ROFR Discussion Thread

[Girlstar30]

You wonder how many people pay for things that they weren’t aware of. Like I’m still wondering if I screwed up somewhere lol.

Maybe I shouldnt look because im going to be maddd

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

It's still weird to me that a buyer of a December UY contract with no points available until December of 2026 would generally be expected to reimburse the seller for the dues that were billed for those points almost a year earlier. Gets less and les weird the earlier in the calendar year the UY is, but it is still not very intuitive when you're just getting into this.

What makes it weird?

 

[DVC Gma]

You wonder how many people pay for things that they weren’t aware of. Like I’m still wondering if I screwed up somewhere lol.

Me too! But to be honest I have no idea where those original contract stuff is.

 

[airjay75]

What makes it weird?

Dues are billed by the calendar year. They aren't really linked to a particular UY. They're just linked to a contract and who owns that contract when the dues are billed.

So, IMO, if the seller used all of the points on a December UY contract that were available through November 2026, it makes more intuitive sense to me that they would be responsible for 11/12ths of the 2026 year calendar dues.

 

[Sandisw]

When you're first getting into the resale game, it can really be hard to get your head around the dues, who is typically responsible, and even more so with some of the UYs. It's still weird to me that a buyer of a December UY contract with no points available until December of 2026 would generally be expected to reimburse the seller for the dues that were billed for those points almost a year earlier. Gets less and less weird the earlier in the calendar year the UY is, but it is still not very intuitive when you're just getting into this.

The reason is that dues are based on calendar year and not specific points.

Yes, we tend to think of it that way, but it’s not really how they are calculated.

With direct, you never buy without current UY points so it’s a non issue.

I personally only bought Dec UY contracts that had current UY points…so something like that wouldn’t be on my radar because we bought when we wanted new points to use ASAP!

ETA: One reason I did hear once was because owners can borrow, they do have access immediately to use points in that calendar year before the start…

 

[Brian Noble]

As noted: The resale ecosystem tends to tie Dues to a specific set of points. However, DVC charges based on calendar years. Luckily, I did not have to think about it too hard because (a) I have a Feb UY and (b) I was buying at the end of a calendar year.

Most systems have similar oddities. For example, Wyndham charges weeks converted to points in the year piror to use, but "pure points" ownerships are charged during the year of use. Few people really get this, and it is often easier to adjust my overall offer vs. trying to explain it.

Oddly, even Wyndham didn't get it completely right when they converted my Hawaii weeks post-Lockdown, and made a related error in my favor. I tried to explain it out of a sense of fair play (after all, I was responsible for the missing fees) but they told me I was wrong. After trying to explain it a second time and being told I was wrong, I gave up.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Am I missing something when I am looking at resale? Say it is a 100 points.
2025 0
2026 41
2027 100
So instead of paying the dues on the 2026 41 pts, they want me to pay for dues on all 100 for 2026? Is this with all the resale companies or certain ones usually? I will def be watching this closer!

For sure pay closer attention and when you see something like this be sure to include in your offer that you will only be paying dues on 41 points and then when your contract arrives be sure to look for that verbiage in the contract.

 

[Girlstar30]

When you're first getting into the resale game, it can really be hard to get your head around the dues, who is typically responsible, and even more so with some of the UYs. It's still weird to me that a buyer of a December UY contract with no points available until December of 2026 would generally be expected to reimburse the seller for the dues that were billed for those points almost a year earlier. Gets less and less weird the earlier in the calendar year the UY is, but it is still not very intuitive when you're just getting into this.

What i dont like is when the broker makes it seem like you have to do something. Now I get it that theyre not going to tell you, "hey did you know you can negotiate this" And potentially drag things on and lose a sale. But I had a december uy for akv that I was buying after mf were due exactly what you said a 2024 one, and they didnt disclose that I was reimbursing mf and on the contract in small letters it said I was reimbursing the seller for all of 2024 points.

When I questioned it they told me "you are responsible for paying since you are getting the points" that is simply not true i dont HAVE to be responsible for this. And if it weren't for the boards I would think that everyone buying and using points has to pay mf.

DVC resale market also does this with their subpar title company, Magic. They just told me that Magic would be my title company and didnt say I had a choice in the matter. It was an archaic process having to print out every single closing document paper, sign it by hand and mail a huge packet by mail and then you have to find your own notary and witnesses which means I had to make it other people's business that id rather they not know we have this, and on top of that they charge more than the more efficient ones.

Let's not get started on them sending my social security number firpta proof thru email. If it wasnt for these boards I would not have the knowledge today to make a great purchase.

 

[Brian Noble]

Legally, I think the broker might be a neutral party---I don't really understand the ins and outs of Florida real estate law. In practice, the broker is working for the seller, and they are going to frame things in that light.

Some folks also have strong opinions about who pays for what. I don't care about any of that---I care about the out the door price. So, if someone has a hard line at "You pay for these Dues" fine, but my per-point price will adjust accordingly. If we can reach a deal, great! If not, fine.

 

[RMDVC24]

My approach to resale offers is to focus on the 'out the door price' rather than get bogged down in who pays the fees & MF. I plug all the numbers into my spreadsheet and determine what I feel is a comfortable price for that particular contract. I then negotiate based off that info.

I use the ROFR thread as a tool for valuable information, but I don't view it as a competition. I enter my details as accurately as possible because I feel that it is more important to provide real data than to try to wow the Disboards faithful lol.

At the end of the day, the most important thing for me is that my family is getting the most out of DVC our way!

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

My approach is a little different. Pay a little higher point cost, but ask for CAF and closing costs to be paid by the seller. Feels better mentally. Also, pay any dues within reason for the points you will be getting.

 

[PolyRob]

My approach is a little different. Pay a little higher point cost, but ask for CAF and closing costs to be paid by the seller. Feels better mentally. Also, pay any dues within reason for the points you will be getting.

Be careful asking for closing costs to be paid by the seller. This allows the seller to pick the title company and that's your only protection. It also determines how you can pay and what your notary options are. Not all closing companies are created equally.

An extreme example would be DVC Resale Market. It removes the points guarantee from the sales contract if you don't use the in-house agency. Someone could say yes to your offer and strip your DVC contract including borrowing points by transferring them all before the DVC contract appears in your dashboard. You would get $0 reimbursement since there would be nothing in your sales contract outlining the recovery. You would have to sue the seller and good luck with that.

 

[atthebeachclub]

My approach is a little different. Pay a little higher point cost, but ask for CAF and closing costs to be paid by the seller. Feels better mentally. Also, pay any dues within reason for the points you will be getting.

I think asking for closing costs and possibly CAF could be iffy. Some sellers might bite, but some will probably reflexively say “heck no!” Best to negotiate on cost per point or total you will bring to the table, and retain control of your own title company (who should work for you).

 

[VGCgroupie]

Everyone has their own negotiation style. What works for some might not work for others. I have found sellers tend to like to hear that they are selling at a higher price per point. Vs fees. In the end out the door is what matters most and I always factor that as my ultimate guideline. But there is an art to negotiation where you make the other party “feel” like they are getting more out of it than they really are. The easiest thing to negotiate is dues that have already been paid since the seller already spent that money.

Anyway. Yes always only use a title co you feel comfortable with. All the ones typically used are reputable.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

These are good points. Thought the title company we worked with was amazing. Maybe we just got lucky. But we did read the contract thoroughly and did make sure we would reimbursed for used points.

 

[Girlstar30]

Be careful asking for closing costs to be paid by the seller. This allows the seller to pick the title company and that's your only protection. It also determines how you can pay and what your notary options are. Not all closing companies are created equally.

An extreme example would be DVC Resale Market. It removes the points guarantee from the sales contract if you don't use the in-house agency. Someone could say yes to your offer and strip your DVC contract including borrowing points by transferring them all before the DVC contract appears in your dashboard. You would get $0 reimbursement since there would be nothing in your sales contract outlining the recovery. You would have to sue the seller and good luck with that.

Yikes, how scary! Had no clue. Ive never asked for a seller to pay closing costs, didnt even think of that, def thought that was my responsibility as a buyer, I would not be okay with them choosing Magic at all.

DVCRM must get a lot of money from Magic or something to be so heavily involved with them. I think them being so deep with them actually hurts them from repeat buyers because Fidelity is def my go to for buying and Magic def turned me off to DVRM. Ofc in my experience Fidelity also has was better deals.

DVCRM to me seems in more favor to the seller, I would probably go with them if I ever had to sell.

 

[Disney.dad]

Yikes, how scary! Had no clue. Ive never asked for a seller to pay closing costs, didnt even think of that, def thought that was my responsibility as a buyer, I would not be okay with them choosing Magic at all.

DVCRM must get a lot of money from Magic or something to be so heavily involved with them. I think them being so deep with them actually hurts them from repeat buyers because Fidelity is def my go to for buying and Magic def turned me off to DVRM. Ofc in my experience Fidelity also has was better deals.

DVCRM to me seems in more favor to the seller, I would probably go with them if I ever had to sell.

They own the title company thru one subsidiary or another. They also own the finance arm. From what I have seen using them as a seller their closing costs are a little high but paid for by the buyer. As someone who was a real estate attorney and did title insurance they are definitely making good money writing it. Probably 50% profit after labor expense and the insurance paper thru another underwriter, even more if they are there own company writing the guarantee. The risks are very low for a claim as long as they do their job. They were a good outfit to sell thru for sure.

 

[Girlstar30]

They own the title company thru one subsidiary or another. They also own the finance arm. From what I have seen using them as a seller their closing costs are a little high but paid for by the buyer. As someone who was a real estate attorney and did title insurance they are definitely making good money writing it. Probably 50% profit after labor expense and the insurance paper thru another underwriter, even more if they are there own company writing the guarantee. The risks are very low for a claim as long as they do their job. They were a good outfit to sell thru for sure.

Makes complete sense! Thank you for sharing that because I was wondering why they were so insistent with them! Well I thought Monera was wonderful but magic was not so magical to me Yes there closing costs are higher for less services, but it also doesnt surprise me that they were great to sell with in your experience! Im sure at some point I will sell a contract and they will be at the top of my list!

 

[Sandisw]

To add…at one time, the more fees a seller paid, the more attractive the offer would be to DVD since they step in as the buyer.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

So what it comes down to is offering a MUCH lower price per point, which then lowers the OTD cost AND you don’t have to worry about closing costs causing other issues.