RN - Associate or BSN

[DiznEeyore]

The timing of this thread is perfect for us! My dh lost his IT job over a year ago. He's been doing part-time jobs since then, and will have his Associate's in Liberal Arts next month. He's been thinking about going into nursing, and has been doing a lot of research into the best route to take.

A friend of my mil's (a nurse obviously) who teaches at a local university told him that if he were to finish his Bachelor's in any field (dh's would be Business -- he's starting those classes next month and hopes to be done within the year) then he can go to a university and get what she called a "second career degree" in nursing, which would be a BSN.

Before she mentioned this option to him (and according to her, all the local nursing schools within universities -- as opposed to the community colleges with the ADN programs -- do it), he'd planned to go for his ADN.

Obviously, time and finances are of the essence. He's read this entire thread and will go spend some time on allnurses.com We were just wondering if anyone was familiar with the "second career degree" program? TIA!

 

[harvey545]

I am an RN have been for 16years. I have an associate degree in Nursing. I love my work. I have never regrated not going on to school to get my BSN. BSN is important for some but not others. I do agree to get your associate first then go back to get the BSN if you still want to. Many of employers will help you go back to school. Good luck and happiness to you in what ever you decide. Marge

 

[mannasn]

A friend of my mil's (a nurse obviously) who teaches at a local university told him that if he were to finish his Bachelor's in any field (dh's would be Business -- he's starting those classes next month and hopes to be done within the year) then he can go to a university and get what she called a "second career degree" in nursing, which would be a BSN.

I think she was probably referring to an accelerated BSN program. There are some programs where you can earn your BSN in 12-18 months (going to school full-time) instead of the more standard 24-30 months spent in nursing courses. They're pretty intensive programs and aren't as widely offered as the generic ADN or BSN courses are. HTH. LMK if you have any further questions I might could answer.

 

[yeartolate]

I personally have not seen much of a salary differential for BSN. On the other hand, I make a handsome differential for my CCRN.

But the BSN may open up doors for you that an assosciates could not - but at the bedside it will make little difference unless you want to advance Most of the nurses that I know that went from ADN to BSN regretted that they did not get the BSN in the first place. They thought the programs available were tedious and expensive with lots of hoops to jump through. This may have to do with waiting too long to advance.

I am also concerned about the "online study" I have worked with several RN's that had this type of program and they washed out of hospital based nursing because they were too overwhelmed. Their program possibly didn't have a good enough clinical experience to back them up. I would speak to nurses who are in current practice following this program before I signed up for it.

 

[crisi]

The timing of this thread is perfect for us! My dh lost his IT job over a year ago. He's been doing part-time jobs since then, and will have his Associate's in Liberal Arts next month. He's been thinking about going into nursing, and has been doing a lot of research into the best route to take.

A friend of my mil's (a nurse obviously) who teaches at a local university told him that if he were to finish his Bachelor's in any field (dh's would be Business -- he's starting those classes next month and hopes to be done within the year) then he can go to a university and get what she called a "second career degree" in nursing, which would be a BSN.

Before she mentioned this option to him (and according to her, all the local nursing schools within universities -- as opposed to the community colleges with the ADN programs -- do it), he'd planned to go for his ADN.

Obviously, time and finances are of the essence. He's read this entire thread and will go spend some time on allnurses.com We were just wondering if anyone was familiar with the "second career degree" program? TIA!

One of my girlfriends is doing that. She was three years into a social work program when she decided she really wanted to be a nurse midwife. Around here, that's a masters program, so no ASN. She'll need a year between the social work and the nursing to finish prereqs social work didn't provide....biology and chemistry. My ex-sister-in-law (the one I rant about) did it as well. For her, it was about three years.

My sister has her masters in nursing administration, my BIL his masters in nursing as a CRNA. My cousin was a nurse practicioner (master's again) before she became a SAHM. And another girlfriend is finishing up schooling for her CRNA. All say that in this market (Minnesota) pay is greater for BSNs than ASNs and that hospitals will hire a BSN first. But that is older information. The big thing for all three of them is that only a Bachelors will let you get a Masters. I might have ambitious friends, but none have been happy with just nursing - they've all wanted more responsibility/ better pay/ or better hours associated with an advanced degree.

(CRNAs have interesting hours. My brother in law currently works two weeks on - where he can't be more than 10 minutes from the hospital and is on call 24 hours a day. Then two weeks off - where they can travel. He's worked other goofy schedules at other hospitals, but they all translate to "work for a few days, get a few off." The pay for CRNAs is excellent, generally six figures. But its a very competitive field to get into.)

 

[Rozzie]

You burn out incredibly quickly there....and that's what happened to me. That and hospital management....what an utter nightmare. Endless committees, ridiculous paperwork. In our incredibly litigious society, the term CYA (cover your .....) was the motto for the hospital and therefore it began to feel like
we were made to spend more time documenting what we were doing than we had to actually spend with patients. Understaffing was a *constant* problem.

this might be the truest, most realistic thing I have ever read on the internet!

First off, I have my ADN. The only reason I would go back would be for personal fulfillment. (lord, can't even spell it I am so tired, LOL) Pay? Mnnn...no, even though my hospital would pay me. Nursing school, was the best and worst experience of my life. Like dvcgirl said, we lost 75% of our class. It stretches you to your limit, and you discover you can do things you never thought you could. It really is a feeling getting pinned.

That said, I have to add, please talk to some nurses before you enter. Find the best hospitals, and get a tech job. Find the floor, unit you want to work on. Even if you work 4 hours a week, you will learn what it is to really work for that hospital. Everyone I graduated with (and me) signed committment bonuses without thinking of being stuck somewhere that we don't like. The reality of nursing is VERY different than school. The CYA thing is what kills me, I just had to take a 3 hour course that our hospital mandated, that pretty much was centered on"how not to get sued, and if you do, don't look to us". Buy your own liability insurance. Mine is only about $100 a year. Worth the extra peace.

2nd advice: work on the floor, medsurg for at least a year. I made a 2 year promise to myself, after a hard nose, respected instructor told me if I could work on the hardest busiest floor for 2 years without quitting, I could do anything in nursing. Boy is that true! My knowledge base from floor work really was the foundation to my career. Taught me organizational skills and how to's of WIDE range complex patient care. How to look at someone and say "this ain't good" without looking on a monitor, or on a chart. I say this, as I see the majority of new grads think the floor is "slumming" and they are too "smart" for it.

good luck in school! oh BTW, the salary's of some on this thread is killing me! My area is really low pay scale, I am lucky to get $20/hr. We offer a .15 increase for BSN's. whooooooho! big money....

 

[emh1129]

Well, I have a ADN, finished school in Jan 06, and found out today

I PASSED BOARDS

Congratulations!

 

[jenr812]

Honestly, now that you guys have turned me on to allnurses.com there's no need. I've spent the last few hours diving in. I'm learning a lot and there is a lot of great info on the NY board. I've been looking for a board just like this one; thanks so much all! The info there is going to save me from a lot of mistakes I was about to make.

So glad to hear that!

 

[DiznEeyore]

I think she was probably referring to an accelerated BSN program. There are some programs where you can earn your BSN in 12-18 months (going to school full-time) instead of the more standard 24-30 months spent in nursing courses. They're pretty intensive programs and aren't as widely offered as the generic ADN or BSN courses are. HTH. LMK if you have any further questions I might could answer.

Yes, that's it! Wayne State University offers the program, as do a few other local universities. My best friend's sil went through WSU's program and highly recommended it to dh.

The intensity of the program concerns me a bit, especially since he will have to go full-time during the day. I'm not sure how we'll work things at that point, but the first bridge to cross is the BA he has to earn.

He's currently teaching part-time at a community college and the pay is excellent -- he's hoping to add a couple more classes each term while going to school in the evenings and on weekends. I'm almost secretly hoping he gets a full-time teaching position because I know it would be much less disruptive on the family than nursing school! However, I will totally support him in whatever he chooses, of course. Gotta do the good wife thing!

 

[DiznEeyore]

One of my girlfriends is doing that. She was three years into a social work program when she decided she really wanted to be a nurse midwife. Around here, that's a masters program, so no ASN. She'll need a year between the social work and the nursing to finish prereqs social work didn't provide....biology and chemistry. My ex-sister-in-law (the one I rant about) did it as well. For her, it was about three years.

My sister has her masters in nursing administration, my BIL his masters in nursing as a CRNA. My cousin was a nurse practicioner (master's again) before she became a SAHM. And another girlfriend is finishing up schooling for her CRNA. All say that in this market (Minnesota) pay is greater for BSNs than ASNs and that hospitals will hire a BSN first. But that is older information. The big thing for all three of them is that only a Bachelors will let you get a Masters. I might have ambitious friends, but none have been happy with just nursing - they've all wanted more responsibility/ better pay/ or better hours associated with an advanced degree.

(CRNAs have interesting hours. My brother in law currently works two weeks on - where he can't be more than 10 minutes from the hospital and is on call 24 hours a day. Then two weeks off - where they can travel. He's worked other goofy schedules at other hospitals, but they all translate to "work for a few days, get a few off." The pay for CRNAs is excellent, generally six figures. But its a very competitive field to get into.)

Thanks for all the information on their experience. It gives us a lot to think about. I'm glad he's going to be taking the time to get his BA in Business and not "jumping" into nursing without lots of time to research it.

 

[wdwfamilyinIL]

Just thought I would join in also. I am three weeks away from completing my first year in an adn program. Since January I feel that I have went through things I never could imagine. I have been told if you make it through its the most rewarding career one could have, and I just keep telling myself that.
Our local hospital starts an RN with an ADN at 20.00 then there is shift premiums depending on what you work. For now I just want to make it through, so an ADN would be great at this moment in time. I do agree with others start with ADN, and let them pay for the Bachelors.

 

[Kellydelly]

Just thought I would join in also. I am three weeks away from completing my first year in an adn program. Since January I feel that I have went through things I never could imagine. I have been told if you make it through its the most rewarding career one could have, and I just keep telling myself that.
Our local hospital starts an RN with an ADN at 20.00 then there is shift premiums depending on what you work. For now I just want to make it through, so an ADN would be great at this moment in time. I do agree with others start with ADN, and let them pay for the Bachelors.

All the comments about nursing school being hell, or worse than could be imagined have me wondering what's so awful about it? I am gong to apply to the nursing school at my local community college this year and am curious what part of nursing school is horrendous. Is it the classes or the clinicals? Is the rigrorous schedule? Please fill me in !

 

[Rozzie]

All the comments about nursing school being hell, or worse than could be imagined have me wondering what's so awful about it? I am gong to apply to the nursing school at my local community college this year and am curious what part of nursing school is horrendous. Is it the classes or the clinicals? Is the rigrorous schedule? Please fill me in !

all of the above and more. I think the pressure at my school that anything below a 75 was a F. To make an A, you needed a 92. To make a B, you needed a 86. On the dreaded math test, anything below a 96 was a F.

To me the worst part was practicums. Hugh. I guess it was because they were always weeding us out, and making things harder and harder.

Clinicals? well won't even go there. I think a lot of the pressure I put on myself. My best advice is to cut everything in your life for the time you are in the program. I wouldn't even watch TV, almost 2 years. I remember after I graduated and passed boards, it took me forever to watch TV without feeling guilt. No disney trips, no trips at all. I missed a lot of birthday parties, and family functions. I found the people were struggling were the one's who just couldn't cut the fun out. We lost 75% of my class....

good luck! Remember to stay ahead, read before lecture, and study twice as hard as everyone else is, and you will be fine.

 

[wdwfamilyinIL]

Its everything that make it "hell." We have to have at least a 76 or its a F. We have three days worth of lecture, clinicals and that a week. On monday morning we have a test, and a care plan that is due. It takes me a good 2-3 hours to do a care plan. How do you study for a test that is over 7-8 chapters? We even had a mental health test that was 13 chapters. You get no chance to breathe. I have a family, and if it wasn't for good support from my DH then I wouldn't have made it this far. He had to become Mr Mom. We lost 10 people with our last section, we started with 38.

 

[Rozzie]

OMG, care plans.......won't even go there either! I am so glad those days are over!

 

[mamalle]

Originally Posted by dvcgirl


You burn out incredibly quickly there....and that's what happened to me. That and hospital management....what an utter nightmare. Endless committees, ridiculous paperwork. In our incredibly litigious society, the term CYA (cover your .....) was the motto for the hospital and therefore it began to feel like
we were made to spend more time documenting what we were doing than we had to actually spend with patients. Understaffing was a *constant* problem.

that is why I mainly work outpatient surgery owned soley by doctors and not affiliated with any hospital. I swear I say my hail marys when I go to work in the ER. the money is great dont get me wrong but Im sick of working my weekend shift and the whole house calls in sick and are capped- of course the ER cannot do the same and we are always holding for the rest of the house.It downright dangerous and Im trying to cover my *** and give good patient care- very hard to do these days.. Not to mention all the transfers we get for neurosurgery and hand. doesnt matter if its out of county or not. Our Admin. will not refuse anything..

 

[jennobrn01]

In my working experience as a RN the "BSN" is just pretty little letters at the end of your name. I have worked since grad (5 years ago) in a hospital setting. BSN's do not receive a higher pay grade. Probably 95% of the RN's hired after grad are diploma/associate degree RN's. Some go on to get the BS because they need it for their career goals. Those that want to remain in a hospital setting do not even bother.

My recommendation: Seek out a nursing program that is onsite at the hospital. These are usually diploma programs. Make your pick on the NCLEX pass rate. These programs turn out the stongest clinical nurses. After grad work in the hospital setting, and decide if you want the BS. The nursing program I graduated from was the traditional hospital based program. I have never regreted the blood, sweat and tears it took to get through that program. Nursing School hell is the hospital-based program. There is no words to describe it. Passing in my school was 80%. I knew a girl that was denied graduation because her grades reached a 75.4%. But when I graduated I could do any skill required of a RN. And no, I never got the BS. I may someday after my children are up and out... but for now... the hospital setting is my love.

 

[jenr812]

All the comments about nursing school being hell, or worse than could be imagined have me wondering what's so awful about it? I am gong to apply to the nursing school at my local community college this year and am curious what part of nursing school is horrendous. Is it the classes or the clinicals? Is the rigrorous schedule? Please fill me in !

In my program anything under an 80 is failing. I have been busting my butt and getting A's til last minimester - I missed it by one stinking point. I figure I just need to let my A obsession go though, because it isn't worth the stress.


We have class 1 or 2 days a week depending on the class and the classes are 2-3 hours long. But before each class, we are to prepare ourselves by reading between 300-600 pages and listen to 2-5 hours of lectures on CD. We are expected to learn the material at home and then our class time is used to go over case studies to apply what we've studied at home and also for us to ask questions and get clarification. We use the internet to communicate with our classmates and instructors also. We have 2 hours of community service to do for each class and it has to have something to do with what we are studying at that time.


Our clinical days are generally 12 hours (7a-7p) one day a week, but this minimester, we've gotten a break and they are only 7a-3p. Ironically, I actually wish they were 12 hours right now because we are in the section I plan to work in (L&D/postpartum). We used to have to do careplans for each clinical day (they take forever) but now we only have to do one satisfactory care plan the first week of class, and then we have to do a prep sheet for the rest of the clinicals in that class and that takes about an hour.


I am really enjoying my clinicals. I love helping people. Everytime I get to actually perform a skill I haven't done before, it is terrifying yet exhilirating at the same time. I cannot wait to graduate and start working as an RN.


The difficulty for me lies in balancing my family with school and church. I am overwhelmed with laundry, housework, taking the kids to their various activities, planning nutritious meals that everyone will eat and that won't break our budget, planning our budget, trying to spend time with DH once in while LOL, trying to get some quality time with each child and also as a group, sleeping (don't get much at all), etc, etc, etc. This is the most difficult thing I've ever done and I wish I had done it before having a family. However, we know it will be worth it all in the end. It helps that I'm planning a trip to WDW a week after I graduate as a reward for all of us!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think you should go for the BSN. Most of the other disciplines you will be dealing with have at least a bachelor's, and it will put you on an even playing field with them - especially since you will be making more money than many of them and they don't like that.

Whoever mentioned their hospital will not allow BSN on their nametags, that's outrageous. If you earn it, you should have the right to display it!

 

[emh1129]

The difficulty for me lies in balancing my family with school and church. I am overwhelmed with laundry, housework, taking the kids to their various activities, planning nutritious meals that everyone will eat and that won't break our budget, planning our budget, trying to spend time with DH once in while LOL, trying to get some quality time with each child and also as a group, sleeping (don't get much at all), etc, etc, etc. This is the most difficult thing I've ever done and I wish I had done it before having a family. However, we know it will be worth it all in the end. It helps that I'm planning a trip to WDW a week after I graduate as a reward for all of us!

I've enjoyed reading your posts I also want to work in L&D for a few years and then become a CNM. I am not sure if I will be starting nursing school this fall or the fall after (waiting to find out, but most likely it will be another year... sigh.. ). I'm just so nervous about having to balance nursing school and family... my little ones are 4 and 17 months. Any suggestions?

(Oh, and we're also planning to go to WDW once I graduate! )