Response to ADA Suit

[aaarcher86]

Well they are already doing it at one park, so they should do it at the others. I hardly think the possible 5-10min a disabled person might be saving is worth quibbling about. If people are really that concerned about people in less-fortunate health situations than themselves getting such a minor advantage, then I really do think it's down to pettiness at that point. Especially since it's unlikely to be used for many cross-park rides which is where the most advantage would be. People usually tour one area at a time, especially those with low tolerance for the park environment.

I'd like to see a combo of at ride/kiosks implemented at both parks.

 

[aaarcher86]

Why do people complain that they have to approach a ride and leave if they able to get a return time elsewhere?

WDW you go to the ride. DL you go to a kiosk.

 

[aaarcher86]

Also I don't doubt that the previous poster was told the average non-disabled guest experiences 3.9 attractions per day, but tbh when I think about it that makes me really scratch my head. I can maybe see that at AK or DHS where there are fewer attractions, and many are shows with long run times. But I have a hard time believing that in regards to the magic kingdom because of its high number of short length attractions, many with reasonable waits for large parts of the day. I can't be the only one thinking that as an average is low. That means for every person following Josh's easywdw plans, there is more than one person not experiencing ANY attractions at all. am I the only one? I guess I'd be curious how that number breaks down by park.

I recall something similar being written when FP+ was implemented but it referred to the average number of FP used not overall rides. It's why they said they went with 3 FP+ reservations.

 

[asta]

Because trekking across the park to get a card signed is difficult for someone with a disablity? When the DAS info was initially released, my first thought was that the new system would increase walking time for the people who have the most difficult time walking.

Yes, there are ways to get around this somewhat with good use of FP+ and a good touring plan, but many people who go to Disney don't have the maps imprinted in their brains like I do.

DAS does nothing to address or help those who have a difficult time walking. Apparently if that is your concern WDW will just tell you that a wheelchair is the only help with your problem.

 

[asta]

Well they are already doing it at one park, so they should do it at the others. I hardly think the possible 5-10min a disabled person might be saving is worth quibbling about. If people are really that concerned about people in less-fortunate health situations than themselves getting such a minor advantage, then I really do think it's down to pettiness at that point. Especially since it's unlikely to be used for many cross-park rides which is where the most advantage would be. People usually tour one area at a time, especially those with low tolerance for the park environment.

The concern is not pettiness over a 5-10 time for a single person. The whole GAC situation became untenable because of the large number of people using the GAC to skip lines.

 

[AndreaA]

I'd like to see a combo of at ride/kiosks implemented at both parks.

Oh yes, I should have mentioned that I think getting DAS return times at the attractions is also allowed.

As to why people don't want to go to the attraction, get a time and then come back... Well, some people might have an autistic person with them who wouldn't understand why they aren't riding the ride while they are there. Other people may have their limited stamina sapped by having to do something like climb the big hill to BTMRR and then go back down (since there is no shade there and nothing to do) and then go back up again. I'm sure there are many more reasons.

Completely off-topic but I really HATE that WDW thinks that the answer to every mobility issue is for the person to get a wheelchair. So they have to pay extra money to tour the parks, even though they really don't need a wheelchair, they just need to not have to stand in a slow moving line. Before anyone says that there is more walking between the rides, I'd counter that WALKING is often much easier than standing still or barely moving. I could walk back and forth across the park with no difficulty, but standing in a line makes my back, neck, shoulders and hips very stiff. If I'm will to still wait for my fair turn, I don't see why I should just be told "Get an ECV". Do they really want MORE of those menaces in the parks?

I should add that I would not ever consider getting a DAS for my minor issues, I was just using them as an example of how even I find long lines difficult, so I can completely see how someone with more serious problems would find one very helpful.

The concern is not pettiness over a 5-10 time for a single person. The whole GAC situation became untenable because of the large number of people using the GAC to skip lines.

So you really think people would start to abuse the DAS in order to save 5-10 minutes maybe twice a day when traveling between distant lands???? They'd probably wait longer than that in Guest Services trying to get the darn thing!

 

[Wendydagny]

I recall something similar being written when FP+ was implemented but it referred to the average number of FP used not overall rides. It's why they said they went with 3 FP+ reservations.

That makes sense to me, completely. I wonder if the CM speaking to the PP was confused.

 

[Gracie09]

DAS does nothing to address or help those who have a difficult time walking. Apparently if that is your concern WDW will just tell you that a wheelchair is the only help with your problem.

wheelchair, ecv, rollantor (walker with a seat), cane with a seat, regular walker, stroller as a walker (dh found this was the best solution for him and they gave his stroller as a wheelchair pass so he used it in line), the ability to avoid stairs. I'm sure there are some options I missed.

They also don't provide hearing aides for those that need them. Or glasses. or noise cancelling headphones or any other personal device needed to counter a disability.

 

[Wendydagny]

DAS does nothing to address or help those who have a difficult time walking. Apparently if that is your concern WDW will just tell you that a wheelchair is the only help with your problem.

It's also fairly difficult to make extra trips across the park in a wheelchair. And many DAS users also use mobility devices.

 

[SteveMouse]

It's also fairly difficult to make extra trips across the park in a wheelchair. And many DAS users also use mobility devices.

And multiple trips across the park does just great things for battery conservation for ECVs and power wheelchairs.

 

[aaarcher86]

Why are people making back and forth treks across the park (WDW because I have no idea what the layout of DL is)? Splash and BTMRR are really the only solitary things I can think of. Going back and forth multiple times between lands is completely avoidable in most cases.

 

[TulipsNZ]

I completely understand the not wanting to walk around and around just to get passes, I'm just trying to think of ways to make things work. I also understand an autistic child not understanding arriving at a ride and then having to leave again. I just read earlier in the thread someone wrote they had to go to the ride to get the wait time & was thinking if there were a number of nominated points in the park that those with a DAS could get a wait time it would help.

I have stamina issues and am dreading the waiting and standing, I'm far better walking than standing but do not want to be in a wheelchair or ECV because I struggle standing in lines. I have got myself a cane chair for leaning on or sitting if I have time.

I think any solution that would enable access to wait times at many many points within the park without approaching a specific ride would be very staff intensive, each point would need to monitor wait times at rides as accurately as possible keeping in mind the number of potential DAS waits already given for that ride. I just think multiple ride activation points would be better than taking an autistic child to a ride and leaving.

I also think (and no idea how this would be logistically possible) that a number of rollators with chairs should be available for those with stamina issues at the head of each queue, these would belong to that ride queue and be returned to the head of the queue when that person reached the ride. yes this would require another person to return the rollators so yet more staff but it would I think greatly help the number of people who currently are having to get ECV's or a wheelchair when their only issue is standing long periods.
Still thinking out loud really but I wish things were easy for all people.

 

[Wendydagny]

Why are people making back and forth treks across the park (WDW because I have no idea what the layout of DL is)? Splash and BTMRR are really the only solitary things I can think of. Going back and forth multiple times between lands is completely avoidable in most cases.

I do agree with this, and splash is actually the ride I have in mind when I mention trekking. I do however find Epcot to be pretty much a series of solitary attractions as well.

 

[Goofy14sure]

DAS does nothing to address or help those who have a difficult time walking. Apparently if that is your concern WDW will just tell you that a wheelchair is the only help with your problem.

That's correct. Disney accommodated mobility challenged folks by making almost all of the lines accessible by wheelchairs and ECVs This cut down the number of people that needed DAS and helped with the usage problems related to GAC. As for the extra cost, wheelchairs and ECVs are considered medical equipment and Disney does not provide medical equipment or supplies

 

[Goofy14sure]

Why are people making back and forth treks across the park (WDW because I have no idea what the layout of DL is)? Splash and BTMRR are really the only solitary things I can think of. Going back and forth multiple times between lands is completely avoidable in most cases.

I was thinking the same thing. Multiple park crossing would be hard on anyone, even the healthy folk

 

[Goofy14sure]

Double post, sorry

 

[aaarcher86]

I do agree with this, and splash is actually the ride I have in mind when I mention trekking. I do however find Epcot to be pretty much a series of solitary attractions as well.

That's true. I just think with 3 FP+ it still wouldn't require a ton of back and forth walking - at least no more than it was grabbing legacy FP for rides.

On a side note, we don't ride much at Epcot so it's entirely possible I'm not familiar with the vast expanse of some of the rides.

 

[Coonhound]

The point was it would be nice is Disney had accommodations that they claim to have for those whose disability limits the duration of their visit. People (adults) with cancer, adults who are dying or have life limiting conditions, children who have needed a MAW trip. These are just some of the examples of people who may not be able to spend as much time in the park as everyone else. It would be nice to see an accommodation made where these people at least get to ride the average of four rides per day however they need to do that. Isn't that what Disney says they will do in the above link- find some way of helping these guests? So far my experience has not been help but told to book FP I cannot use and take them away from others so other people miss out on the FP and I still only get one or two rides a day.

In a dream world I would like nothing more than to see an accommodation to allow someone to do the same amount of rides in a smaller space of time of needed. Sure, I was suggesting that it would have to be a system that superseded FP, but not suggesting that system itself, as it would have to be something that would still be fair and not excess and certainly not abusable by anyone who would not desperately need such an accommodation.

I get what you're saying but disney doesn't need to try to make sure one gets to ride the same number of rides per day that the average person rides.
First, how do you decide who is an average guest, and how many rides they should have been able to do based on whose opinion?
Second, people don't always so full days in the parks for various reasons. Some of which have to do with disabilities and some don't. Elderly, pregnant, families with small children who need breaks, people who don't like to be out during the hottest part of the day, people who aren't disabled but tire easily so went back to the hotel early, people who don't go on too many rides because they tend to get motion sickness, people who have to leave because their flight home leaves early, people who didn't get to do anything at all in the park that day because a member of their party suddenly got sick so they had to leave for the day this wasting their ticket?
Do we need to make sure everyone experiences a certain ideal number of rides during the time they have available in the parks?
People tour the parks in various ways, for various reasons, and what they choose to do with the time they have available to them is their own decision.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

I know I shouldn't feel bad, but I do. I just don't think my enjoyment should come with such a wastage of resources.

I use the term loosely and reference the open letter from Meg Crofton http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2013/10/guest-assistance-card-program-update-for-walt-disney-world-resort-disneyland-resort/

"...and we will continue to work individually with our Guests with disabilities to provide assistance that is responsive to their unique circumstances."

and also here http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

"What will Disney Parks do if a Guest is concerned the DAS Card doesn’t meet their needs?
Disney Parks have long recognized and accommodated guests with varying needs and will continue to work individually with guests with disabilities to provide assistance that is responsive to their unique circumstances. Guests should visit Guest Relations to discuss their individual needs."

and finally here https://wdpromedia.disney.go.com/media/wdpro-assets/dlr/help/guest-services/guests-with-disabilities/Disney-Parks-Disability-Access-Service-Card-2014-04-10.pdf

"Special Accommodations for Specific Circumstances
The DAS card, with its virtual wait, will accommodate many of our Guests with disabilities. We
recognize, however, that our Guests with disabilities have varying needs, and we will continue to
work individually with our Guests to provide assistance.
In unique situations, our Guest Relations staff will discuss special accommodations for persons who
are concerned the DAS Card doesn't meet their needs (e.g., for those whose disability limits the
duration of their visit to the park or limits their choice of attractions)"

When I was there in chageover day I was told not to cancel my May holiday as teething problems would be sorted out by then and I would be able to have some form of help as the CMs recognised that the DAS was not really suitable but all they were allowed to offer at the time. We did. We spend tens of thousands of dollars to go again and when we arrived with printouts of these statements and the assistance I receive at another park (which realises their DAS like program does not work and came up with a suitable alternative). I had to go to Guest Relations every day at every park (when I gave up on day 4 once I realised I was being given the run around and that no-one in the parks had the authority to do anything. I would have to wait until I returned to go much higher.

When I am told what I was told last October and see what exactly Disney claims they will do then I do not think I expect and greater 'personalised accommodations' than they state they wish to offer. They offered nothing but rudeness actually and acted like giving me the DAS was their generosity and I should be grateful of help that isn't helpful.

Again, I tend not to post over here and only wanted to highlight the negative impact to FP I am told to be because they do not wish to stick to the claims that they make publicly regarding people who have a need that is not covered by the DAS.

Please don't confuse what I am saying and the point I am making with the people who clearly want more than their fair share to the point of legal action. That would just be too cruel

Not meant as a judgement or to discredit your experience, just to anecdote the other side of the coin. My most recent trip was during the change, had a little under a week of gac policy and 3.5 weeks of new policy. Obviously with its infancy, newness and learning-as-we-go that can come with it. And was worked with amazingly and indeed personalised.

Knew base info going into the change and am used to needing to be flexible where possible and a good dose of realism always working wonders. Did not go in expecting else, let alone ask, fish or hint. Just wanted some details I hadnt gotten clear otherwise and needed to switch systems. CM very quickly got a very good picture of my situation esp. given how difficult it can be to understand even for medical professionals. Almost fell out of my chair when cm voiced her conclusions regarding my needs and what could or couldnt be helpfull. Within no time put in order.

Magical fotl? Heck no obviously!!! Even just my, back than, max 30 minutes of window is too limiting for that and imho nothing ever warrents direct access (great part of wish trips which I hope stays, but dont view it as option aside that) and that is the easiest and least important factors we looked at and into. Days without experiencing anything? Heck yes. But I had much better experience ratio from both medical and enjoyment standview than ever with the gac. Also perhaps with more... making sure, who's to say? My entering park, visit GR and directly exiting again was noticed and remarked upon. Also gets some weird looks from security during first days of a visit by entering and exiting like lightning but they soon nough get used to it, even remembering name, some needs that stood. After that always the nicest folks and even trying to help out.

At the moment working on a first trio fully bedridden. Difficulty getting it done trying to avoid flying and living on the other side of the Atlantic but beyond that little practicality Im again positively impressed how they can offer me options, access and true enjoyment. At the same time I know not all view it the way I have done last year or do now, when looking at some same or alike challenges and accomodations offered/not offered. I know some even find they are being "banished" through the system in place. So many people so many opinions apparently.

Very long story but core comes down to message that I know from first hand experience there is some room for some individualisation other than "das fits all". Its not for me to know or say another can or cannot expect nor what that can look (very sad, but indeed there is a subgroup that does fish for i-want-x-what-do-ineed-to-get-it that is so blatently its obviously not someone just having issues properly expressing themselves) like but did want to get my experience out.

 

[Coonhound]

DAS does nothing to address or help those who have a difficult time walking. Apparently if that is your concern WDW will just tell you that a wheelchair is the only help with your problem.

This is true, disneys answer is to bring or rent a mobility device if you have mobility issues.
They do not want to issue a DAS because there is another option. Perhaps not what would be the preferable option, but it is an acceptable option.
They have already given equal access by making the lines accessible.
Also, it is not disneys responsibility to provide equipment. They don't provide noise canceling headphones, iPads, suctioning gear, adult diapers, cooling vests, the list could go on and on.
People say "I don't have mobility issues in everyday life, so I don't want a scooter!" But it IS possible to have mobility issues at Disney that you DON'T have in everyday life. Which is why you need a mobility device at Disney that you DONT need in everyday life.