Response to ADA Suit

[thankudrivethru]

This discussion stopped being strictly about only the plaintiffs of the lawsuit a long time ago; a lot of pages have gone by with general discussion of how the DAS isn't helping everybody who needs assistance.

And before anyone says, “You can just ask the CM’s for those accommodations,” I can assure you in no uncertain terms that on the occasions when I didn’t have the card that told them that they HAD to give them, more than half the time they wouldn't. (Heck, some of them refused even WITH it, but that was mainly at one attraction.) You can’t rely on the kindness of strangers.

How did they deny you? I don't get how they denied you if you had the DAS on you. I have never heard of that happening.

 

[aaarcher86]

There may be more people coming to the parks now than there have been in the past - but how many of those people are coming because of the reputation Disney created for itself? How many of them are people with disabilities who will come once and decide it isn't worth the effort to return?

I personally feel that guests who have not experienced the GAC in the past find the DAS a fine accommodation. I think the high cost and outrageous amounts of planning would be more of a deterrent than the DAS system.

 

[aaarcher86]

This discussion stopped being strictly about only the plaintiffs of the lawsuit a long time ago; a lot of pages have gone by with general discussion of how the DAS isn't helping everybody who needs assistance. The most important thing it provided for me is accommodation for visual disability: it made sure I got to sit where I could see, and got CM’s to slow belts for loading and unloading. At some attractions, it did get CM’s to allow me to enter through a safer entrance, but that was only needed at a few attractions and was rarely used. And before anyone says, “You can just ask the CM’s for those accommodations,” I can assure you in no uncertain terms that on the occasions when I didn’t have the card that told them that they HAD to give them, more than half the time they wouldn't. (Heck, some of them refused even WITH it, but that was mainly at one attraction.) You can’t rely on the kindness of strangers. I was remarking that most of the online discussion here and elsewhere centers around children with disabilities rather than including both children and adults.

That sounds more like it has to do with poor CM training, not the DAS system itself since you don't need one for vision issues.

 

[lanejudy]

Faster access? ? There is two lines, a FP line and a standby line, the standby line is for those that don't have a choice but to wait minutes upon minutes (or hours) with using a FP or just don't have one for various reasons. FP line is for FP holders and DAS users. I consider FP line fast access. You are getting fast access w\the DAS,ttintagel. You want light speed access? How would that be fair to those park guests who are in the standby line waiting for their turn?

I believe ttintagel was explaining that the previous GAC program did not always provide him/her with "faster access" -- which it often did. However, that depended on which GAC stamp. ttintagel had a GAC for vision disabilities, which did not necessarily provide access through the FP line.

 

[SMD]

There may be more people coming to the parks now than there have been in the past - but how many of those people are coming because of the reputation Disney created for itself? How many of them are people with disabilities who will come once and decide it isn't worth the effort to return?

I've never seen Disney advertise based on their reputation for customer service, disability accommodations or pixie dust. They aren't recognized and don't win an especially high number of customer service awards or accolades. And no business is required to live up to the high (or too high) expectations of individuals when it is no longer operationally feasible to do so. Heck, if Disney decided tomorrow to stop giving out free buttons, yes, many people would be disappointed, but who would say that they have a reputation for doing it, so are therefore obligated to keep doing in in perpetuity.

 

[lanejudy]

How did they deny you? I don't get how they denied you if you had the DAS on you. I have never heard of that happening.

From previous posts, I believe ttintagel's primary needs are vision-related. Therefore a DAS would not be issued. The guests must request vision-related accommodations at each attraction. When the DAS first rolled out, I did read several posts complaining that vision accommodations were being ignored when requested, though I haven't heard as much about that since last winter so hopefully CMs were retrained to better accommodate the needs of those with vision-related issues.

 

[AnAmericanInDisney]

I've never seen Disney advertise based on their reputation for customer service, disability accommodations or pixie dust. They aren't recognized and don't win an especially high number of customer service awards or accolades. And no business is required to live up to the high (or too high) expectations of individuals when it is no longer operationally feasible to do so. Heck, if Disney decided tomorrow to stop giving out free buttons, yes, many people would be disappointed, but who would say that they have a reputation for doing it, so are therefore obligated to keep doing in in perpetuity.

Ever heard of "The Disney Institute?" Disney used to sell their customer service model to other businesses and charge for speakers and consultants. I hope they don't do that anymore, because their customer service is not anything other industries should be copying at this point in time.

ETA: Oh looky, they're still doing it: http://disneyinstitute.com/?CMP=KNC....DI.SM.02.01&gclid=CLPlkoi7z78CFWho7Aod6CQAdw

 

[karice2]

Well that only works when everyone is reasonable. Having a sign language interpreter off to the side of a show is reasonable. But some people might complain that the movement is distracting them and therefore no signing should be allowed.

Infringing on other people in small ways would probably be reasonable.

I always love the interpreter. The disney ones are usually very animated.

 

[BillSears]

I've never seen Disney advertise based on their reputation for customer service, disability accommodations or pixie dust. They aren't recognized and don't win an especially high number of customer service awards or accolades. And no business is required to live up to the high (or too high) expectations of individuals when it is no longer operationally feasible to do so. Heck, if Disney decided tomorrow to stop giving out free buttons, yes, many people would be disappointed, but who would say that they have a reputation for doing it, so are therefore obligated to keep doing in in perpetuity.

Ever heard of "The Disney Institute?" Disney used to sell their customer service model to other businesses and charge for speakers and consultants. I hope they don't do that anymore, because their customer service is not anything other industries should be copying at this point in time.

ETA: Oh looky, they're still doing it: http://disneyinstitute.com/?CMP=KNC....DI.SM.02.01&gclid=CLPlkoi7z78CFWho7Aod6CQAdw

And of course there is the whole Be Our Guest ad campaigns that have been around for years. "The service here is never second best."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INfjQYjQeUY

 

[asc]

looks like some people are missing the issue raised that ones "disability" results in one missing the FP time. sure, those same people can miss the FP time for various reasons - and i guess this lends to abuse - but one poster clearly indicated that they quite legitimately could miss as a result of their disability.

all i was trying to suggest was a way that did not deprive this person of their entitlement to use FP+

all i was trying to suggest that when a person with such need go and explain their needs to guest services, one accommodation, other than a DAS, would be to advise them that they may be deprived of their entitlement to use FP+ if their ability" results in one missing the FP time.

as another notes, probably would not satisfy the plaintiffs in this situation.

 

[wilkeliza]

looks like some people are missing the issue raised that ones "disability" results in one missing the FP time. sure, those same people can miss the FP time for various reasons - and i guess this lends to abuse - but one poster clearly indicated that they quite legitimately could miss as a result of their disability.

all i was trying to suggest was a way that did not deprive this person of their entitlement to use FP+

all i was trying to suggest that when a person with such need go and explain their needs to guest services, one accommodation, other than a DAS, would be to advise them that they may be deprived of their entitlement to use FP+ if their ability" results in one missing the FP time.

as another notes, probably would not satisfy the plaintiffs in this situation.

Not missing the point that it is the disability that causes them to miss it but just saying that someone can miss their fp for a variety of reasons and if suddenly the accomidation is your FP never expires I bet you will see more people abusing it.

 

[CPT Tripss]

looks like some people are missing the issue raised that ones "disability" results in one missing the FP time. sure, those same people can miss the FP time for various reasons - and i guess this lends to abuse - but one poster clearly indicated that they quite legitimately could miss as a result of their disability.

all i was trying to suggest was a way that did not deprive this person of their entitlement to use FP+

all i was trying to suggest that when a person with such need go and explain their needs to guest services, one accommodation, other than a DAS, would be to advise them that they may be deprived of their entitlement to use FP+ if their ability" results in one missing the FP time.

as another notes, probably would not satisfy the plaintiffs in this situation.

Was that the poster with a sleep disorder? If so, I can't figure out how to reasonably accommodate someone who is not in the park at the time of the access window.

 

[charmed59]

Some folks miss their FP+ time because the standby line ballooned way past the time indicated when they entered the queue, due to many more folks in

 

[charmed59]

Sorry, iPhone got over eager to post.

Sometime people miss their FP+ time because they are stuck in the standby line on another attraction whose line hit a standstill because of an unusually large influx of folks in that FP line.

 

[kaytieeldr]

looks like some people are missing the issue raised that ones "disability" results in one missing the FP time. sure, those same people can miss the FP time for various reasons - and i guess this lends to abuse - but one poster clearly indicated that they quite legitimately could miss as a result of their disability.

all i was trying to suggest was a way that did not deprive this person of their entitlement to use FP+

all i was trying to suggest that when a person with such need go and explain their needs to guest services, one accommodation, other than a DAS, would be to advise them that they may be deprived of their entitlement to use FP+ if their ability" results in one missing the FP time.

as another notes, probably would not satisfy the plaintiffs in this situation.

But they're not deprived of the ability (not entitlement) to use FP+. Just like any guest who misses a FP+ return window for any reason, a guest with a DAS can reschedule the missed FastPass. No, they may not get the same attraction, but neither would a guest without a DAS.

 

[lizard1]

Not missing the point that it is the disability that causes them to miss it but just saying that someone can miss their fp for a variety of reasons and if suddenly the accomidation is your FP never expires I bet you will see more people abusing it.

I agree. If Disney went to a system where they let people with the DAS have FPs that didn't expire until the end of the day, it would end up being like the days when the regular FP didn't expire, where a lot of people saved them until the end of the day and used them then. Also, just because your FP expires, doesn't mean that you lose a FP. Most times you are able to reschedule that missed FP...it may not be for the ride you most prefer, but that doesn't change the fact that it can be rescheduled. While I understand that some people want that particular FP, that is where the DAS can come in and help- they are in essence able to get that FP back through the use of the DAS card. While the DAS doesn't help entirely with the looping issue, looping a ride isn't something that can be expected by any park guest, and therefore shouldn't be provided for when helping with EQUAL access. However, from my vantage point, with the use of DAS, FP, and a good touring plan, that can be accomplished to a small degree (assuming a person wants to loop an E-ticket ride, not any other ride that would be counted towards a 'regular' guest's average number of rides per day).

 

[thankudrivethru]

I believe ttintagel was explaining that the previous GAC program did not always provide him/her with "faster access" -- which it often did. However, that depended on which GAC stamp. ttintagel had a GAC for vision disabilities, which did not necessarily provide access through the FP line.

I took it as she was talking about the DAS.

From previous posts, I believe ttintagel's primary needs are vision-related. Therefore a DAS would not be issued. The guests must request vision-related accommodations at each attraction. When the DAS first rolled out, I did read several posts complaining that vision accommodations were being ignored when requested, though I haven't heard as much about that since last winter so hopefully CMs were retrained to better accommodate the needs of those with vision-related issues.

Maybe she needs to voice her accommodation needs in a different way to a CM

 

[Goofy14sure]

I said in my original post that faster access isn't the only concern of people with disabilities.

i think that is a problem with the DAS, it's answer to all non-mobility related disabilities is the use of the fast pass entrance, and for someone with vision problems, that may not really be the answer.

Which raises another question, how to write a policy that affects thousands of people a day when each individual has different and specialized needs

 

[aaarcher86]

i think that is a problem with the DAS, it's answer to all non-mobility related disabilities is the use of the fast pass entrance, and for someone with vision problems, that may not really be the answer. Which raises another question, how to write a policy that affects thousands of people a day when each individual has different and specialized needs

Well, the accommodation to vision issues is to let the CM at the attraction know and they should accommodate. The DAS isn't actually needed for something like that.

 

[jenineh]

I can see both sides of this but a family whose child does not have a disability may miss a FP due to need as well. Little ones need to nap and if pushed much longer will reach melt down mode. Family decides it is best to head back to resort even though they have a fp. They aren't sure when they will return because JR might be done for the day. Family chooses to change their FP to whatever is available later that day. Family 2's child suddenly becomes violently ill and has to be rushed back to resort. Family 2 has no clue when they will make it back to the park. FP is missed. The secnerios could go on but are similar a family misses their FP due to a need. Should they also get the ok to come back whenever and use that FP even though they aren't disabled? It was their need that prevented them from making it.

YES!!!! Exactly what you said. My last trip my son got sick. We missed a ton of our fast passes. Although it was disappointing it is what it is. We survived.