Riviera vs. Aulani vs. Disneyland Hotel: WWYD

[Paul Stupin]

If I was in your shoes, I’d buy Riviera. It has the longest contract length and it will be cheaper to buy relative to DLT. In the long run, Riviera’s annual dues will be cheaper than Aulani IMO. Aulani’s oceanfront location is a prime target for annual hurricanes and expensive hurricane insurance. Hawaii also has one of the lowest minimum wage in the country at $10.25/hr. There is a lot of political talk and support of raising that to @18/hr, which will dramatically impact annual dues. There is also a lot of talk of raising hotel and Transit Accommodation Taxes to raise government revenue. In short, EVERYTHING in Hawaii is and will get more expensive, including DVC. I live on Oahu and I would never own Aulani as I could easily find availability during non peak seasons.

I understand your issues with Aulani, but I’m still glad I’m an owner. Since Aulani is our preferred place to stay in Oahu, and considering that everything will indeed get more expensive in Hawaii, including Aulani’s rack rates, I would bet the numbers still crunch in favor of DVC over the long term. It’s still a hedge against the ever rising cost of booking a room. I’m sure this will challenge someone more knowledgeable than I to take out a calculator and prove me wrong, but in my opinion it’s the best DVC resort by a long shot, and it’s nice to own (at least for the next 40 years or so) a piece of it.

And one other thing! Though many scoff at it ever happening, a few more crazy good incentives like the one offered last month will eventually help sell out the resort, even if it takes 5-10 more years. In the long run, the price per point will rise.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I understand your issues with Aulani, but I’m still glad I’m an owner. Since Aulani is our preferred place to stay in Oahu, and considering that everything will indeed get more expensive in Hawaii, including Aulani’s rack rates, I would bet the numbers still crunch in favor of DVC over the long term. It’s still a hedge against the ever rising cost of booking a room. I’m sure this will challenge someone more knowledgeable than I to take out a calculator and prove me wrong, but in my opinion it’s the best DVC resort by a long shot, and it’s nice to own (at least for the next 40 years or so) a piece of it.

And one other thing! Though many scoff at it ever happening, a few more crazy good incentives like the one offered last month will eventually help sell out the resort, even if it takes 5-10 more years. In the long run, the price per point will rise.

All your points are valid. The recent fire sale was ridiculous and I’m sure Disney sold a lot of points. And there’s some real deals to be had in the resale market too. It’s probably your best deal for SAP these days, especially if you could find a subsidized dues contract. I still won’t bite for the reasons mentioned. But we don’t mind staying there using my BLT points even though it kills me to use up my WDW points. The resort is beautiful and we have a blast every time we go. Though I’d argue that Grand Cal is probably the most beautiful DVC resort IMO. My biggest beef with both of these resorts is the cost. But I suppose it’s still better than tack rates. Why do we all call it that anyways.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Aulani’s oceanfront location is a prime target for annual hurricanes and expensive hurricane insurance. Hawaii also has one of the lowest minimum wage in the country at $10.25/hr. There is a lot of political talk and support of raising that to @18/hr, which will dramatically impact annual dues. There is also a lot of talk of raising hotel and Transit Accommodation Taxes to raise government revenue. In short, EVERYTHING in Hawaii is and will get more expensive, including DVC. I live on Oahu and I would never own Aulani as I could easily find availability during non peak seasons.

But is the hurricane threat really that great? I mean, Oahu gets hit with a good sized hurricane like every 20-30 years or so (ʻIniki in 1992 was the last direct hit) since there aren't many tropical cyclones in the Eastern Pacific, and Aulani's on the leeward side to-boot. If you look at the progression of MF's at HHI or VBR, and set those as the high end (since they are getting at least one of two tropical storms per year, and a hurricane at least kissing them every 2 or 3), then you can get an idea of what the Aulani increases should be with significantly lower storm threat.

Now, the minimum wage and taxes thing, that I would agree with 100%.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

But is the hurricane threat really that great? I mean, Oahu gets hit with a good sized hurricane like every 20-30 years or so (ʻIniki in 1992 was the last direct hit) since there aren't many tropical cyclones in the Eastern Pacific, and Aulani's on the leeward side to-boot. If you look at the progression of MF's at HHI or VBR, and set those as the high end (since they are getting at least one of two tropical storms per year, and a hurricane at least kissing them every 2 or 3), then you can get an idea of what the Aulani increases should be with significantly lower storm threat.

Now, the minimum wage and taxes thing, that I would agree with 100%.

I agree with you. We’ve been pretty lucky here on Oahu. But luck won’t stop the insurance companies from raising rates. My assessment is that Aulani will be in the same category with Vero Beach in terms of annual dues rates. Points will be cheap to buy but the dues will be sky high. Just my opinion.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I agree with you. We’ve been pretty lucky here on Oahu. But luck won’t stop the insurance companies from raising rates. My assessment is that Aulani will be in the same category with Vero Beach in terms of annual dues rates. Points will be cheap to buy but the dues will be sky high. Just my opinion.

I definitely see your point. I think the fact that Aulani is a curtain wall mid-rise versus the wood framed construction at VBR and HHI, makes it much more durable and less susceptible to storm damage and water intrusion, and the exterior cladding has a much longer serviceable life (which may be one reason the MF's are so low at Riviera), but those might be moot when you start factoring in the other costs you identified.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I definitely see your point. I think the fact that Aulani is a curtain wall mid-rise versus the wood framed construction at VBR and HHI, makes it much more durable and less susceptible to storm damage and water intrusion, and the exterior cladding has a much longer serviceable life (which may be one reason the MF's are so low at Riviera), but those might be moot when you start factoring in the other costs you identified.

If a cat 3-5 hurricane were to ever hit Oahu, Aulani is probably where I’d rather be for safety for all the reasons you mentioned. Break.

You think Riviera dues are low?

 

[WAstateDVCDaddy]

One other consideration might be the length of stay you plan at the resort. If you plan on 1-week stays, Aulani, as noted, will be difficult at the 7 month mark. If you’re going to do split stays (Waikiki + Aulani), shorter reservations are pretty easy to find (especially if you do your Aulani days mid-week).

With the price differential between direct and resale, I think it’s important to ask - “how many times will I want to stay at DLT? And will the cost of cash stays offset the money I’d save with resale?” We saved about 40% buying resale at Aulani, so it was really hard to justify buying direct for us.

 

[WAstateDVCDaddy]

But I suppose it’s still better than tack rates. Why do we all call it that anyways.

According to an LA Times article : “Years ago, hotels maintained their room control systems using "stock tickets." Each ticket represented a room, with its number, type of bedding and the "regular" rate. Tickets were placed in a slotted rack along with a slip of paper that showed the name of the guest and the rate that guest was paying.

Many times desk clerks would pocket tickets of their favorite rooms to hold them for their special friends and regular guests, since no rooms could be assigned without a stock ticket. At the end of each day, all stock tickets had to be accounted for in the night clerk's audit. The clerk often included a report for the hotel manager outlining any differences between the regular, or "rack," rate and the rate being paid.”

 

[DonMacGregor]

If a cat 3-5 hurricane were to ever hit Oahu, Aulani is probably where I’d rather be for safety for all the reasons you mentioned. Break.

You think Riviera dues are low?

I haven’t really looked. I am going from memory regarding several threads where people said that portion of the Riviera MF’s was proportionally lower than other resorts. One obvious reason is it’s newness, but capital reserves anticipate future maintenance and repairs 5, 10, or 15 years out, and I think that lower anticipated maintenance fees is also factoring in (and likely a smaller footprint spread over each point).

 

[Paul Stupin]

According to an LA Times article : “Years ago, hotels maintained their room control systems using "stock tickets." Each ticket represented a room, with its number, type of bedding and the "regular" rate. Tickets were placed in a slotted rack along with a slip of paper that showed the name of the guest and the rate that guest was paying.

Many times desk clerks would pocket tickets of their favorite rooms to hold them for their special friends and regular guests, since no rooms could be assigned without a stock ticket. At the end of each day, all stock tickets had to be accounted for in the night clerk's audit. The clerk often included a report for the hotel manager outlining any differences between the regular, or "rack," rate and the rate being paid.”

Very interesting. Thank you!

 

[PirateBrigade]

Hello! Fellow west coast VGC and AUL owner here. We are also contemplating our next move in terms of purchase. The best move, IMO, might be no move.

RIV -- Every 3 year vacation doesn't warrant a DVC contract, IMO.
AUL -- I feel like it's not horribly difficult to stay here if you're willing to book higher point level rooms, but this will likely be my next purchase (when the time comes). I've successfully used my AUL contract these last two years (of not going) by selling stays to friends or grabbing last minute VGC reservations.

DLT -- I'm feeling "meh" about the property, I'd rather stay at VGC, and if I'm out of points, just pay for GCH (or the premium hotels closeby... JW Marriott or Westin Anaheim Resort). The only thing that's keeping me from saying no altogether is the DisneylandForward initiative and all of the proposed development on that side of the resort.

For you, though, it's going to be tough because it's going to be studio-heavy.

Goodluck!

 

[vacay77]

Hello! Fellow west coast VGC and AUL owner here. We are also contemplating our next move in terms of purchase. The best move, IMO, might be no move.

RIV -- Every 3 year vacation doesn't warrant a DVC contract, IMO.
AUL -- I feel like it's not horribly difficult to stay here if you're willing to book higher point level rooms, but this will likely be my next purchase (when the time comes). I've successfully used my AUL contract these last two years (of not going) by selling stays to friends or grabbing last minute VGC reservations.

DLT -- I'm feeling "meh" about the property, I'd rather stay at VGC, and if I'm out of points, just pay for GCH (or the premium hotels closeby... JW Marriott or Westin Anaheim Resort). The only thing that's keeping me from saying no altogether is the DisneylandForward initiative and all of the proposed development on that side of the resort.

For you, though, it's going to be tough because it's going to be studio-heavy.

Goodluck!

This pinpointed it exactly. I had a lengthy conversation with my husband over the weekend - I think he’s tired of hearing me talk about it . Ultimately, we decided to hold off for now. If we were going every year or every other year, it would make more sense. But he doesn’t think it’ll make as much financial sense given the amount of annual dues for either property. For example, if we go to WDW once every 4 years, he’d rather just pay the rack rate versus the DVC financial obligation. I think we’d go more often than that, but who knows. I’ve had to cancel our WDW trip a couple of times this past year already due to a change in jobs. Even with that, though, my biggest issue is that I don’t want my son to eventually be responsible for 2 DVC properties.

I do think I could go to the Aulani every year and never get tired of it It’s truly my happy place besides Disneyland and the rack rates are so expensive.

 

[DVChris]

The only thing that's keeping me from saying no altogether is the DisneylandForward initiative and all of the proposed development on that side of the resort.

Is DisneylandForward progressing along? I've heard it was simply a tactic that Disney is using with the city but they won't actually build it. I'm debating GCV resale or waiting for DLT direct. I've been watching GCV resale and there's definitely a higher number of contracts on the market than 6 months ago. I wonder if it's because buyers are waiting for DLT?

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Hello! Fellow west coast VGC and AUL owner here. We are also contemplating our next move in terms of purchase. The best move, IMO, might be no move.

RIV -- Every 3 year vacation doesn't warrant a DVC contract, IMO.
AUL -- I feel like it's not horribly difficult to stay here if you're willing to book higher point level rooms, but this will likely be my next purchase (when the time comes). I've successfully used my AUL contract these last two years (of not going) by selling stays to friends or grabbing last minute VGC reservations.

DLT -- I'm feeling "meh" about the property, I'd rather stay at VGC, and if I'm out of points, just pay for GCH (or the premium hotels closeby... JW Marriott or Westin Anaheim Resort). The only thing that's keeping me from saying no altogether is the DisneylandForward initiative and all of the proposed development on that side of the resort.

For you, though, it's going to be tough because it's going to be studio-heavy.

Goodluck!

Agree on all points. The longer I contemplate, the less I desire DLT and the more I love VGC. I also never considered owning Aulani since I live in HI but the resale prices definitely make it worth considering, since other resorts have become so expensive. DL Foreward is not something I expect to enjoy since I’m in my 40’s and they said it’s a 30 year project. All in all, I’m learning to accept the points I already have and trying not get FOMO. Of course, it could all come crashing down once DLT sales begin. Until then, I’ll just live vicariously through everyone on these boards.

 

[vacay77]

Is DisneylandForward progressing along? I've heard it was simply a tactic that Disney is using with the city but they won't actually build it. I'm debating GCV resale or waiting for DLT direct. I've been watching GCV resale and there's definitely a higher number of contracts on the market than 6 months ago. I wonder if it's because buyers are waiting for DLT?

It’s still in the early stages - nothing definitive has been announced. As mentioned above, it can be a 30 year project. Hard to say why there a higher number of VGC contracts on the market - people might be selling to make more money (kinda like selling a house right now), some might be dissatisfied with the number of perks that have been taken away. My family loves VGC. I like the Disneyland Hotel but VGC’s location seals the deal for me.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I still haven’t wrapped my head around DLT and how I feel about it. DL is a completely different animal than WDW. I don’t feel like there is a Disney bubble like WDW. I’d like to get some points there, but the anticipated point chart and costs make me think it’s not for me. We’ll see.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I still haven’t wrapped my head around DLT and how I feel about it. DL is a completely different animal than WDW. I don’t feel like there is a Disney bubble like WDW. I’d like to get some points there, but the anticipated point chart and costs make me think it’s not for me. We’ll see.

Yeah, I think everyone is thinking the same. I used to think Disney will price DLT crazy high. But now I’m starting to think otherwise. Disney will haveto sell millions of points. And DVC is still a foreign concept for the most part to west coasters. I think they will price it reasonably to sell. At least that is my hope anyway.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I think it will sell really well. I’m just not sure if it’s for me. I’m just questioning whether staying on property is that big of a thing for me at DL. Again, I don’t have the answers yet. I’d like to do it, and I’m hoping I get a chance by spending some of my other points there. However, I don’t know about purchasing as a home resort.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I think it will sell really well. I’m just not sure if it’s for me. I’m just questioning whether staying on property is that big of a thing for me at DL. Again, I don’t have the answers yet. I’d like to do it, and I’m hoping I get a chance by spending some of my other points there. However, I don’t know about purchasing as a home resort.

Have you stay at Grand Californian? It ruined me forever and I can’t stay off site anymore.

 

[HappyThoughtsTees]

I think I know the answer to this but was curious to get other thoughts. My family’s home resort is VGC. We live on the west coast and we visit Disneyland once a year. Because of that, I don’t want to use our VGC points to book other DVC properties.

We go to WDW probably once every three years and the same with Hawaii (although my wish is that it would be once a year, which could be possible). My favorite resort is the Aulani. It’s my version of paradise and it’s the reason why my family considered DVC in the first place. Anyway, I’ve been debating whether we should add on, either Riviera or Aulani, or just wait until the Disneyland Tower opens up (or maybe not even buy at all!). I want to buy where we can use our points at WDW and the Aulani. The Disneyland Tower would be nice but tbh, I’d prefer to stay at VGC.

If Riviera and Aulani aren’t my home resorts, would there be availability to book them 7 months in advance if my family ends up buying at Disneyland Tower? Also direct vs. resale isn’t too important to me since we are already direct members BUT I would like to stay at Riviera at some point because I’ve heard great things about it. Just wanted to see if there are other things I should be considering. I do think direct is the way to go so that I’m not restricted from booking at Riviera (or Disneyland Hotel at some point). I wouldn’t even consider buying at all but cash stays are getting more expensive and I’ve become accustomed to 1 BR. But, if we do end up adding on, it would have to be a resort that I could use for both WDW and Aulani.

We are in a similar boat- we live in CA, and own VGC & Aulani resale, Saratoga direct. The studio heavy DLT isn't as appealing for us as we have 3 young children and competing for the few larger rooms at the 11 month marks sounds awful. The lack of balconies, the iffy views, and lack of quick service onsite are also drawbacks for us. If we see the opportunity to book with our Saratoga points we may give it a try. I'd like my next contract to be an Aulani subsidized, if I can snag one for a reasonable price. That would actually be my recommendation for you as well. Gives you home court advantage at a resort you love, lower dues, decent length contract. You may pay a little higher price per point, but if you plan on keeping the contract for the long haul, $10 per point price difference washes out in a few years. You can use your Aulani points to book at WDW at the 7 month mark, or rent them out for cash, and use the cash to rent WDW points from other owners. Good luck with your decision, anything you choose means years of wonderful vacations!