Riviera resale restrictions lifting: possible

Chuck S

DVC Co-Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 6, 2000
Assuming DVC will continue building new resorts and or revamping and reselling the L14 resorts as they expire, and that the RIV restrictions would be lifted after the resorts are refurbished and resold as "new" resorts, the restrictions have little impact on decision I may make to purchase RIV. Given that low resale is pretty much the norm in timeshares, and that I really expected no resale value when I first purchased, I had no idea if resale value would be decent for DVC at OKW in 1992, since there wasn't much of a resale market back then.
 

RaymOOOnd

Mouseketeer
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
It's true that, even with the resale restrictions, DVC is a fine timeshare no worse than any other -- and that a purchaser of a timeshare wouldn't reasonably expect to be able to sell it for anything more than a few pennies.

Which is why.... buying a timeshare is widely considered an absolutely terrible financial idea, on average! The point is that DVC was always the exception, the tragedy being that they no longer are.

In which case, yes -- it's now in my opinion a terrible idea, just like buying any other timeshare.
 

RivShore

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Interesting conversation but I am not sure that I believe it or should say, won’t believe it until it’s announced,

My prediction, however, if this was ever to come to pass, is that they will allow RIV resale to be used at new resorts as well, but not grant it back to L14.
This idea makes sense, lifting the restrictions on only new resorts - officially starting DVC 2.0.

The other possibility we discussed in another thread was DVC starting to sell "qualified" points - so if you bought the points resale, if you wanted all booking restrictions removed, you could pay Disney a per point fee. I assume this could be done without the need for any deed or contract changes so if changes are in the air, this could make sense too.
 
  • CarolMN

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Aug 18, 1999
    I would have considered Riviera for sure. The resale restrictions made it a no go, so I bought another SSR resale instead. As that was my fourth contract it’s now likely my last, but I also said that after number 3 so I could still be tempted if they removed the restrictions and I decide to buy more points, or I’m blown away by it when visiting at Xmas.
    I've also been telling myself this. However, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to choke on the point chart (way too high compared to BWV) and those maintenance fees. It's starting to feel like I'll have to be satisfied with a ride on the Skyliner and the occasional dinner at Topolino's Terrace. I think that will work - since I can always change my mind, LOL.
     

    CarolMN

    DVC Co-Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Aug 18, 1999
    ..........The other possibility we discussed in another thread was DVC starting to sell "qualified" points - so if you bought the points resale, if you wanted all booking restrictions removed, you could pay Disney a per point fee. I assume this could be done without the need for any deed or contract changes so if changes are in the air, this could make sense too.
    DVD will not provide any incentive to purchase resale. It doesn't make any sense for DVD to price it at a level most resale buyers would accept. It is unlikely to happen at a per point fee less than DVD's profit for buying direct.
     

    Gary Carter

    GrryC
    Joined
    Aug 1, 2018
    I'm not sure I would ever buy there, even if I could afford it (I cant) knowing in the future they have the ability to add the restriction back on, even if they took it off.
     

    mustinjourney

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 8, 2016
    I could see lawsuits coming from owners who sold cheap because of the restrictions.
    I can't even imagine what the grounds would be for suing. The restrictions were in place when they bought. They got what they bargained for.

    They could try and sue -- but I don't know that any attorney would take the case -- certainly not on contingency. And I'd be shocked if anyone would pay an attorney thousands of dollars to pursue a potential claim of a few thousand dollars.
     

    Sandisw

    Moderator
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I can't even imagine what the grounds would be for suing. The restrictions were in place when they bought. They got what they bargained for.

    They could try and sue -- but I don't know that any attorney would take the case -- certainly not on contingency. And I'd be shocked if anyone would pay an attorney thousands of dollars to pursue a potential claim of a few thousand dollars.
    I agree. I think it’d be hard to show how much less they received from the restriction because there are no sales of RIV without it to show the loss.

    We already know one contract went for. $140 and maybe $121. How would one prove it should have sold for more?
     

    mustinjourney

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 8, 2016
    I agree. I think it’d be hard to show how much less they received from the restriction because there are no sales of RIV without it to show the loss.

    We already know one contract went for. $140 and maybe $121. How would one prove it should have sold for more?
    they could've sold it for $50 -- and it still wouldn't matter though. I simply can't fathom what the legal basis would be. Fraudulent inducement? that ain't gonna work.
     

    jerseyduke

    Home is just where you stay when not at WDW
    Joined
    Jan 19, 2013
    He said at least three times that he expects to see a change coming on the resale restrictions very, very soon.
    That promise and a token will get you on the subway.

    Until its done, its of zero value.

    (but thank you for sharing your info - not saying you shouldnt have - just that he/she is a typical salesperson.
     

    CanadaDisney05

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 20, 2017
    The other possibility we discussed in another thread was DVC starting to sell "qualified" points - so if you bought the points resale, if you wanted all booking restrictions removed, you could pay Disney a per point fee. I assume this could be done without the need for any deed or contract changes so if changes are in the air, this could make sense too.
    DVD will not provide any incentive to purchase resale. It doesn't make any sense for DVD to price it at a level most resale buyers would accept. It is unlikely to happen at a per point fee less than DVD's profit for buying direct.
    I've been saying this for awhile. I can see this as the eventual path Disney takes. This is how other timeshares operate and it makes perfect sense.

    Why does Disney hate resale anyways? They don't like it because it takes away from their direct sales and cause them administrative work (costs) without them getting anything in return. If they offer an add-on to "qualify" resale points, DVC basically profits while the resale companies do all the work and take all the expenses. This leaves them more inventory to sell before having to take on more capital expenditure on the next resort. Its basically free money. Of course, the price has to be set at a point where it's worth it for DVC, but also worth it for the buyer.
     

    RivShore

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 27, 2019
    I've been saying this for awhile. I can see this as the eventual path Disney takes. This is how other timeshares operate and it makes perfect sense.

    Why does Disney hate resale anyways? They don't like it because it takes away from their direct sales and cause them administrative work (costs) without them getting anything in return. If they offer an add-on to "qualify" resale points, DVC basically profits while the resale companies do all the work and take all the expenses. This leaves them more inventory to sell before having to take on more capital expenditure on the next resort. Its basically free money. Of course, the price has to be set at a point where it's worth it for DVC, but also worth it for the buyer.
    Exactly, qualifying fees will not add any cost only revenue - 100% margin - a businesses dream!

    I would see this being done for only sold out resorts where DVC's profit is much less since they have to buy back the points at ROFR. It all seems to make too much sense.
     

    bobbiwoz

    I'm happy to dance with you!
    Joined
    Aug 26, 2003
    The topic was not brought up at all on the DVC presentation on our cruise this weekend.
     

    Ben E N

    DIS Veteran
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    Jul 14, 2017
    The topic was not brought up at all on the DVC presentation on our cruise this weekend.
    Nor would it be. If it was actually in the works, but not something that is 100% certain yet, they wouldn't want to publicize it.
    This would imply to current buyers that what they are potentially buying into, with its current restrictions, is not as good as it can get. And it would infuriate buyers if it did not end up coming to fruition.
     

    ELMC

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Jul 4, 2011
    I've been saying this for awhile. I can see this as the eventual path Disney takes. This is how other timeshares operate and it makes perfect sense.

    Why does Disney hate resale anyways? They don't like it because it takes away from their direct sales and cause them administrative work (costs) without them getting anything in return. If they offer an add-on to "qualify" resale points, DVC basically profits while the resale companies do all the work and take all the expenses. This leaves them more inventory to sell before having to take on more capital expenditure on the next resort. Its basically free money. Of course, the price has to be set at a point where it's worth it for DVC, but also worth it for the buyer.
    Right. But in order to do this they first had to materially differentiate resale and direct. As discussions on these forums would suggest, this hasn't been the case for a long time, and the first two to three rounds of restrictions didn't do the trick either. Now that people are starting to see a fundamental difference, they can conceive of paying to qualify your points. Like you said...free money.
     

    ELMC

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Jul 4, 2011
    I've also been telling myself this. However, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to choke on the point chart (way too high compared to BWV) and those maintenance fees. It's starting to feel like I'll have to be satisfied with a ride on the Skyliner and the occasional dinner at Topolino's Terrace. I think that will work - since I can always change my mind, LOL.
    Not so fast. You can book a room through CRO for 40% off and stay for a cost less than owners (for 1BRs, not so much with studios).
     

    Soap_1984

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 30, 2019
    I've been saying this for awhile. I can see this as the eventual path Disney takes. This is how other timeshares operate and it makes perfect sense.

    Why does Disney hate resale anyways? They don't like it because it takes away from their direct sales and cause them administrative work (costs) without them getting anything in return. If they offer an add-on to "qualify" resale points, DVC basically profits while the resale companies do all the work and take all the expenses. This leaves them more inventory to sell before having to take on more capital expenditure on the next resort. Its basically free money. Of course, the price has to be set at a point where it's worth it for DVC, but also worth it for the buyer.
    What they may not be considering however is how resale helps the product sell. Now if almost all buyers do not know about resale it is a moot point, but for some it is an additional selling feature that actually allows them to charge more. I cannot justify buying Riv at the current price if I assume it will be nearly worthless in 25 years. If I could sell it without restriction I could perhaps make a case to buy.
     

    eMoneyBug

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 1, 2012
    I was at MM at DCA but didn’t go bother the execs, but if I had walked by I would have asked them if they would be inline with me buying some RIV resale at $85 🤣
     

    _auroraborealis_

    I like marshmallows. And adult beverages.
    Joined
    Oct 18, 2015
    I definitely see people proclaim that they would never buy resale, that Disney will take care of direct members and screw resale members somehow someday.

    Kool aid has been gargled or potentially taken straight by IV by some. Saw someone proclaiming this about BLT today for someone with a blue card who wants to add on.
     

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