Restaurants being "dumbed down"

[Mrsjvb]

FWIW we don't do the DP as we always ended up with far too many credits left over at the end.. we tend to split CS meals and rarely do snacks.

that being said: would you think that EXCLUDING some dishes on the menus from being eligible on the DP make a difference?

almost like the surcharge/up charge for the Kobe at V&A.

restaurants have selections that only 55+ can order form.. or under 10.

have a separate insert that offers other dishes.. either for a surcharge on top of DDP or for purchase at normal menu price( for those of us who don;t do DP)

that way you could continue to offer 'nicer' options while still allowing the rank and file to utilize the plan

 

[PrincessTiffany]

I'm sorry, but I find this stance a bit ridiculous. I have eaten many, many meals at WDW pre and post DDP and Free Dining. The food was good then and it's good now. I can honestly say that I have never had a bad meal at WDW. Of course some places are better than others, but really, even that is subjective. All people and all tastes and pallets are different. But overall, the quality of food at WDW is fine, as it always has been.

As for the comments about the menus being "dumbed down," that always makes me laugh. Just last night I was helping a friend plans some meals for their upcoming trip. They wanted to try one of the Italian places and we were looking at the menu for Tutto Italia. There were at least 35 different food items on their menu, some of which I would say would be classified as gourmet foods, some were even hard to pronounce. I remember thinking that the menu didn't seem too "dumbed down."

 

[dizgirl86]

I can see how the DDP could have a negative impact on food quality, some really goods points have been made in this thread. I do agree that it has had an impact on how busy restaurants get, which can be a positive and a negative. For instance, I wish people would look into the menus more when they choose restaurants. I've read a lot of reviews on restaurants like Tusker House where people complain that the food was too "exotic" and they couldn't find anything to eat. Well, yeah, that's the point of the restaurant... it's African themed. But if you get enough negative reviews like that, it may prompt the restaurant to "dumb down" the menu a bit. Every food establishment shoots to have a full house, but if it's full of the wrong people you can have a problem.

That said, I also think this could simply have something to do with the economy. Not even Disney is impervious to a bad economy and simplifying food choices across the board allows them to buy in bulk and save money.

I still have hopes that the new restaurants coming in will have interesting menu options, but I guess we'll have to wait and see!

 

[BriarRosie]

I could not have said it any better. For those who believe that the dining plan restaurants continue to offer wonderful food and dining experiences, they should try the restaurants not on the plan and they should easily see the difference. We now eat at the Swan/Dolphin restaurants with a few signatures (not all because many of them have declined also) or we eat in our villa.

I don't think Disney dining will ever again be what it was in the 90s. It was a brilliant move by Disney to get those rooms filled but we now vacation more often in places where food is still great.

I agree with this, too. And I think Cafeen is probably right that the food vendors might be selling Disney different quality of food than what another vendor might have been selling them 10 years ago.

I noticed the difference comparing a filet mignon at Yachtsman with one at Shula's. They were both around $40, which to me, means the quality should be high. Unfortunately, Yachtsman's was not. Shula's was. I would be hard pressed recommend Yachtsman because of that. But in 1999/2000, I would not have hesitated to recommend Yachtsman.

I definitely noticed a decline in product, as well as the menus. Another reason the menus have changed might be the trans fat issue. I believe some items were removed because Disney was trying to get away from serving trans fats. If that's true, I'm not that upset about it.

But I definitely noticed the quality of food has changed. It's not to the point where I wouldn't have dinner at Kona Cafe, but I tend to stick with signature restaurants or the non-DDP restaurants. I find myself ordering a lot of appetizers from menus instead of entrees. Those tend to be a little more interesting to me than many of the entrees.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

FWIW we don't do the DP as we always ended up with far too many credits left over at the end.. we tend to split CS meals and rarely do snacks.

that being said: would you think that EXCLUDING some dishes on the menus from being eligible on the DP make a difference?

almost like the surcharge/up charge for the Kobe at V&A.

restaurants have selections that only 55+ can order form.. or under 10.

have a separate insert that offers other dishes.. either for a surcharge on top of DDP or for purchase at normal menu price( for those of us who don;t do DP)

that way you could continue to offer 'nicer' options while still allowing the rank and file to utilize the plan

I'm sorry that this will not work on several levels. Most having to do with "I'm Entitled" Guests.

If there is a separate menu for DDP people will "misunderstand" when they are asked, at the beginning of the meal if they are on DDP, and will end up with the regular menus.

Or if there are items marked on the menu as "Not Eligible For Dining Plan" people will still order this and then complain that they (a) did not understand the statement, or (b) say that they misunderstood their entitlements, or (c) they were being discriminated against.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

This is because it is a victim of the Basic Disney Dining Plan!

Unfortunately, many people on the DDP, whether they pay for it directly or paying a higher rate for their room and getting "free" dining, look to the highest price items on the menu. This is based either on the attitude of "I paid for it and can get whatever I want" or "as long as it's free, let's get the best items".

For example, at The Wave there is a $16.00 difference in price between the lowest price adult lunch entree and the highest price dinner entree. Each restaurant receives a fixed dollar amount credit for each meal sold under DDP. Each restaurant has to make a profit.

As food costs go up it takes more money to operate a restaurant.

So as things progress more and more of the higher end cost items will vanish.

The signature restaurants do not have so much of a problem as they get paid double the regular restaurants.

If they ever do away with the Basic DDP within about six months you will find a lot more high end selections at all the restaurants.

Where exactly do you get this info? We have done the Basic DDP and free dining many times and I never go in thinking I've got to get the most expensive item on the menu. I don't really look at the price (beauty of the DDP) and order the item that I think will taste the best and that I will enjoy eating.

It's so ridiculous to read some of these statements. There seems to be an undertone of nastiness of people who think they are too good to eat at 1 credit meals because they are now subpar due to the fact that the ignorant minions on free dining eat at those establishments and have destroyed those restaurants and their menus - you know the ones, the people who are stupid enough to think they are getting something for "free."

I think i'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, it's really starting to rub me the wrong way.

 

[BabsBunny]

A sarcastic look at main entrees at a couple of random DDP plan restaurants.

Captain Jack's

Jumbo Lump Crab Cakes - with cajun mustard aioli, green asparagus tips, and roasted garlic red skin potatoes $23.99
(Okay, crab cakes and red skin potatoes. Something a little different, but not really for a seafood restaurant.)

Today's Chef Recommendation - Ask your server about today's selection - market price
(Your fish dish.)

Roast Chicken Breast - with creamed mushroom sauce, mashed potatoes and seasonal vegetables $17.99
(Your chicken dish--with creamed mushroom soup--I mean sauce and mashed poatoes. Sounds like a Hungry Man frozen entree.)

Penne Pasta Alfredo with Blue Crab Meat $19.99 with Grilled Chicken Breast $18.99; with Salmon Fillet $19.99; with Shrimp $18.99
(Hey! Pasta with alfredo sauce. How Olive Garden!)

Baked Salmon Fillet - with citrus-caper butter sauce,sbuttered steamed potatoes and seasonall vegetables $19.99
(Another fish dish.)

Caesar Salad with Blue Crab Meat $15.99 with Grilled Chicken Breast $12.99; with Salmon Fillet $16.49; with Shrimp $14.49
(A Caesar salad because you can't get enough of those at home.)

Shrimp and Penne Pasta - in a creamy Lobster Sauce $18.99
(Another Alfredo sauce over pasta. Maybe this one has a little lobster juice in it.)

Penne Pasta Alfredo - $13.99
(Alfredo sauce with different noodles.)


Chef's de France

Plat Vegetariens (Vegetarian Entrees)
Lasagnes de legumes du soleil a l'huile d'olive au thym - zucchini, eggplant, bell peppers, onions and tomato baked into thin layers of pasta $19.95
(Veggie lasagna. Okay, but it's a French restaurant.)

Gratin de macaroni - Baked macaroni with cream and gruyere cheese $18.95
(Mac and cheese. Put gruyere in it and maybe it sounds a little more French.)

Poissons (Fish and Seafood)
Brochette de fruits de mer aux herbes - sauteed scallops, mahi mahi, and black tiger shrimp served with Mediterranean herb coulis, grilled tomato and black pearl rice $30.95
(Seafood with a Mediterranean sauce over rice.)

Filet de Saumon, ratatouille sauce Choron - Broiled salmon, tomato Bearnaise,ratatouille made with onions, zucchini, eggplant and bell peppers $27.95
(The fish dish.)

Viandes (Meat and Poultry)
Plat de Cote de Boeuf au Cabarnet avec pates - Beef short ribs braised in Cabernet with pasta, pearl onions and mushrooms $28.95
(Short ribs with pasta. I wonder if they got the recipe from House of Blues.)

Demi poulet fermier roti, pommes rissolees et tomate grillee Half of an all-natural roasted chicken, rissole potatoes and grilled tomato $25.95
(A roasted chicken just like they make in the grocery store!)

Canard au miel, haricots vert et pommes de terre douce - Roasted breast of duck and leg confit, french green beans and sweet potato, spicy honey sauce $31.95
(Okay, this one gets a thumbs up. lol.)

Filet de boeuf grille, sauce au poivre noir Gratin Dauphinois et haricots verts - Grilled tenderloin of beef with a black pepper sauce original potato gratin of Savoy and green beans $34.95
(And your requisite steak dish.)

 

[BabsBunny]

I'm going to give Pollo Campero take out a try for our next trip. Two of these family dinners, and I'll be feeding six for $40. Plus, I can buy a $10 bottle of wine at the grocery store, and save $30 on the bar bill! )

Build Your Feast
Includes choice of family entrée, family side, and warm corn tortillas. Feeds 3 - 4 people $16.99

Signature Fried Chicken - 8 pieces

12 Chicken Strips

Whole Citres Grilled Chicken - 4 quarters

Add an additional family side $4.49

Add an additional family entree $12.49

Sides
Individual a la carte $2.49
Family a la carte [feeds 2 - 3] $4.49

Black Beans & White Rice

Campero Rice

Sweet Plaintains

Yuca Fries

French Fries

Campero Beans

Coleslaw - available at the Grab n Go

Chips and Fresh Salsa

 

[Cafeen]

Where exactly do you get this info? We have done the Basic DDP and free dining many times and I never go in thinking I've got to get the most expensive item on the menu. I don't really look at the price (beauty of the DDP) and order the item that I think will taste the best and that I will enjoy eating.

It's so ridiculous to read some of these statements. There seems to be an undertone of nastiness of people who think they are too good to eat at 1 credit meals because they are now subpar due to the fact that the ignorant minions on free dining eat at those establishments and have destroyed those restaurants and their menus - you know the ones, the people who are stupid enough to think they are getting something for "free."

I think i'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, it's really starting to rub me the wrong way.

There are many people who say that they have to get the most expensive items in order to come out ahead. It's mathematically proven to be a fallacy, but you do have to order an average of items from the upper half to third of the menu (pricewise) or run the risk of losing money. Many people also don't recognize the fact that if you're saving $50 and eating what you want that you're better off than saving $100 and having to order above what you want. It leads to that situation.

It's also a very common hyperbolic statement used by the "anti" DDP crowd (and by anti I mean actually against it, not just those for whom it does not work) and is rhetorical in nature to sway opinion to their "side" of things.

While I do get where they're coming from (and sometimes they get where I come from), it gets tiring .

The taste stuff and the "horrible" meals are all subjective (and probably somewhat hyperbole, especially those who call all 1 credit meals "inedible", which we have seen).

I would agree to some extent that DDP is part of it, and does take some of the responsibility. I'm doubtful that much of it wouldn't have happened without the plan though. Of course, we'll never know either way .

 

[goofy4tink]

I'm sorry, but I find this stance a bit ridiculous. I have eaten many, many meals at WDW pre and post DDP and Free Dining. The food was good then and it's good now. I can honestly say that I have never had a bad meal at WDW. Of course some places are better than others, but really, even that is subjective. All people and all tastes and pallets are different. But overall, the quality of food at WDW is fine, as it always has been.

As for the comments about the menus being "dumbed down," that always makes me laugh. Just last night I was helping a friend plans some meals for their upcoming trip. They wanted to try one of the Italian places and we were looking at the menu for Tutto Italia. There were at least 35 different food items on their menu, some of which I would say would be classified as gourmet foods, some were even hard to pronounce. I remember thinking that the menu didn't seem too "dumbed down."

Just because you charge a huge amount of money for something that is hard to pronounce doesn't make it good. I used to eat at Alfredo's all the time. I liked what they offered. Well, they got sold..and along came Tutto....ate there twice, and I'm done. The food was fine, but way overpriced. For what two of us pay for dinner there, about 4 of us could eat at a similar place offsite.
The food offerings have most certainly changed over the years. The quality has gone down hill and the prices have gone up. I realize it is subjective....I am basing my comments on my particular experiences. We tend to eat in the same places at WDW. After 30+ stays in WDW, I can safely say that the food I get now is not even close to what I got 10 years ago...not even 5 or 6 years ago.
Some may feel the food quality is just fine. Terrific. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But for me, the quality is not the same.

Where exactly do you get this info? We have done the Basic DDP and free dining many times and I never go in thinking I've got to get the most expensive item on the menu. I don't really look at the price (beauty of the DDP) and order the item that I think will taste the best and that I will enjoy eating.

It's so ridiculous to read some of these statements. There seems to be an undertone of nastiness of people who think they are too good to eat at 1 credit meals because they are now subpar due to the fact that the ignorant minions on free dining eat at those establishments and have destroyed those restaurants and their menus - you know the ones, the people who are stupid enough to think they are getting something for "free."

I think i'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, it's really starting to rub me the wrong way.

It's basically experience speaking. Case in point....I have eaten at Coral Reef many times. The absolute worst dining experience there was during that first week of August free dining two years ago. OMG!! I have never seen so many families with very young kids there. There were children running around screaming. Parents were sitting there, paying no attention. I can't tell you how many times I overheard some variation of this comment...'I am so glad we got free dining..I've been dying to try the food here. But it's too expensive without free dining.'


Stupid for believing you are getting the food free during free dining??? Absolulely not stupid. I have used free dining myself. But, here's the thing...how many people do we see, right here on the boards, saying that they can't afford to go to WDW without free dining??? Many, many people. The ddp isn't a great deal for everyone. Every time I go to WDW I sit and figure the best way to pay for my dining. I have the TiW card, so that's something to consider. I seldom come out ahead with the dining plan. This trip in Oct is with another couple so eating is a big deal. We are doing a ton of signature dining...so need the deluxe dining plan...didn't think I would ever do that one!!!

I know how people feel about some of the 1 TS places. I used to love Chef Mickey's...ate there every single time..usually our first meal of the trip. Not anymore. The buffet offerings have changed significantly. Many fewer things to choose from. Same with a lot of the buffets...but they can get away with it because there are characters.

It's all about choices.

 

[Anthony1971]

I think another piece of the puzzle is Magic Express.
the First year of ME you could buy beer (coors light) in a resort store for 6.50 for a six pack-- the next year it was 12.?? now and a few years ago it is 5 or six dollars for each beer period. This has been the case with all food at Disney.
Now they get you there for free sell you a DP that if you do not order the most expensive thing on the menu for dinner and stuff yourself with pre packaged cake for lunch you lost money... I am not talking about FD but years ago you would get a great room discount and easily make up for the FD.

I have been going since 1990 and the menus have changed a lot. It is more like this if you wanted lobster you can go here if you wanted Filet Mignon you could go here if you wanted???? now every resort TS has the same 3-4 things on the menu just made a little different.... Now if you want something different or what is Fine dinning you need to go to a signiture which was not the case in the past...some EPCOT TS have better offerings but those are slowly changing as well.
In the end Buisness is for profit and this is a good way to make $$$$
I have no ill feelings toward either I just adjusted where I eat to accomadate what and how I like to eat which can still be found at Disney mostley in DTD, some at EPCOT, signiture and a few resort options.... you just need to know where to look and yes the DP DDP or any other does not work for me.... It did when it was 30 a person with tips and 3 courses that was a great deal and if still was that price I would buy it and deal with the new menus.

 

[Cafeen]

Selection Platter - maine lobster tail, oysters, clams, jumbo shrimp, day's ceviche, tuna cruda, dipping sauces $49
Typical mixed seafood dish

Chilled Maine Lobster Tail - citrus, fennel, samphire $21
Standard lobster tail

Chilled Poached Jumbo Shrimp - avocado puree, bloody mary sauce, fennel salt $15
blue Raw Bar
Shrimp Cocktail

Middleneck Clams - per piece $1.50
Standard Clams

Daily Harvest Oysters - per piece $2.75
And Oysters...
Simply Fish

Our daily selection of finest fresh fish selected from coastal waters around the world, simply grilled on our teppanyaki grill, served with your selection of sauce below $33

Selection of sauces
Red curry coconut
Cucumber vinaigrette
Warm crabmeat, dijon mustard, chives

Add lobster $5
Wheel of Fish! (kudos for the reference )

Parisian Pouissin - Palmetto Farms young chicken, leek macaire potato, organic vegetables, chicken jus $25
Your required chicken...

Chef Pasta - featured pasta of the day using fresh seasonal ingredients. Market Price
...and pasta dishes

Miso Glazed Black Cod - warm sesame spinach, pea tendril salad $35
Another fish

This Evening's Dancing Fish - smoked paprika rub, fingerling chorizo hash, green olive, orange, saffron. Market Price
Fish of the day (blue plate special)

Beef Tenderloin - celery root, asparagus, seasonal mushrooms, warm salsify gel, veal jus $42
Here's the beef

Wreckfish - parsley root puree, seasonal succotash, meyer lemon vinaigrette $36

Basque Style Tuna - espellette polenta, braised fennel, spinach, Nicoise olives, idiazabal $34

Dirty South Swordfish - barbecue rubbed, house smoked tasso risotto, rock shrimp, littleneck clam $32
More random fish dishes

Pasture Prime Pig - Florida-raised, mangalitsa pork, German potatoes, apple mustard glaze $32
And the other white meat.

Two-pound Maine "Cantonese Lobster" - fried and tossed in sticky soy glaze $60
Another typical lobster dish...

Chef's Tasting - 5 course tasting menu created daily $79
And something nifty that changes.
Sommelier's wine pairing $30

See, I can overly simplify a menu too .

So, more dishes, but are they more unique? Looks like a bunch of different fish dishes (which can be assumed as it is a seafood place), but non-fish is very limited, pretty much down the standard chicken, pasta, and beef dishes. (Plus the pork).

(Now, there's probably some to be said about the ingredient quality here, but that's not what the other menus were being posted about).

 

[photobob]

I don't think there is any question that the Dining Plan is the cause of the dumbing down of menus through out WDW. It has also caused those of us paying OOP to pay more for often at best average food. It is not that I mind paying $25 for an entree, the fact that it is often no better than an Applebees $7.95 entree does bother me!

 

[TDC Nala]

I don't think Shula's has a whole lot of options besides steak, either, so I can't find Bluezoo's menu representative of "lack of uniqueness"

 

[eliza61]

Where exactly do you get this info? We have done the Basic DDP and free dining many times and I never go in thinking I've got to get the most expensive item on the menu. I don't really look at the price (beauty of the DDP) and order the item that I think will taste the best and that I will enjoy eating.

It's so ridiculous to read some of these statements. There seems to be an undertone of nastiness of people who think they are too good to eat at 1 credit meals because they are now subpar due to the fact that the ignorant minions on free dining eat at those establishments and have destroyed those restaurants and their menus - you know the ones, the people who are stupid enough to think they are getting something for "free."

I think i'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, it's really starting to rub me the wrong way.

Sorry to see you go but you're the only one who's upset. We think the food is subpar. I'm happy you enjoy your meal, why would I want someone to have a bad meal. We happen to think otherwise. No one but you called anyone stupid. But imo the menus have been dumb down. they have been changed since a few years ago.

If you follow this forum you will find that many people do get on here and ask where they can find the most expensive meals. All the time people give advice on how to "get the most out of the dining credits". that's where we get it from.

I think you're right to unsubscribe. If you can't take dissenting opinions without getting upset, this may not be the thread for you.

Bon Appetit!

 

[BabsBunny]

See, I can overly simplify a menu too .

So, more dishes, but are they more unique? Looks like a bunch of different fish dishes (which can be assumed as it is a seafood place), but non-fish is very limited, pretty much down the standard chicken, pasta, and beef dishes. (Plus the pork).

(Now, there's probably some to be said about the ingredient quality here, but that's not what the other menus were being posted about).

But see the difference is that there is uniqueness to the way the chicken, seafood, beef, etc. is prepared. It doesn't sounds like you could make those sauces from cutting open a plastic bag. I would hope they aren't doing that with those prices. I would be very surprised to see a risotto dish on a 1 credit WDW restaurant where the chef actually stood there stirring rice from start to finish.

Fingerling chorizo hash? Braised fennel? Warm sesame spinach, pea tendril salad? Maybe at a signature restaurant.

Like I said before, the mediocre food isn't stopping me from returning to WDW. But I can complain and look back fondly on the old days. Basically, WDW is like some family members--sometimes they annoy the heck out of you and you talk behind their backs, but basically you still love them.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I think i'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, it's really starting to rub me the wrong way.

That's rich since your posts have been the most confrontational or condescending, IMO.

I'm getting tired of people dissing folks who actually know and appreciate food beyond a big mac or whopper. It's anyones choice what they like but the facts are the precipitous drop in dining quality coincided with the advent and expansion of the dining plans.

 

[Cafeen]

But see the difference is that there is uniqueness to the way the chicken, seafood, beef, etc. is prepared. It doesn't sounds like you could make those sauces from cutting open a plastic bag. I would hope they aren't doing that with those prices. I would be very surprised to see a risotto dish on a 1 credit WDW restaurant where the chef actually stood there stirring rice from start to finish.

Fingerling chorizo hash? Braised fennel? Warm sesame spinach, pea tendril salad? Maybe at a signature restaurant.

Like I said before, the mediocre food isn't stopping me from returning to WDW. But I can complain and look back fondly on the old days. Basically, WDW is like some family members--sometimes they annoy the heck out of you and you talk behind their backs, but basically you still love them.

Yeah yeah, I was committed to the joke too late to back out .

(And I didn't read most of the descriptions because I knew that if I did, I wouldn't be able to follow through with it!)

One thing I am curious about, and I mean this in all sincere honesty (as opposed to insincere honesty... gg me), when comparing Shula's to Shula's or any of the other nonDDP long standing restaurants to themselves, how does their quality compare to what it was when you guys enjoyed Disney food?

I'm asking this as Disney is nowhere near the only place where quality has slipped, offerings have been cut, and prices have risen. This is part of the basis for my theory on how DDP is another symptom and has less of an effect that others place on it. (I don't disagree that it has some effect). I also believe that some degree (maybe slight, I'll grant you that) of rose tinting may be in play too.

 

[TDC Nala]

Closing this now. It's not nice anymore.