Resort fee coming?

[Delirium]

What does that have to do about resorts offering free transfers to and from the airport?

Do you seriously believe that everyone that stays at a Disney resort uses Magical Express from the airport?

 

[Hootch]

How many resorts around the world offer free transfers to and from the Airport?

Disney does benefit from providing that shuttle service. Fewer people will rent cars and have limited access to attractions outside of WDW.

Prior to Universal opening up the the Diagon Alley addition, I received a survey on tickets for use on the Hogwart's Express. My inference was that Universal was looking to have longer or specific tickets for access to the train. The path that Universal has taken on ticketing indicates the feedback from that survey was highly negative. We'll see if Disney reacts the same way.

 

[JimmyV]

Totally disagree. A resort fee is nothing more than an extra charge in an attempt to mask a price increase in the actual room rate. And, it does not matter if other resorts around the world are doing it. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Not really. When applied correctly, a resort fee is charged simultaneously with the elimination of other cash-based fees. So if a resort used to charge $19.99 for wireless internet, and $3 for a bottle of water, and $5 to use the gym, and $5 for a pool towel, and then institutes a resort fee while wiping out the fees of all of the above, then the resort fee is tethered to the cost of these items and not to the room rate. It is just a way to allow guests to enjoy a cashless stay without getting nickeled and dimed five times a day. You pay once and forget about it. But if the rumors are true about Disney's resort fee, they won't be doing that. They will be assessing a daily fee for things that are already free. But Disney's disingenuousness should not be an indictment on the entire resort industry.

 

[hookedonears]

Unfortunately, the changes Disney has been making lately show they no longer want to be different from everybody else. They are just fine with behaving like their competitors if it means they can squeeze a few more bucks out of their once-loyal customers.

If people are willing to pay it and occupancy rates remain high, they'll squeeze harder and harder. As soon as occupancies rates begin to drop, they'll take their foot off the gas. It's nothing more than supply and demand.

 

[JimmyV]

How many resorts around the world offer free transfers to and from the Airport?

Way too many to count. I've been picked up at the airport by shuttle buses; picked up by Town Cars; picked up by limos; and picked up by a motor launch to take us to our island resort. In the latter example, that was included in the "resort fee" which was rather hefty, but included things like sailboats, tennis, airport transfers and the like.

 

[hookedonears]

Disney does benefit from providing that shuttle service. Fewer people will rent cars and have limited access to attractions outside of WDW.

Prior to Universal opening up the the Diagon Alley addition, I received a survey on tickets for use on the Hogwart's Express. My inference was that Universal was looking to have longer or specific tickets for access to the train. The path that Universal has taken on ticketing indicates the feedback from that survey was highly negative. We'll see if Disney reacts the same way.

Sure it's a benefit, but it still cost. A lot.

 

[goofy4tink]

Resort fee? I find it hard to believe that Disney doesn't already have hidden costs built into their existing cost structure for accommodations. How gullible do they think we are?

Oh, they obviously think we're all pretty gullible!! When they take away the FP+ areas for fireworks shows? I highly doubt they are just going to leave those open to any one who wants to watch from there. More likely it could become a ticketed event...dessert party for instance. Adding 'for a charge early and late entry'? Well...we already have EMHs...so 'maybe' Disney feels that those who aren't staying in on-site resorts would pay for that perk? Or those on a very short trip? Add some snacks or a continental breakfast, and they can say it's a great deal.
As for the rumored resort fee? Yep, we've already been paying for DME...it's in our room rates. Does anyone here truly believe that Disney just ate the cost of DME? I doubt it...they've added it to our increasing room rates, and those who didn't use DME, still got to 'pay for it'! Same with MBs....that was on the survey too.....possibly charging for MBs.

I love Disney...I own DVC, have held an AP for over 10 yrs. I've made close to 50 trips there since '99. My dd is starting the DCP in the fall and wants to stay with Disney in some capacity. So, we get it....we own stock...we're a 'Disney family'. And we get that Disney is a business, and they can make whatever choices they want as far as addtl fees. But, the 'value' of staying on-site is getting less and less! I can stay at the S/D and pay a resort fee and parking...but I can find rates that are less than a moderate resort on-site. I can rent a car and stay in a larger, nicer condo off-site. I'll spend less in rental costs, food costs. Big deal...I can't get EMHs.

All these things that are rumored to start happening? They've already happened. They just weren't a different 'line item' on our resort bill! We have been payiing for them all along....the costs have just been hidden. So now? They could start charging for DME, MBs, parking, etc., but I doubt they will keep room rates the same, or drop them! I doubt we will see more frequent 'sales' for rooms at WDW. I'm already eating less and less on-site...I bring in my own food. I don't buy any gifts or such...the cost is too high, and the quality is too cheap, not to mention there is little uniqueness anymore. I think Disney is on a slippery slope...they are already alienating a lot of their long time supporters.

 

[Delirium]

If people are willing to pay it and occupancy rates remain high, they'll squeeze harder and harder. As soon as occupancies rates begin to drop, they'll take their foot off the gas. It's nothing more than supply and demand.

Or, if occupancy did drop in the future, an alternative business approach would be, if times get tough, to slash characters, performers, leave buildings vacant for years at a time, and charge for emh. But, I highly doubt we ever get to that point.

 

[Maggie'sMom]

If people are willing to pay it and occupancy rates remain high, they'll squeeze harder and harder. As soon as occupancies rates begin to drop, they'll take their foot off the gas. It's nothing more than supply and demand.

Yes, I understand the supply and demand. I'm just not happy with them reducing park offerings at the same time they are charging extra for everything. It's rubbing me the wrong way that they are taking away character greeting opportunities and cutting staff hours to the point where rides are having to operate at reduced capacity at the same time they are raising ticket prices and adding on ridiculously priced before and after hours events. I have a feeling they will find there isn't quite the demand they thought there might for a $69pp opportunity to ride 3 Fantasyland rides and eat a continental breakfast. But I could be surprised.

 

[Jhuff8181]

Oh, they obviously think we're all pretty gullible!! When they take away the FP+ areas for fireworks shows? I highly doubt they are just going to leave those open to any one who wants to watch from there. More likely it could become a ticketed event...dessert party for instance. Adding 'for a charge early and late entry'? Well...we already have EMHs...so 'maybe' Disney feels that those who aren't staying in on-site resorts would pay for that perk? Or those on a very short trip? Add some snacks or a continental breakfast, and they can say it's a great deal.
As for the rumored resort fee? Yep, we've already been paying for DME...it's in our room rates. Does anyone here truly believe that Disney just ate the cost of DME? I doubt it...they've added it to our increasing room rates, and those who didn't use DME, still got to 'pay for it'! Same with MBs....that was on the survey too.....possibly charging for MBs.

I love Disney...I own DVC, have held an AP for over 10 yrs. I've made close to 50 trips there since '99. My dd is starting the DCP in the fall and wants to stay with Disney in some capacity. So, we get it....we own stock...we're a 'Disney family'. And we get that Disney is a business, and they can make whatever choices they want as far as addtl fees. But, the 'value' of staying on-site is getting less and less! I can stay at the S/D and pay a resort fee and parking...but I can find rates that are less than a moderate resort on-site. I can rent a car and stay in a larger, nicer condo off-site. I'll spend less in rental costs, food costs. Big deal...I can't get EMHs.

All these things that are rumored to start happening? They've already happened. They just weren't a different 'line item' on our resort bill! We have been payiing for them all along....the costs have just been hidden. So now? They could start charging for DME, MBs, parking, etc., but I doubt they will keep room rates the same, or drop them! I doubt we will see more frequent 'sales' for rooms at WDW. I'm already eating less and less on-site...I bring in my own food. I don't buy any gifts or such...the cost is too high, and the quality is too cheap, not to mention there is little uniqueness anymore. I think Disney is on a slippery slope...they are already alienating a lot of their long time supporters.

Very well said!!

 

[Praying Colonel]

Unfortunately, the changes Disney has been making lately show they no longer want to be different from everybody else. They are just fine with behaving like their competitors if it means they can squeeze a few more bucks out of their once-loyal customers.

Exactly right, which fuels a lot of WDW veterans' consternation IMHO.

 

[snayak]

Not really. When applied correctly, a resort fee is charged simultaneously with the elimination of other cash-based fees. So if a resort used to charge $19.99 for wireless internet, and $3 for a bottle of water, and $5 to use the gym, and $5 for a pool towel, and then institutes a resort fee while wiping out the fees of all of the above, then the resort fee is tethered to the cost of these items and not to the room rate. It is just a way to allow guests to enjoy a cashless stay without getting nickeled and dimed five times a day. You pay once and forget about it. But if the rumors are true about Disney's resort fee, they won't be doing that. They will be assessing a daily fee for things that are already free. But Disney's disingenuousness should not be an indictment on the entire resort industry.

I completely agree that Disney potentially adding a resort fee for currently "free" amenities & services is a slap in the face (and, we should understand that the current rates already include the cost of these items)

But - I would much prefer the option to purchase services/amenities vs. a resort fee unless the resort fee were optional (and most are mandatory). I don't always need WiFi or water or gym usage, so please let me pick and choose (looking at you Swan and Dolphin @ $25/night).

 

[JimmyV]

Do you seriously believe that everyone that stays at a Disney resort uses Magical Express from the airport?

I think this misses the point of what a resort fee is. It would be virtually impossible for every guest to use every perk that is included in a resort fee. There are golfers who don't play tennis. And tennis players who do not sail boats. And people who use saunas who do not use the internet. And people who use the internet who do not make local phone calls. The resort fee is not intended to capture exactly what it is that each guest actually uses and spends. If that were the case, then the resort would do away with the fee and go back to an a la carte pricing system. Instead, they shoot for the middle and price out the resort fee in a way that hits what the average guest would spend. And if one wants to argue that they wouldn't use any of the amenities of said resort, then maybe that resort isn't the best place for that person to go. But studies show that guests would rather pay a daily fee and leave their wallet behind instead of paying $5 here and $10 there, and $3 here every day. Just like your cable bill. You probably get 200 channels on your TV for "one low price" and probably watch no more than 40 of them. The unused channels on your cable box and the shrimp that you don't eat at the "pay one price" buffet, and the ride at the Magic Kingdom that you don't go on, and the show at Animal Kingdom that you don't go to see are all the functional equivalent of the Magical Express ride that you don't take. No different.

 

[JimmyV]

looking at you Swan and Dolphin @ $25/night

Yeah. You used to be able to opt out of that. But no more. Still, I can't recall the last time I stayed there when I didn't want/need the internet. Also, does anyone know if Starwood/Tishman has to pay a fee to WDW to allow the Disney transportation to go to those resorts? I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. And if it is, then the resort fee could in some way be an offset of this charge.

 

[Delirium]

I think this misses the point of what a resort fee is. It would be virtually impossible for every guest to use every perk that is included in a resort fee. There are golfers who don't play tennis. And tennis players who do not sail boats. And people who use saunas who do not use the internet. And people who use the internet who do not make local phone calls. The resort fee is not intended to capture exactly what it is that each guest actually uses and spends. If that were the case, then the resort would do away with the fee and go back to an a la carte pricing system. Instead, they shoot for the middle and price out the resort fee in a way that hits what the average guest would spend. And if one wants to argue that they wouldn't use any of the amenities of said resort, then maybe that resort isn't the best place for that person to go. But studies show that guests would rather pay a daily fee and leave their wallet behind instead of paying $5 here and $10 there, and $3 here every day. Just like your cable bill. You probably get 200 channels on your TV for "one low price" and probably watch no more than 40 of them. The unused channels on your cable box and the shrimp that you don't eat at the "pay one price" buffet, and the ride at the Magic Kingdom that you don't go on, and the show at Animal Kingdom that you don't go to see are all the functional equivalent of the Magical Express ride that you don't take. No different.

All of those costs you listed are already built into the cost of the room itself. Does that average Disney visitor get $350 a night use out of the room? No. A resort fee is simply a way to double-charge a guest for something that is built into the existing price structure of the room itself.

 

[snayak]

Yeah. You used to be able to opt out of that. But no more. Still, I can't recall the last time I stayed there when I didn't want/need the internet. Also, does anyone know if Starwood/Tishman has to pay a fee to WDW to allow the Disney transportation to go to those resorts? I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. And if it is, then the resort fee could in some way be an offset of this charge.

Eh, I don't bother bringing my laptop and my phone/iPad have cell service, so I don't need it.

Officially, here is what the resort fee includes:

• The resort has a mandatory 25 USD per day Resort Service Package plus taxes.
  
• in-room High Speed Internet Access
  
• 2 bottles of water daily
• unlimited access to full-service health club
• unlimited domestic long distance (US mainland) and local calls
  
• tennis equipment and access to the lighted courts
  
• seasonal pool access and recreational activities

Realistically this means we pay $12.50 each for 2 bottles of water, since we don't use the health club, phone, tennis courts, or pools (too busy at the parks!). Again, this is just for our vacation style at WDW Swan, so it would be nice if we could opt out, especially since we generally stay on points but still have to pay $100+ out of pocket.

 

[JimmyV]

All of those costs you listed are already built into the cost of the room itself.

It all depends on chronology. I think that you are missing the temporal element of when the fees switch over to being included in the resort fee. Assume that Cactus Resort and Spa charged $400 per night for its room, and charged $20/hour for tennis court time, and $10 to use the sauna, and $3 for the bottle of water on the desk in the room. Then one day the resort decides to make a change. It decides to increase its room rate to $425 per night, and now includes an hour of tennis, the use of the sauna and a bottle of water. In that case, yes, you could say that the costs are "built in to the cost of the room." But instead of doing what it did, Cactus Resort and Spa could keep its rate at $400 and add a $25 per day resort fee which includes the tennis, sauna and water. In that case, it cannot be said that the $400 already includes those items. Instead, those items are now part of the resort fee. They were never free back before the change. They were cash-based. One can't argue that $400 is a lot to pay for a room and therefore all of those items should have been included from the get-go. They were always added on extras. So when the resort decides to make a change, either the room rate has to go up, or a resort fee has to be assessed. But things that were not free before are not suddenly going to become free.

Again, this example applies to the proper way that a resort fee is assessed. If Disney assesses one and does not fold into that fee things that people are currently paying for, then it would be abusing the concept of what a resort fee is.

 

[JimmyV]

Eh, I don't bother bringing my laptop and my phone/iPad have cell service, so I don't need it.

Officially, here is what the resort fee includes:

• The resort has a mandatory 25 USD per day Resort Service Package plus taxes.
  
• in-room High Speed Internet Access
  
• 2 bottles of water daily
• unlimited access to full-service health club
• unlimited domestic long distance (US mainland) and local calls
  
• tennis equipment and access to the lighted courts
  
• seasonal pool access and recreational activities

Realistically this means we pay $12.50 each for 2 bottles of water, since we don't use the health club, phone, tennis courts, or pools (too busy at the parks!). Again, this is just for our vacation style at WDW Swan, so it would be nice if we could opt out, especially since we generally stay on points but still have to pay $100+ out of pocket.

I get what you are saying, but in the end, it just boils down to whether or not you want to stay there knowing that you will be paying the resort fee. To be fair, (and in keeping with what I posted above), everything on that list used to be cash-based (other than the use of the pool. I can't ever recall being charged for that.) So when the S/D shifted to the resort fee system, it did fold in things that it used to charge for. The argument here isn't whether these are "built into the room cost" or not. They were not. The argument is whether it is a good value for you to pay the price for things that you don't think you will ever use.

 

[snayak]

I get what you are saying, but in the end, it just boils down to whether or not you want to stay there knowing that you will be paying the resort fee. To be fair, (and in keeping with what I posted above), everything on that list used to be cash-based (other than the use of the pool. I can't ever recall being charged for that.) So when the S/D shifted to the resort fee system, it did fold in things that it used to charge for. The argument here isn't whether these are "built into the room cost" or not. They were not. The argument is whether it is a good value for you to pay the price for things that you don't think you will ever use.

We are in total agreement. I was trying to make 2 points - (1) it's not cool for Disney to charge resort fees for items it is currently giving away for free or baking in to the room cost (DME, Magic Bands, etc) and (2) I hate mandatory resort fees. Optional fees to avoid death by 1000 cuts for services we want to use is OK - just give me the choice! And, to your point, I always look at the "out the door" price when comparing where to stay.

Check out this picture from TODAY with contradicting information from the Swan. Am I paying for in-room internet through the resort fee, or getting it for free by booking in-app? It is about $10 cheaper than the non-SPG pre-pay rate so I guess it is free internet.

 

[JimmyV]

We are in total agreement. I was trying to make 2 points - (1) it's not cool for Disney to charge resort fees for items it is currently giving away for free or baking in to the room cost (DME, Magic Bands, etc) and (2) I hate mandatory resort fees. Optional fees to avoid death by 1000 cuts for services we want to use is OK - just give me the choice! And, to your point, I always look at the "out the door" price when comparing where to stay.

Check out this picture from TODAY with contradicting information from the Swan. Am I paying for in-room internet through the resort fee, or getting it for free by booking in-app? It is about $10 cheaper than the non-SPG pre-pay rate so I guess it is free internet.

Yeah. The interplay between the internet included in the resort fee and the free internet offered to SPG Members is a tough one. Talk to them about that over the phone or at the front desk and see what they can do about it. Maybe they have some other perk that they can toss you like a drink coupon or extra SPG Points, or something.