Riviera Owners Are Going To Make Booking At 7 Months Much More Difficult

[Sandisw]

The point charts I have been strictly focusing on have been the summer time ones. Sorry I briefly mentioned that elsewhere but didn't further emphasize it later. The 27 point value was an average of 26 points for weekday and 30 for weekend studio costs.
I agree that anybody can go to any resort. Those comparisons were done to show just how high Riviera rooms cost in general. I still think the comparison of Riviera to the other Epcot area resorts is the most significant. And yes, the basic feeling I have is that there will be owners who will buy direct there and end up surprised at how much more expensive per night it is and will look to go elsewhere, and that there will also not be an equal enough number of owners who will be interested in trading in. It's all obviously a lot of predictions based on extrapolating limited data from elsewhere, but its enough to create a hypothesis. I don't think anything can be done about it, as once the points for a resort are declared it's a done deal, but I thought it was something worth sharing out in the Mousecellanous forum.

Yes, summer in a preferred is going to cost someone more than the other Epcot resorts, but its also one of the lower demand times as well,

Your thread is about, I thought, that way more RIV owners are going to want out more often than others will want in because they will realize they can go elsewhere for cheaper and that it will push owners like you, who do the same thing, to find it harder to trade,

While you might see a tick up in the summer, there are many more times during the year where that won’t be the case. There will also be people who want to stay at RIV occasionally, and will make the choice to splurge once and a while, if they decide the resort is worth it.

You are assuming that RiV owners will find no value in the resort to justify spending more, way more than other DVC members currently do about the other DVC resorts.

Many of the posts regarding RIV so far are pretty positive and I think it will remain popular enough that it will have no more or no less impact than SSR or Poly does now,

 

[Ben E N]

You are assuming that RiV owners will find no value in the resort to justify spending more, way more than other DVC members currently do about the other DVC resorts.

I think that's a bit too much of a stretch. I'm not trying to make this complicated or trash the resort. Let me try breaking this down a bit more.

1. It is priced per night very similarly to GFV, a resort that does not have much trouble booking all of its rooms. This shows that there is at least some demand for "deluxe" DVC accommodations.

2. It is, however, twice the size of GFV in terms of how many rooms it has. It may be too big to accommodate all those deluxe type members on a consistent basis.

3. It is being sold as the 3rd cheapest resort per point overall, and the cheapest per year, and is being actively marketed to all members. This is sure to attract many "value" type purchasers who are looking to get more days for their money vs. a more premium experience.

4. Unlike GFV and PVB, it does not sit on the pricey Seven Seas Lagoon. If you want to stay there, you have no other options. With Riviera staying next to Caribbean Beach, and not walkable to any parks, it's biggest perk is access to the skyliner. Both BWV and BCV have the same access, and are walkable to two parks. They are also both significantly cheaper.

This combination of factors is very likely to drive people out of Riviera as soon as they can book elsewhere. This will especially happen at the Epcot area resorts, but will also happen elsewhere.
There will be some demand to book the Riviera studios, but not enough to fill all the rooms that have been abandoned in a timely manner.
This will then in turn make it harder to switch from other resorts at 7 months, as there will be more people added to the system with less people trading in to replace them.
This could have been avoided if DVC had set the price of Riviera rooms to a more moderate level that would appeal to more members.

 

[Spark65]

1 - Hmmnnn
2 - Every been to WL/CC
3 - Ever hear of resale
4 - Sounds of snobbery it sits on a body of water too. I have never stayed at CB but I doubt it's full of homeless people. BWV and BC have a half life compared to RIV and from what many say could use a better refurb

5 - There's that 7 month thing you keep banging on about

 

[Bing Showei]

In essence, it appears that DVD is once again "overselling" studios by having too high a purchase price, too many points needed per night, and a too low minimum point purchase requirement, with the result that many are buying a relatively low number of points to get tower or standard studios and are now starting to find they cannot always get them at 11-months out.

And sadly, this is nothing new, just a continuation of the developer's objective of moving volume in spite of the long term impact on the Disney timeshare ecosystem.

It started with the sale of VGF. A lot of smaller, studio-sized contracts were being sold against the larger units on property. A practice that guides recognized and management was made well aware of when the resort was being actively sold. This was shared with me directly by a former guide. Because of the high (at the time) point cost and the unprecedentedly high point charts (an unsurpassed achievement to date), a lot of small contracts continued to be sold even as the resort approached selling out.

The practice took a new twisted turn with the introduction of the bungalows at PVB and became more refined with the Cabins at CCV. But small point contracts for studios sold against larger units is a continued DVD practice. If one is in the market for a standard studio, good luck to you.

This is not unique to Riviera.

If the title of this thread were "New Disney Timeshare Owners are Going to Make Booking at 7-Months Much More Difficult" there would probably be little pushback. But I would include the following groups all making 7-months more difficult.

- Resale owners buying BCV, VGC, VGF, BWV (greedy people never booking outside their home resort)
- Retail/Resale owners buying SSR, OKW, AKV, BLT to get direct benefits but plan to trade out regularly at 7-months
- VB, HHI, AUL owners because VB, HH, HI
- Park buyers who responded to the siren calls of free fast passes and gift cards
- DCL buyers who know nothing of the product because they didn't pay for the on-board wifi package

And each and every one of those owners should have zero qualms about whatever stress they may put on the system at 7-months because they're using their points exactly as it was sold to them.

Based on what the resort offers and the access to the two theme parks, I would wager Riviera falls somewhere north of the net neutral 7-month impact. The resale restriction impact on point movements is still a big question-mark which probably wont' be resolved for a long time.

The point is, DVD is Going to Make Booking at 7-Months Much More Difficult. And as long as product continues to move, I don't see that changing.

 

[skier_pete]

This is based on the best piece of evidence that we have available, @skier_pete's excellently gathered evidence of how quickly rooms are getting booked up. BLT lake view studios disappear shortly after 7 months for the majority of the year. The cheaper standard view ones of course are gone well before then.

I agree that this is all just a prediction, but it is one based on what information we currently have access to. @zavandor's post about the studio having slightly larger beds is the only piece that has me even slightly doubting that this will follow the pattern of the most expensive rooms going last that we have seen at all but the most exclusive of resorts.

I am not implying that Riviera owners are being greedy, either. I am implying that Disney is setting up a system that is bound to at least in part fail, and that people who are buying into Riviera are for the most part unintentionally playing a role in that. I don't think people are spending $180 per point just to sleep around, but do feel that they will get sick of only 4 day trips when they could be getting 5-8 days by staying elsewhere.

So - I would agree with your original point - that Riviera will make for more competition at 7 months - but not necessarily for the reason you express. I think the amount of stress to the system caused by people wanting to move out because of high point values won't be much different than the other high point value resorts - but Riviera - at least initially - will get a lot of the reverse movement as well, people wanting to try the new resort - even at higher price points.

The greater causes are likely the typical ones. Every new resort "Stresses" the system in two ways:

1) More pressure on the most popular resorts. This isn't necessarily about "cheaper" points, but just what's popular. The example I would use is VGF - which is even more expensive than Riviera, but absolutely the hardest to get into at 7-months along with BCV and VGC. Even Poly and BLT remain pretty difficult to get, not because they are cheap, but because they are well-located. Some of that has to do with size as well. However, I would think that Riviera would be a fairly popular resort in and of itself. Certainly more popular than SSR, OKW, AKV, and probably initially anyways the WLV pair (CCV/BRV). So yes, it would cause some stress on more popular resorts, but % wise it may not be that noticable.
2) The studio dilemma: The worst stress is likely not because of higher points per night - but because a lot of buyers are buying for studios - potentially more than studios are available. This continues to put greater and greater stress across the whole system on studios in general. And I agree because the point system is high at riviera - that makes that studio stress across the system higher than normal.

So yes, I agree that you caught an issue that could cause some stress - but how much it really causes is debatable. It will definitely cause item #2, because all resorts do - and the higher overall points there will likely make that aspect worse. But a lot will depend on the popularity of Riviera as compared to the rest of the system, which we really won't know for sure for probably 5-6 years. Where does Riviera fall on that item #1, is it a very popular location (like BLT), or not so popular (like OKW) or somewhere in the middle. If it's popular, than that should offset #2 enough to not stress the system too badly. Resorts like SSR are the worst for the system - regardless of the fact that some rooms are "cheap", people just prefer staying elsewhere.

 

[Sandisw]

I think that's a bit too much of a stretch. I'm not trying to make this complicated or trash the resort. Let me try breaking this down a bit more.

1. It is priced per night very similarly to GFV, a resort that does not have much trouble booking all of its rooms. This shows that there is at least some demand for "deluxe" DVC accommodations.

2. It is, however, twice the size of GFV in terms of how many rooms it has. It may be too big to accommodate all those deluxe type members on a consistent basis.

3. It is being sold as the 3rd cheapest resort per point overall, and the cheapest per year, and is being actively marketed to all members. This is sure to attract many "value" type purchasers who are looking to get more days for their money vs. a more premium experience.

4. Unlike GFV and PVB, it does not sit on the pricey Seven Seas Lagoon. If you want to stay there, you have no other options. With Riviera staying next to Caribbean Beach, and not walkable to any parks, it's biggest perk is access to the skyliner. Both BWV and BCV have the same access, and are walkable to two parks. They are also both significantly cheaper.

This combination of factors is very likely to drive people out of Riviera as soon as they can book elsewhere. This will especially happen at the Epcot area resorts, but will also happen elsewhere.
There will be some demand to book the Riviera studios, but not enough to fill all the rooms that have been abandoned in a timely manner.
This will then in turn make it harder to switch from other resorts at 7 months, as there will be more people added to the system with less people trading in to replace them.
This could have been avoided if DVC had set the price of Riviera rooms to a more moderate level that would appeal to more members.

Every one of your points just proved that you have determined that Rivera is not worth its point cost and that many RIV owners will figure that out and that very few will want to stay there,

You certainly can decide that for yourself, but to decide that most owners think the same way is just being short sighted.

DVC always prices a resort in active sales lower than sold out resorts, That is not unique to RIV, They just raise the point cost for the other resorts, not because they are better, but because they want to encourage people to choose RIV...a tactic they do all the time,

You have now crossed into changing the argument that it’s just about point cost, but instead of deciding that the majority of people bought RIV, because that was what was pushed, will wake up, not like the resort and it’s high point cost.which you refuse to admit that there are many times a year that it’s not as doomsday as summer..and begin to always want out.

 

[Sandisw]

And sadly, this is nothing new, just a continuation of the developer's objective of moving volume in spite of the long term impact on the Disney timeshare ecosystem.

It started with the sale of VGF. A lot of smaller, studio-sized contracts were being sold against the larger units on property. A practice that guides recognized and management was made well aware of when the resort was being actively sold. This was shared with me directly by a former guide. Because of the high (at the time) point cost and the unprecedentedly high point charts (an unsurpassed achievement to date), a lot of small contracts continued to be sold even as the resort approached selling out.

The practice took a new twisted turn with the introduction of the bungalows at PVB and became more refined with the Cabins at CCV. But small point contracts for studios sold against larger units is a continued DVD practice. If one is in the market for a standard studio, good luck to you.

This is not unique to Riviera.

If the title of this thread were "New Disney Timeshare Owners are Going to Make Booking at 7-Months Much More Difficult" there would probably be little pushback. But I would include the following groups all making 7-months more difficult.

- Resale owners buying BCV, VGC, VGF, BWV (greedy people never booking outside their home resort)
- Retail/Resale owners buying SSR, OKW, AKV, BLT to get direct benefits but plan to trade out regularly at 7-months
- VB, HHI, AUL owners because VB, HH, HI
- Park buyers who responded to the siren calls of free fast passes and gift cards
- DCL buyers who know nothing of the product because they didn't pay for the on-board wifi package

And each and every one of those owners should have zero qualms about whatever stress they may put on the system at 7-months because they're using their points exactly as it was sold to them.

Based on what the resort offers and the access to the two theme parks, I would wager Riviera falls somewhere north of the net neutral 7-month impact. The resale restriction impact on point movements is still a big question-mark which probably wont' be resolved for a long time.

The point is, DVD is Going to Make Booking at 7-Months Much More Difficult. And as long as product continues to move, I don't see that changing.

You nailed it!

 

[Ben E N]

You have now crossed into changing the argument that it’s just about point cost, but instead of deciding that the majority of people bought RIV, because that was what was pushed, will wake up, not like the resort and it’s high point cost.

I don't think that's a change of my argument. That's the exact argument I made in the first post. Then there is the added piece that I don't think enough people will want to trade in to make up for it. One small but important piece, though. I don't think it will necessarily be the "majority" of owners, but rather a significantly high enough minority.
I acknowledge that there are a lot of assumptions built into this prediction, and fully understand if people don't agree with it. I also agree that resale restrictions on each side of Riviera will play a larger role in exchanges over the long term. I just saw something in regards to the point charts that affected me personally, and realized that it may in fact impact a large number of owners, and was worth discussing.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't think that's a change of my argument. That's the exact argument I made in the first post. Then there is the added piece that I don't think enough people will want to trade in to make up for it. One small but important piece, though. I don't think it will necessarily be the "majority" of owners, but rather a significantly high enough minority.
I acknowledge that there are a lot of assumptions built into this prediction, and fully understand if people don't agree with it. I also agree that resale restrictions on each side of Riviera will play a larger role in exchanges over the long term. I just saw something in regards to the point charts that affected me personally, and realized that it may in fact impact a large number of owners, and was worth discussing.

You right, I should not have said change. Your assumption it will affect a large amount of owners to the point it stresses resort demand more than others, is now not only based on just finding something cheaper, but rather they won’t find enough value in RIV to continue to stay there.

I guess we will see what happens. Right now, studios through June are pretty much gone in all types and fall, owners are snagging up the SV rooms. In a month or two we will hit 7 month booking for Fall and we will see how many non owners decide to book up those preferred rooms or if those SV rooms get dropped by owners.

 

[keishashadow]

As someone who bought BLT resale I am finding myself trading out a lot more than staying there. BLT is great, and I thought I would be there at least 50% of the time, but when I see that it is over 20 points per night for a Lakeview studio, and that I can get a studio that sleeps 5 for 18 or less points, of course I pause and look elsewhere.

Frankly, I wish more BLT folks would trade out. Haven’t been able to flip over at 7 months for several years

Sure, it may increase competition at 7 months for the non-home resorts but every new DVC that opens does that anyway. I guess I don't see this as too much of a problem.

Therein lies the problem, more competition at 7 months for likely the ‘same’ properties...especially for those looking for studios to sleep more than 2 pp

The concern, which we will simply have to see if its valid or not over time, is that the price point of RIV (in points) is going to be less desirable to legacy owners, leading to RIV owners who buy direct wanting to trade out and joining the 7-month "rope drop" stampede for the popular OG resorts, without approximately equal resort owners (who don't own at Saratoga) wanting to come in.

100% my thought but who knows, RIV owners may just become loyalists to their home resort.

Always wondered the true % of people who do regularly trade out. Not necessarily talking those who bought heavily discounted resale with that intent in mind at the get-go.

We tend to stick with our home resorts. Have sampled the other resorts that interest us. Do find the ones where we’d want to return and typically not available at 7 months. Glad we did buy where we are happy to stay but not thrilled with the difficultly walking has caused for AKV value studios at 11 months.

 

[jarestel]

Therein lies the problem, more competition at 7 months for likely the ‘same’ properties...especially for those looking for studios to sleep more than 2 pp

But the only solution is to stop building DVC properties... Most folks like new resorts so that's not likely to happen!

 

[lisaviolet]

I have never had an issue using a slew of points booking VGF and the Polynesian. Not one ounce of hesitation. But I absolutely would with Riviera. I assume OP that you are thinking a lot of Riviera buyers will come to a similar conclusion over time, about their own resort. After trading out and experiencing how far their points can go elsewhere.

However, I have never understood any intense feelings (not directed at you OP) - played out here year after year - about who, what, where adversely impacts the system at seven months. That IS the system, a fun little free-for-all.

 

[Ben E N]

I have never had an issue using a slew of points booking VGF and the Polynesian. Not one ounce of hesitation. But I absolutely would with Riviera. I assume OP that you are thinking a lot of Riviera buyers will come to a similar conclusion over time, about their own resort. After trading out and experiencing how far their points can go elsewhere.

However, I have never understood any intense feelings (not directed at you OP) - played out here year after year - about who, what, where adversely impacts the system at seven months. That IS the system, a fun little free-for-all.

Agreed. I know I titled the thread as "Riviera owners will...", but the real overall impact is things are about to get a little tighter, especially on the studio front. The same happened with PVB due to the bungalows, and Copper Creek due to the cabins and small percentage of studios, and I'm sure it goes back plenty further than that. It just furthers the importance of buying where you want (or at least don't mind) to stay.

 

[DougEMG]

Each new resort places stress on the 7 month window just cause there are now more members looking to try out those high demand rooms.

RIV has pretty good access to 2 parks and should prove to be just behind BWV and BCV in popularity. I suspect RIV will be harder to get at 7 months than OKW, SSR and AKV, especially when there are a significant number of resale owners that can't trade out.

Really anyone buying today that wants to stay in anything other than 1 bedrooms really should buy where they want to stay.

I use my BWV and BLT to always stay at those resorts.I have used my OKW and SSR points to stay at OKW/SSR, but also at every other resort, including multiple times at VGF and I am a point miser. I will probably give RIV a try, using my SSR points, but really don't see going there that often as I own at BWV.

 

[Sandisw]

Each new resort places stress on the 7 month window just cause there are now more members looking to try out those high demand rooms.

RIV has pretty good access to 2 parks and should prove to be just behind BWV and BCV in popularity. I suspect RIV will be harder to get at 7 months than OKW, SSR and AKV, especially when there are a significant number of resale owners that can't trade out.

Really anyone buying today that wants to stay in anything other than 1 bedrooms really should buy where they want to stay.

I agree and honestly, I think that during the busy festival times, RIV owners will understand and choose to stay put, because those other resorts close to the parks are not easy to trade to anyway.

Since it appears that summer offers the one of the biggest gaps, trying to change then might be popular. But it is a lower demand time so the odds for SV rooms goes up...as it does at most resorts.

We also know that there is a chance that those other resorts are going to most likely see some increase in studio costs again in fall...so It could close the gap a point or two..we shall see!

 

[keishashadow]

But the only solution is to stop building DVC properties... Most folks like new resorts so that's not likely to happen!

Not necessarily advocating them but there’s a few more ideas I’ve seen bandied about, including changing the 7 month window to shorter time period or even a tiered system

 

[kboo]

The idea is a lot more people bought into Riviera who aren't going to want to stay there long term. Point cost being one of the main factors. As a parent with young kids if I owned Riviera I would be looking to book a monorail resort at 7th month window.

I am a parent with young kids, and while it's true we bought at a monorail resort (2, actually) before looking at the EP/HS area, and I'm not looking to use my points elsewhere, at least for the time being.

The people that I am more concerned about are those who are buying there only because it is the resort that Disney is pushing, not fully considering how expensive the rooms are compared to others. With it being the one resort that Disney is pushing, you can't deny that there is a large portion of owners like this.

This sounds a little patronizing/paternalistic, no? We were actually deciding between adding more points at BLT, buying BCV/BWV or RIV direct. For @crvetter's reasons we felt that the price per point at BCV/BWV was not competitive with RIV. And since this was just after the 1/19/19 restriction, we decided it was worth a slight upcharge for access to all new resorts and having a home resort in the EP/HS area, with all the improvements that are coming there.

I wanted to add that we have interacted a bit here on the DIS, so I'm not trying to be purposely antagonistic, nor am I offended. But there are a number of DVC owners on the DIS who have made their own informed (or
"informed-enough-for-their-purposes") decisions whether or not to buy RIV. It was the right choice for me and my family, as it was for many others. But it might not be the right choice for other families, or it might be, for other reasons. Of course point costs and cost-per-point matter, but many other things going into the decision. I was all gung ho to buy BWV on the resale market until I learned that all the 2BR are lockoffs. That made it not such a great fit for my family's needs down the line, but it won't matter to a buyer who only cares about having a 1br for F&W.

I think that's a bit too much of a stretch. I'm not trying to make this complicated or trash the resort. Let me try breaking this down a bit more.

1. It is priced per night very similarly to GFV, a resort that does not have much trouble booking all of its rooms. This shows that there is at least some demand for "deluxe" DVC accommodations.

2. It is, however, twice the size of GFV in terms of how many rooms it has. It may be too big to accommodate all those deluxe type members on a consistent basis.

3. It is being sold as the 3rd cheapest resort per point overall, and the cheapest per year, and is being actively marketed to all members. This is sure to attract many "value" type purchasers who are looking to get more days for their money vs. a more premium experience.

4. Unlike GFV and PVB, it does not sit on the pricey Seven Seas Lagoon. If you want to stay there, you have no other options. With Riviera staying next to Caribbean Beach, and not walkable to any parks, it's biggest perk is access to the skyliner. Both BWV and BCV have the same access, and are walkable to two parks. They are also both significantly cheaper.

This combination of factors is very likely to drive people out of Riviera as soon as they can book elsewhere. This will especially happen at the Epcot area resorts, but will also happen elsewhere.
There will be some demand to book the Riviera studios, but not enough to fill all the rooms that have been abandoned in a timely manner.
This will then in turn make it harder to switch from other resorts at 7 months, as there will be more people added to the system with less people trading in to replace them.
This could have been avoided if DVC had set the price of Riviera rooms to a more moderate level that would appeal to more members.

1. I think it's also priced similarly to BLT LV, and RIV studios are less than POLY studios, but I don't hear to much complaining about how Poly buyers are going to crowd out other studios at 7mo once they see how expensive Poly studios are.

2. What about comparable in size or units to BLT or Poly?

3. See other posts - this is nothing new - DVC raises the prices of "sold out" resorts and times the "selling out" of those resorts to make current resort most "attractive" financially to anyone unaware of the resale market.

4. We just returned from a short stay at RIV. I think your comments on #4 reflect what you feel is important/not important in what you value in a DVC resort, but may not reflect what others think. For us, the Skyliner and the queen murphy beds are game changers. We still love the BW area and its evening entertainment, but don't mind or care that it's a Skyliner ride away - my kids love the skyliner and I could probably save $100+/day by just taking them on that instead of buying park tickets.

100% my thought but who knows, RIV owners may just become loyalists to their home resort.

I see RIV being like BLT and VGF in this way - you will almost certainly need home resort priority to have access to standard rooms, and (like VGF) probably tower studios and regular studios in any view category. During F&W and holiday season, you'll probably need home resort priority a lot as well. Studios (and as a result, 2br-LOs) are already hard to get at RIV at the start of F&W season.

We have a VGF/RIV split stay coming up this summer with a family that has never been to WDW. We picked VGF to start our split because for first-timers, being near MK still is something special. DH and I debated whether we should try to switch to BCV/BWV (using RIV points) for the second part of our stay, which will be during F&W and also MNSSHP. We decided to hold off until our first RIV stay to see how we liked it. We are pretty unanimous that we are not going to bother trying to switch (even if rooms were available). We'd be saving on average 4 points a night for BWV preferred view (we're not going to get standard at 7 mo unless we get crazy lucky with a waitlist), or 3.6 points per night compared to BCV. The beds alone make it worth 4 points a night more, to us. We will probably rent surrey bikes after dark and watch the performers on the BW, but that doesn't mean we wish we were staying there. While that point differential per night might matter to some, we see value to spending the extra points at RIV. My DH does want to stay at BCV again sometime, but it's not looking like that will happen until 2021 at the earliest.

 

[Ben E N]

This sounds a little patronizing/paternalistic, no? We were actually deciding between adding more points at BLT, buying BCV/BWV or RIV direct. For @crvetter's reasons we felt that the price per point at BCV/BWV was not competitive with RIV. And since this was just after the 1/19/19 restriction, we decided it was worth a slight upcharge for access to all new resorts and having a home resort in the EP/HS area, with all the improvements that are coming there.

This is the important piece where I mention that it is probably not the majority, just a significant enough minority, of people who will be surprised by the points there. There are many, many people who made a well informed decision to buy there and will be happy there for a long time. I am in no way criticizing their decision. The resort has a lot to offer for some people. I am thinking more of the people who are on a happy vacation, see the booth in the park advertising DVC, go on a tour, and finance a purchase at the resort being sold to them then and there. It has to happen, otherwise Disney wouldn't have that system in place. Some of those buyers will still be happy with Riviera, but others won't want to sell out due to the resale restrictions, but will also want to trade out to a cheaper points wise resort.

In response to the other comments about the Polynesian studios, there are two differences between there and Riv. One is almost all owners there are studio owners, and most of their studios are standard view. At Riviera some buyers may have purchased with the intention of only staying in Tower or standard view studios, only to not have those be available. This would lead them to trade out, while Polynesian buyers still have plenty of inventory left over.
Also, considering that Polynesian is 75% standard view studios and only 25% lake view, and Riviera is rumored to be the exact opposite, studios there would actually average to be cheaper.

Please do feel free to pick this apart as much as you, or others, can. I am not insisting that my viewpoints are "right" and appreciate the feedback that I am getting. I am not crying about how unfair things are as change comes, just predicting that change is happening, and trying to justify my views with the evidence I have available to me.

 

[Sandisw]

This is the important piece where I mention that it is probably not the majority, just a significant enough minority, of people who will be surprised by the points there. There are many, many people who made a well informed decision to buy there and will be happy there for a long time. I am in no way criticizing their decision. The resort has a lot to offer for some people. I am thinking more of the people who are on a happy vacation, see the booth in the park advertising DVC, go on a tour, and finance a purchase at the resort being sold to them then and there. It has to happen, otherwise Disney wouldn't have that system in place. Some of those buyers will still be happy with Riviera, but others won't want to sell out due to the resale restrictions, but will also want to trade out to a cheaper points wise resort.

In response to the other comments about the Polynesian studios, there are two differences between there and Riv. One is almost all owners there are studio owners, and most of their studios are standard view. At Riviera some buyers may have purchased with the intention of only staying in Tower or standard view studios, only to not have those be available. This would lead them to trade out, while Polynesian buyers still have plenty of inventory left over.
Also, considering that Polynesian is 75% standard view studios and only 25% lake view, and Riviera is rumored to be the exact opposite, studios there would actually average to be cheaper.

Please do feel free to pick this apart as much as you, or others, can. I am not insisting that my viewpoints are "right" and appreciate the feedback that I am getting. I am not crying about how unfair things are as change comes, just predicting that change is happening, and trying to justify my views with the evidence I have available to me.

Maybe it’s just that the initial posts appeared to imply the assertion that a lot of RIV owners...enough to place undo stress like never before..will find the place too points expensive.

In terms of Poly, when that was what DVC was selling, I am extremely confident that there were a lot of people who bought there with the intention to trade out regulate for 1 and 2 bedrooms elsewhere. I think that is the reason why it’s easy to get in there as a non owner,

Time will definitely tell, but so far, except for preferred views in studios during summer, RIV studios are booking and staying booked.

Once it is fully declared and sold out.l,which is likely 3 to 4 years away, I think then we will have a better idea of how owners are viewing those charts,

 

[Ben E N]

Maybe it’s just that the initial posts appeared to imply the assertion that a lot of RIV owners...enough to place undo stress like never before..will find the place too points expensive.

In terms of Poly, when that was what DVC was selling, I am extremely confident that there were a lot of people who bought there with the intention to trade out regulate for 1 and 2 bedrooms elsewhere. I think that is the reason why it’s easy to get in there as a non owner,

Time will definitely tell, but so far, except for preferred views in studios during summer, RIV studios are booking and staying booked.

Once it is fully declared and sold out.l,which is likely 3 to 4 years away, I think then we will have a better idea of how owners are viewing those charts,

Fair point. I apologize for coming on too strong on the front end then. I wrote a lot of those posts while sitting in the 3rd row of a van and was probably already crabby from that! Hopefully after clarification my initial statements make a bit more sense.
And agreed, we have no idea what will happen. The resale restrictions on both sides of Riviera will have a greater impact than anything. This was just something I contemplated and wanted to test out with the general community.