a lot of relevance to current New Zealand. There was some protest but most NZers were in favour, however most also believe that it could wait out of respect for those that did fight under and for that flag in WW1 and WW2. In NZ we seem to feel it is not a flag that determines a country, it is the people, its customs and the history, we place more emphasis on other symbols of our country, the kiwi (our national bird), the silver fern (which all NZ athletes wear) and the haka (performed at most international sports events). I am sure there are some American tourists in our country that would scratch their heads and wonder what the hell these crazy kiwis are upto when they see one. Would I have stood for the American Anthem? absolutely yes, would I sing? I don't know the words, would I take off my hat? probably not as I didn't realise it was important (I do now), would I put my hand on my heart? No that belongs to another country.......

 

[queenarmadillo]

In Britain, the playing of the national anthem before most non-major events etc. has been abandoned, and I suspect the fact that a big factor behind that is that there are a growing number of people who don't stand up. Most schools etc. dont teach the anthem like they do in America (the number of Brits who don't even know the first verse of our anthem is amazing even to me). Standing for the anthem has become an issue of respect, rather than propriety. People will stand at international sporting events, where we are proud of our britishness, or at rememberance occasions in respect of those who fought for our country. An increasing number of people do not stand at, for example, lower league ice hockey matches, because you stand if you are proud of your anthem or the country, and in those day-to-day situations when people are thinking more about the failure of our health service to provide care when we need it, or our entry into a war the majority of the country was opposed to, than the past glories of the country, we are not proud.

Essentially my point is that, whilst I stand for my own anthem because I know how appaled my elderly relatives who fought for the country would be if I did not, and I will stand for your anthem because to refuse to do so would be offensive (and often because the enthusisam of those around me is contagious, which is something I really like about america) standing is no longer a part of our culture in this country. If the boys you encountered were Brits, with little exposure to america, they were probably suprised at how many people were stood up.