Rolling Hills vs. Flat and Fast

[Optimator]

Hilly or flat is such a subjective thing.

I am curious what everyone else's "typical" training conditions are.

As an example, today I ran what I would consider a rolling 7.25 miles. According to the Garmin, the elevation change up was 1089 feet and down was 1125 feet. That averages about 150 feet up per mile and 155 feet down per mile.

So here is where you all come in. Pick a routine training route and post the miles and elevation changes. I'm interested to see what's usual.

Oh, and I won't even try to figure out how I can start and stop at the exact same spot in my driveway and go down 36 more feet than I go up. Earth wobble, I guess.

 

[SAHDad]

Unfortunately, the majority of my training runs during the winter months have an elevation change of 0, because I am confined to the dreadmill*. Looking back a couple of months, a lot of my runs are on what I would consider "flat" - no more than a net change of about 50 feet per mile, and any changes are pretty gradual. I do try to get out on some local mountain biking trails during the summer - they have no greater net change than the "flat" courses, but they have abrupt elevation changes, and inclines of up to 30 degrees.


* My home dreadmill is currently stuck on a 2% incline, more or less. The ones at the Y are actually level, so I do most of my running there. 4 or 5 miles of continuous climb really starts to bug my knees.

 

[ironz]

Optimator...that sounds like "gently rolling" to me.

SAHDad...just a hint....since the treadmill actually does a little of the work for you (i.e., the belt moves under you, while a road or trail is a fixed surface), it is often recommended to set your treadmill incline at 1.0 (I sometimes slack and do 0.5 ) to more closely match real world conditions.

I just did 45 min on the dreadmill. ugh. I am ready for nicer weather to run outside!

 

[gatorphipps]

Good question....
I train in Charlotte where the hills are a little more than rolling.

Ran the Charlotte Marathon with over 1000 ft of climbing in Dec.
Now in Feb, I am going to run Myrtle Beach Marathon and it is FLAT!

Hoping to do faster in Myrtle Beach...but my running friends say that using the same muscles on the flat courses gets old quick....so I will answer this question on 2/14/09 after the marathon.....

 

[JimB.]

I live in Florida on the coast.

What's a hill???

My resistance training is headwinds.

 

[SAHDad]

Optimator...that sounds like "gently rolling" to me.

SAHDad...just a hint....since the treadmill actually does a little of the work for you (i.e., the belt moves under you, while a road or trail is a fixed surface), it is often recommended to set your treadmill incline at 1.0 (I sometimes slack and do 0.5 ) to more closely match real world conditions.

I just did 45 min on the dreadmill. ugh. I am ready for nicer weather to run outside!

Yeah, I know that some say that. Noakes (who has written "The Lore of Running" - one of the more definitive works on the subject), while he does not address treadmills specifically, does note that, unless you are running faster than a 2:21 marathon (or equivalent pace), wind resistance is not a big factor, though that's one of the reasons most people cite for having an incline on the ole hamster pad.

All I know is that (on any mill), a 7:30 pace is a quick cruise, whereas outside, with hills and wind, it's a much more relaxed pace. I generally run by perceived effort, rather than heart rate or speed, since it is something which I can adjust for terrain, weather, mood, and so forth.

 

[Kira G.]

Hilly or flat is such a subjective thing.

I am curious what everyone else's "typical" training conditions are.

As an example, today I ran what I would consider a rolling 7.25 miles. According to the Garmin, the elevation change up was 1089 feet and down was 1125 feet. That averages about 150 feet up per mile and 155 feet down per mile.

So here is where you all come in. Pick a routine training route and post the miles and elevation changes. I'm interested to see what's usual.

Oh, and I won't even try to figure out how I can start and stop at the exact same spot in my driveway and go down 36 more feet than I go up. Earth wobble, I guess.

Can you tell me how I could find elevation change information on my Garmin? I have a 205. (of course I could just try to look it up in my manual, but I'd rather ask you guys!)

 

[ironz]

Yeah, I know that some say that. Noakes (who has written "The Lore of Running" - one of the more definitive works on the subject), while he does not address treadmills specifically, does note that, unless you are running faster than a 2:21 marathon (or equivalent pace), wind resistance is not a big factor, though that's one of the reasons most people cite for having an incline on the ole hamster pad.

All I know is that (on any mill), a 7:30 pace is a quick cruise, whereas outside, with hills and wind, it's a much more relaxed pace. I generally run by perceived effort, rather than heart rate or speed, since it is something which I can adjust for terrain, weather, mood, and so forth.

haha!! for me, a 7:30 pace is FLYING, not a quick cruise!

and I don't think it is necessarily wind resistance, but rather resistance against the road, or other running surface, as it is stationary and the treadmill belt moves backwards behind your strides. At least as I understand it.

 

[Optimator]

Can you tell me how I could find elevation change information on my Garmin? I have a 205. (of course I could just try to look it up in my manual, but I'd rather ask you guys!)

Kira - You can find it easily if download your Garmin info onto the Training Center program.

It's on the screen that shows the details for each run such as distance, split times, etc. You have to scroll way over to the right to find the elevation columns (at least on mine).

I'm sure you can find it flipping through screens on the watch itself but I haven't tried that trick.

 

[rKyDeX]

Mike

I looked up last Saturday's 6 mile run - ascent = 493/ 82 per mile, descent = 448/ 75 per mile. That's on ground that is flat for all intents and purposes. I never would have guessed that I changed elevation that much. I wonder how accurate the elevation reckoning is.

Chester

 

[aldisneygrl]

Kira -You can find it easily if download your Garmin info onto the Training Center program.

It's on the screen that shows the details for each run such as distance, split times, etc. You have to scroll way over to the right to find the elevation columns (at least on mine).

I'm sure you can find it flipping through screens on the watch itself but I haven't tried that trick.

That is cool to know. Never knew that was over there. Glad to learn something new every day. now I need to go back and look at my elevations.

 

[Cindylou]

Mike:

Where I run at home there are occasional rolling hills.

Training run #1

Ascent 1630 ft over 10.73 miles = 151.9 ft/mi
Descent 1696 ft = 158 ft/mi

Training run #2

Up 5478 ft over 19.14 mi = 286 ft/mi
Down 5545 ft = 289 ft/mi

In contrast when I run at work I run along the Charles River in Cambridge and Boston which I think of as extremely flat. When I check the Garmin data it shows:

Ascent 1065 ft over 5 miles = 213 ft/mi
Descent 946 ft = 189 ft/mi (I do start and stop at different points since I have a hard time getting a satellite signal to start near my building)

I'm very surprised by this data. Now I'm going to have to come up with a different theory as to why my pace is so much slower when I run at home. Hmmm.

Cindy

 

[Optimator]

Pretty interesting to see the numbers.

Cindy - Does training run #2 seem a lot hillier to you? Then again, I guess anything towards the end of a 19.2 mile run would feel significant.

Two things to consider: First, I'm not real confident in the numbers that the Garmin spits out for elevation. Second, one or two hills in an otherwise pancake flat run would make an average number not truly representative of the run.

Maybe all this number comparison could be a mute point. And maybe that's why it's tricky to really say what's hilly and what's not.

 

[Tiger Lily 03]

I live in Florida on the coast.

What's a hill???

My resistance training is headwinds.

Jim, Umm, hills = overpasses over there--you know those are mountains about miles 21 on up at WDW I'm tellin' ya.

I guess I'm going to have to look at the other computer where Garmin gets downloaded. I consider almost all my training mostly level. I do fit in hill work--we do have some around to work on, but I don't do that every training week since my old knees are always letting me know they hate it when I do that!

 

[Cindylou]

Mike, My training run #2 definitely seemed hillier. Luckily most of them were early on in the run.

As far as the runs along the river, I've been thinking about it and there are several foot bridges I go over. I guess if you string enough of them together that could account for a lot of the ascent/descent.

Cindy

 

[scoolover]

I can't figure out the Garmin so I have no clue what the real elevations are. Most of my runs are fairly flat and I would be shocked if there were a 50 foot difference from the high point to the low point for most of my routes. I am a hill pansy anyway. I walk a lot of them.

Here is the irony. I am putting my name in the lottery for the Mt. Washington Road Race. I believe that the climb is about 4700 feet over 7.6 miles and the finish line is over 7000 feet. They give 3.5 hours to complete it. I pray that I don't get in again!!!

For anyone interested, the lottery is from Mar 1 to Mar 15.

 

[Cindylou]

Hey Scott,

It's just one hill.

My sister has done that race several times. I've only cheered for her. It just doesn't appeal to me.

Good luck to you - not sure if I should say hope you get in, or hope you don't.

Cindy

 

[scoolover]

Hey Scott,

It's just one hill.

My sister has done that race several times. I've only cheered for her. It just doesn't appeal to me.

Good luck to you - not sure if I should say hope you get in, or hope you don't.

Cindy

Well I hope I don't so lets keep our fingers crossed. The wierd thing is that getting in or not really changes my entire summer with regards to training and what races I will enter. It might end up being a real sucky summer!

I will keep you posted when the lottery results come out. A buddy who was on my college track team has won it the last two years! It doesn't help me out though.

 

[SAHDad]

Just as an update - got in my long run along one of my normal routes today - +1266/-1289 total elevation changes over 14.09 miles, which is only about 90 feet/mile. There are hills, but I'd still call it a pretty flat course.

 

[lourodrigis]

Mike - My typical runs are in South Jersey, which is flat as a board. I usually run along a bike path that is near my house. On Saturday I ran 7 miles along the path and the elevation change from point to point was +20 feet. The Garmin shows that I rarely go up or down more than 20 feet from my starting elevation.

In order to find hills I usually head into Philly and run along a trail called Forbidden Drive. There is one hill that rises and falls about 250 feet in a 1/2 mile. The majority of the course is hilly but nothing as bad as the first big hill.

Lou