Resale Versus Direct: whats missing

[clopez4]

Hello! My husband and I have been doing research for around 3 months on DVC. We know we want to go for it, just trying to weigh the options. We are deciding between copper creek and AKL. I understand the buy where you want to stay, dues, use year, etc. I have crunched the numbers and been diligent on following the podcasts for the DIS and DVC fan (amazing by the way).

The questions we have are resale versus direct. I am interested in resale with the cost savings and such. My husband is more on the direct side. I understand the "missing out on incidental benefits" thing of no annual passes or discounts or whatever they offer at the time for direct members. However, I just wonder what else they could change to discourage resale versus direct.

We have the visa, so I don't care much about the discounts or the AP because we would likely not use that. My concern is for the future. It makes me nervous that they could just say "resale people can no longer do 'x'". Or is it only from certain dates? are you grandfathered in? For example: not being able to stay at new resorts (we personally are fine with the OG14 ones), but are the "pre 2019" resale contracts grandfathered in?

For example: banking and borrowing: is that in the contract? or does/can this change for resale? booking outside your home resort: could this change to only home resorts for resale?

It just makes me nervous to buy a resale contract that Disney could just "up and change" the allowances/perks for.

I don't even know if this makes sense! Thanks for all of your help!

 

[igrsod]

I have 2 resale contracts and all the changes that they have made since then we have been grandfathered in.
So we can book at Riviera and all resorts going forward.
The potential benefits, (which are very few and one could even say negligible at this point), did not make financial sense to us no matter which way we did the math.
I have no regrets buying resale at all. Now for you buying resale, you will not have the ability to book at Riviera or newer resorts.
If you are ok with that, then I think resale is the better option for you. We have never felt the difference of being white card owners vs. blue card owners.
We really love our AKL contract. It's an amazing home resort.

 

[Sandisw]

In terms of home resort, they can not change the rules for just resale vs direct. Trading is based on a resort entering BVTC..the division that handles trades.

The only way home resort only can happen is if a resort is removed..which isn’t easy, but would apply to all points owners there.

I guess they could always dissolve BVTC.. have all owners restricted to home resort..direct and resale…and then add back to a new company. Given that the 2042 resorts will expire in 20 years, I do t see them doing that.

Bur, most believe that in 2042, they will bring back those resorts as new which as a current resale buyer, you will lose access. 20 years is a long time away, but be prepared for the number of resorts to shrink.

Banking and borrowing are guaranteed. But they can suspend them or limit them from time to time if need be. We are not guaranteed to be able to bank or borrow 100%.

So, they could decide to leave the borrowing to 50% if they want.

Home resort priority is only required to be one month. We currently get 4. That could change but don’t see them trying to limit resale buyers to a shorter window as it could be an uphill battle and may not even be possible.

Obviously direct gives you RIV and future resorts and as you mention, access to any other perks they decide to add.

We love RIV so having points at all is important to use and my adult kids who plan to visit Disney longer term want access to the new resorts down the road. Direct ensures this for us.

The resale vs direct price for AKV right now is not huge and could be worth the extra..CCV is a different story.

 

[MurphyL]

Hello! My husband and I have been doing research for around 3 months on DVC. We know we want to go for it, just trying to weigh the options. We are deciding between copper creek and AKL. I understand the buy where you want to stay, dues, use year, etc. I have crunched the numbers and been diligent on following the podcasts for the DIS and DVC fan (amazing by the way).

The questions we have are resale versus direct. I am interested in resale with the cost savings and such. My husband is more on the direct side. I understand the "missing out on incidental benefits" thing of no annual passes or discounts or whatever they offer at the time for direct members. However, I just wonder what else they could change to discourage resale versus direct.

We have the visa, so I don't care much about the discounts or the AP because we would likely not use that. My concern is for the future. It makes me nervous that they could just say "resale people can no longer do 'x'". Or is it only from certain dates? are you grandfathered in? For example: not being able to stay at new resorts (we personally are fine with the OG14 ones), but are the "pre 2019" resale contracts grandfathered in?

For example: banking and borrowing: is that in the contract? or does/can this change for resale? booking outside your home resort: could this change to only home resorts for resale?

It just makes me nervous to buy a resale contract that Disney could just "up and change" the allowances/perks for.

I don't even know if this makes sense! Thanks for all of your help!

I am an owner at Copper Creek and just closing on an Akl contract. The largest issue i have found with Copper Creek is that the competition for studios is very high. I would not buy CCV with the intention of booking a studio. if You can find a contract with a guaranteed week for a studio at CCV or plan on booking 1 bedrooms then I would buy at CCV

 

[havoc315]

In terms of home resort, they can not change the rules for just resale vs direct. Trading is based on a resort entering BVTC..the division that handles trades.

The only way home resort only can happen is if a resort is removed..which isn’t easy, but would apply to all points owners there.

I guess they could always dissolve BVTC.. have all owners restricted to home resort..direct and resale…and then add back to a new company. Given that the 2042 resorts will expire in 20 years, I do t see them doing that.

Bur, most believe that in 2042, they will bring back those resorts as new which as a current resale buyer, you will lose access. 20 years is a long time away, but be prepared for the number of resorts to shrink.

This is really the biggie. Right now, thinking short term, buying re-sale doesn’t seem so limited. Just can’t stay in Riviera. In a couple of years, it will be can’t stay in Riviera and Disneyland Tower.

Looking long term, in 20 years… half the resorts will be off limits to an OG 14 resale buyer. You won’t have any Epcot resorts you can use. You’ll be stuck to the older resorts.

The 2022 version of 2042– imagine you only had access to OKW, SSR, BWV, BRV, AKV. And off limits: RIV, BLT, POLY, GFV.

Would that be appealing? Maybe, maybe not.
If you’re only concerned with the next few years and don’t mind being restricted in later years, re-sale doesn’t seem bad. If you’re looking long term, re-sale will get less and less desirable over time as more resorts become off limits.

 

[fumanchu2488]

To me the biggest difference by far is the process for buying. When you buy direct (I own 100 points direct) the process is super easy and you have your points loaded in a day. No questions asked, no ROFR, no worry about what UY points are there or which are not, etc...

I have not bought resale, but with resale you will have a much longer process to buy and actually get the points loaded into your account. And that is assuming Disney doesn't take ROFR.

If you aren't in a rush to have your points (i.e. you don't plan on using them for a trip until late 2023) then I would probably go resale and save the money. If you want to use them for a trip in the next 12 - 15 months, you will probably need to cough up the extra money and go direct or you could just pay for a cash stay or rent points.

 

[Lunchbox66]

To kind of echo a couple above comments. We just bought RIV direct for our first contract. The #1 and probably sole reason we bought direct was due to the restriction on future resorts. We are both 32 and plan to have (God willing) have 40+ years of DVC vacations and don't want to be restricted to any new resorts which will be built in that time, as we like to explore different resorts.

Everyone's life situations are different so if you perhaps see less time in the future vacationing with DVC then I'd say resale is much more of a consideration, depending on how much you care about being able to access new DVC content. I've never seen a company get less restrictive once they start imposing these kinds of restrictions, but call me cynical.

 

[Floridian From Afar]

I don't own DVC, but like you I have been doing a lot of research. Unfortunately, no-one is going to be able to give you a concrete answer to your question. Some things change over time, some things stay the same. It's anyone's guess.
Here's my 2 cents. The purchase is not a good financial investment. It's a good investment in your health and well being, with the possibility of it being a good financial decision years down the road. There are much cheaper ways to vacation at WDW, so if money is a key deciding factor then DVC will cost you more money than other resorts just outside of the parks.
If you know you want DVC, and the constant fear of what you might miss out on in the future causes you constant anguish, buy direct. It'll cost more but you may feel better about the purchase.
Again, as of now the direct member benefits are negligible. That could change in the future, but it also could stay the same. Prices continue to rise so demand is likely high, even without the benefits.

 

[Vulnox]

Havoc nailed the biggest consideration this year and going forward buying resale. It doesn’t matter what people up to now have been grandfathered into because it doesn’t help you today. Buying resale you don’t lose out on any significant perks compared to direct aside from trading into Riviera and APs, whenever any of us see them again.

But things are going to change relatively quickly in the next ten years, and even more in 20 for the reasons Havoc mentioned. If you intend to hold a contract for 20 years, I would really consider direct.

 

[Brian Noble]

in 20 years…

I've been saying this a lot today, but...my track record at predicting what my vacation habits would be 5 years from now is poor. If history is any guide, there is no way I could tell you what I'd want to be doing 20 years from now. So, speaking personally, I would not pay an extra several thousand dollars for a DVC contract for something that isn't going to matter for 20 years, unless I knew that I wanted to stay both at RIV and somewhere else in the next few years, and that short-term ability was worth the difference in price.

 

[sndral]

This is really the biggie. Right now, thinking short term, buying re-sale doesn’t seem so limited. Just can’t stay in Riviera. In a couple of years, it will be can’t stay in Riviera and Disneyland Tower.

Looking long term, in 20 years… half the resorts will be off limits to an OG 14 resale buyer. You won’t have any Epcot resorts you can use. You’ll be stuck to the older resorts.

The 2022 version of 2042– imagine you only had access to OKW, SSR, BWV, BRV, AKV. And off limits: RIV, BLT, POLY, GFV.

Would that be appealing? Maybe, maybe not.
If you’re only concerned with the next few years and don’t mind being restricted in later years, re-sale doesn’t seem bad. If you’re looking long term, re-sale will get less and less desirable over time as more resorts become off limits.

I find your choice of which resorts will be off limits to be curious, in fact of the currently built DVC resorts Riv would be off limits & the 2042 resorts expired, perhaps to be resurrected as ‘new’ off limit resorts. Thus, non grandfathered resale DVC access to Epcot/DHS will be gone but proximity to MK & AK will not, still available would be : SSR, AKV, OKW-E, BLT, VGF, Poly, & CCV.
List of opening/end dates of WDW DVC resorts:
1991 OKW 2042/2057
1996 BWV 2042
2000 BRV 2042 (add on to WL)
2002 BC 2042 (add on to BC)
2004 SSR 2054
2007 AKV 2057 (conversion + add on to AKL)
2009 BLT 2060 (add on to CR)
2013 VGF 2064 (add on to GF)
2015 Poly 2066 (conversion of Poly)
2017 CCV 2068 (conversion + add on to WL)
2020 Riv 2070 (pull down of some CBR buildings)
The terms of VGF2 will be interesting & a hint of what’s to come - will they have new end dates & be separate booking categories like BRV/CCV or will they be like the tree house additions to SSR simply added to VGF1 and if like SSR will DVC impose resale restrictions on the VGF2 points & can they do so?
In the last 20 years DVC has opened on average 1 new WDW DVC every 2 years, but of those only 4 have been ‘new’ - OKW to BWV 5 years, BWV to SSR 8 years, SSR to Riv 16 years.
The next completely independent DVC resort is rumored to be Reflections & it’s on indefinite hold. The only WDW deluxe resort w/out a DVC components is the YC (but you can currently stay at BCV or BWV,)
Rumored expansions/conversions BLT2, Poly2. Rumored new sites Reflections site, front of Epcot, adjacent to DHS, land between GF & MK. I’d throw a Coronado Springs DVC conversion into the mix.
My crystal ball is broken ATM, but w/ today’s belt tightening at the WDW parks/hotels, I foresee more quick & cheap conversions ala VGF2 & even so they’ve run out of deluxe resorts to convert. I suspect expensive new builds on ‘new’ land will be few & far apart given the 16 years between SSR & Riviera.
Of my 3 resale contracts the newest & smallest is barred from Riviera, the rest are grandfathered in, so I wasn’t too concerned about the resale restrictions on it - plus if I decided to sell that contract I’d realize around a 50% gain over my purchase price, so I suppose if DVC built a resort I wanted as a home resort (Riviera doesn’t appeal to me) I could just sell it & pay a few thousand extra to buy direct points at that new place. If I only had that restricted 3rd contract I could still rent out those points & use the proceeds + a little cash to rent points from a Riviera owner.
I haven’t ruled out a VGF2 direct add on, not because I care about restricted/unrestricted points at present & certainly not because I like the studio only thing (I don’t) but because I’d like to move up from a 1 br. to a 2 br. & that takes more VGF points than I currently have, VGF is tough to get at 7 months w/ my non VGF points, & VGF resale points in my use year aren’t often available on the resale market.

 

[What-r-ya Goofy?]

Also be aware that if you buy a "grandfathered" contract resale, that contract looses it's grandfathered status. Your ability to trade into other resorts will be based on your purchase date.

 

[RoseGold]

They can change all of these things and more, but they can't single out resale for it.

Examples: No one can borrow. VGF charges 10% more for non-VGF points. AKL is no longer in BVTC anymore and only AKL owners can stay there and can't use their points in the system.

All of these would be for everyone, not just resale buyers.

There's not much left to take away from resale. Top of the World lounge (maybe never reopening), pool hopping (not sure any hotel still even qualifies for this), the DVD library (LOL).

They could add things for DVC owners resale would be excluded from, but that doesn't seem to be happening much.

 

[davidl81]

In the last 20 years DVC has opened on average 1 new WDW DVC every 2 years, but of those only 4 have been ‘new’ - OKW to BWV 5 years, BWV to SSR 8 years, SSR to Riv 16 years.
The next completely independent DVC resort is rumored to be Reflections & it’s on indefinite hold. The only WDW deluxe resort w/out a DVC components is the YC (but you can currently stay at BCV or BWV,)

FWIW I think you skipped AKV. I would 100% argue that Kidani is a brand new build. It shares some things with AKL, but it was not a replacement for anything else.

 

[Miffy]

If you buy RIV direct, then you have access to all the resorts and future resorts going forward. But if you sell your RIV contract, the person who buys it will get access to only the RIV. This may reduce its resale value, although it's too soon to tell, since this will probably be a restriction on all the new resorts.

 

[Minniemoo15]

When we were making the decision, I was prone to having major FOMO for being blocked out of future resorts. My DH is more facts based (ie: let's not worry about what MIGHT happen, but what the actual situation is now...) After we talked through it, we ended up buying Poly resale. This is how I got past my FOMO:

-Poly is our favourite resort and where we will stay the majority of the time. We also love BCV, BWV, AKV so there are lots of options with the O14 to keep us happy.
-RIV has no appeal to us, but if we ever really wanted to stay there, we could pay cash with the tens of thousands of dollars we saved and still come out way ahead.
-20 years is a long time away to try and predict what DVC might do with those expiring resorts or in new resorts. If DVC builds a resort that we just HAVE to own, we can buy a direct contract at that time (possibly selling our Poly points for a good price to put towards it).

Obviously if we really loved RIV and wanted to stay there often, it would change our decision. But the fact that DVC is building GFV2, rumoured to be restriction-free, shows that none of us can predict what DVC will do tomorrow, let alone decades from now.

 

[davidl81]

Right now the biggest benefit as others have said is the ability to book RIV and whatever comes after that. I do admit one of the fun things about DVC is trying out all of the different resorts as they have their own vibe. Now that being said in the near term it's really not a huge deal since all you will miss out on is RIV and DLT when it comes online. 20 years from now it's different, but I think making a purchase today worried about how it's going to effect you in 20 years is kinda silly.
But as others have said the cost delta between direct at AKV and resale there is not huge. Resale is about $145ish a point and direct is $186 before incentives (based on purchase amount). Depending on the actual amount of points you are buying the final cost amount is still several thousand dollars, but it is not like in the past where there was a 40%+ cost difference in direct and resale on AKV.

 

[Minniemoo15]

Right now the biggest benefit as others have said is the ability to book RIV and whatever comes after that. I do admit one of the fun things about DVC is trying out all of the different resorts as they have their own vibe. Now that being said in the near term it's really not a huge deal since all you will miss out on is RIV and DLT when it comes online. 20 years from now it's different, but I think making a purchase today worried about how it's going to effect you in 20 years is kinda silly.
But as others have said the cost delta between direct at AKV and resale there is not huge. Resale is about $145ish a point and direct is $186 before incentives (based on purchase amount). Depending on the actual amount of points you are buying the final cost amount is still several thousand dollars, but it is not like in the past where there was a 40%+ cost difference in direct and resale on AKV.

Good point...if it was just a couple thousand difference we were talking about, likely we would have just gone direct. For us the delta between direct and resale was so big ($25,000 big), the math made the decision pretty clear.

 

[MickeyMice]

i just bought BCV resale - as the difference between direct and resale there is staggering, future possible restrictions are less of an issue with my contract expiring in 2042, the discounts and perks don't seem worth it the $, and we're just ignoring riviera. the thought process for other resorts/expirations/frequency of visits might be different.

 

[havoc315]

I find your choice of which resorts will be off limits to be curious, in fact of the currently built DVC resorts Riv would be off limits & the 2042 resorts expired, perhaps to be resurrected as ‘new’ off limit resorts. Thus, non grandfathered resale DVC access to Epcot/DHS will be gone but proximity to MK & AK will not, still available would be : SSR, AKV, OKW-E, BLT, VGF, Poly, & CCV.

You didn't understand my point -- My point was, in 2042 -- If you buy re-sale now, You won't have access to half the WDW DVC resorts, you won't have access to anything at Epcot, and your access would be limited to only the oldest resorts.
So imagine, right now, if you were limited to only the older resorts? The oldest resorts are OKW, SSR, BWV, BRV, BCV, and AKV. The newest DVC resorts are Poly, CCV, BLT, RIV and GFV. So imagine you weren't able to use the 4-5 newest resorts, and could only use the 4-5 oldest resorts.
That is what it will be like in 2042 -- You will have the "older" resorts -- GFV, Poly, BLT, AKV -- Which will be the "old" resorts in 2042. You won't have the "new" resorts such as RIV, any other newer resorts they build, the "new" BCV, BWV, etc.