Resale Restrictions (post POLY announcement)

[sethschroeder]

So I never really put too much in to Disney removing the restrictions in the past. We are now likely out to 2026 before the next resort would be added that would fall under the same restrictions as Riviera.

Do we think momentum is building to an announcement of the removal of resale restrictions for Riviera?

While I never worried about it much when buying (because I got a good price on RIV at $155) it seems this policy is very out of place.

 

[BamaGuy44]

I think DLT will tell us a lot. If it has the restrictions, that's a good indicator they will be the norm, at least for brand new associations, for the foreseeable future. If DLT has them and Poly2 ends up being its own association, it's almost guaranteed Poly2 will have them as well. If DLT doesn't have them, we'll know they're backing off that strategy.

Now as far as removing the restrictions on RIV, I'm not expert but is seems like it would be a mess to unwind it after so many points sold and resold with the restrictions in place.

 

[J-Dog]

Up to this point, I think that the general consensus is that the resale restrictions have not seriously affected resale prices, but obviously we don't know what will happen in the future with those prices. If RIV continues to be the only resort with restrictions, then I can see that eventually negatively affecting resale prices.

If that happens, and then they decide to remove those restrictions after that, then that seems to me like it would open DVD up to lawsuits for financial damage to people who sold low and then their buyer benefitted from lifting the restrictions.

I understand that the contract states that they have the right to remove them, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be sued and have to pay a bunch of legal fees.

In other words, IMO, if they are going to lift them, it needs to be NOW, not years from now when DVD has less and less control over resale/more and more owners with those restrictions in place.

 

[AvidDisReader]

Just to remind everyone, within the documents of RIV it states they can at any time change the resale restrictions. So no, this will not cause an issue.

 

[UofMGuy423]

RIV is selling with the restrictions, so I'm not sure what would motivate DVD to change course.

 

[TinkB278]

So would this mean those who bought RIV resale contracts could now book anywhere? If so, I might start looking at RIV resale.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Just to remind everyone, within the documents of RIV it states they can at any time change the resale restrictions. So no, this will not cause an issue.

Interesting, was not aware of that!

 

[Sandisw]

I think if it is confirmed that this new Poly build will be part of the same condo association…I find it odd it wasn’t stated…then we will see shifts away from those and RIV will see them removed.

I bought there because I love it but won’t complain if they are changed

 

[The Jackal]

I think DLT will tell us a lot. If it has the restrictions, that's a good indicator they will be the norm, at least for brand new associations, for the foreseeable future. If DLT has them and Poly2 ends up being its own association, it's almost guaranteed Poly2 will have them as well. If DLT doesn't have them, we'll know they're backing off that strategy.

Now as far as removing the restrictions on RIV, I'm not expert but is seems like it would be a mess to unwind it after so many points sold and resold with the restrictions in place.

I would expect DLT to continue restrictions. Probably 99% of those points will be bought to use just there, so the restrictions will not have much affect.

 

[J-Dog]

Just to remind everyone, within the documents of RIV it states they can at any time change the resale restrictions. So no, this will not cause an issue.

I disagree. You are right that they "have the right" to do it, but as I stated above, I think it's possible that will open them up to legal action.

If some seller gets screwed-over because they sold with restrictions, but then restrictions are lifted and those points are instantly worth more to the new owner, you can bet there will be some suin' going on. I'm sure that Disney will have attorneys advising them on this if they consider dropping restrictions.

It's no different than signing a waiver for jumping out of a plane - it might try to prevent legal action, but if someone dies, chances are good that some lawyers are getting paid...

 

[UofMGuy423]

I disagree. You are right that they "have the right" to do it, but as I stated above, I think it's possible that will open them up to legal action.

If some seller gets screwed-over because they sold with restrictions, but then restrictions are lifted and those points are instantly worth more to the new owner, you can bet there will be some suin' going on. I'm sure that Disney will have attorneys advising them on this if they consider dropping restrictions.

It's no different than signing a waiver for jumping out of a plane - it might try to prevent legal action, but if someone dies, chances are good that some lawyers are getting paid...

There's always a balance between the legal team and the business, but if their forecast showed dropping the restrictions would increase sales to a number they can't resist, then they'd bake the legal costs into that formula and take the increased sales.

 

[AvidDisReader]

I disagree. You are right that they "have the right" to do it, but as I stated above, I think it's possible that will open them up to legal action.

If some seller gets screwed-over because they sold with restrictions, but then restrictions are lifted and those points are instantly worth more to the new owner, you can bet there will be some suin' going on. I'm sure that Disney will have attorneys advising them on this if they consider dropping restrictions.

It's no different than signing a waiver for jumping out of a plane - it might try to prevent legal action, but if someone dies, chances are good that some lawyers are getting paid...

If you want to play devil's advocate that is ok with me. Legally, someone could sue----and lose. The docs state what they state and the owner signed the docs.

 

[TinkB278]

If you want to play devil's advocate that is ok with me. Legally, someone could sue----and lose. The docs state what they state and the owner signed the docs.

I agree with this. While I’m not familiar with timeshare law, to me, this seems to be similar to someone buying a house, and then when they go to sell it, they didn’t get as much at the time as the next seller, so they sue. Doesn’t seem like they’d have much of a leg to stand on. There is nothing in our contracts guaranteeing any certain resale value.

 

[J-Dog]

There's always a balance between the legal team and the business, but if their forecast showed dropping the restrictions would increase sales to a number they can't resist, then they'd bake the legal costs into that formula and take the increased sales.

Yes. I agree with you.

If you want to play devil's advocate that is ok with me. Legally, someone could sue----and lose. The docs state what they state and the owner signed the docs.

Yes. Like I said, based on the contract it could be deemed a frivolous suit, but it would still cost Disney money in the process.

The OP asked for opinions on dropping the restrictions. That's my opinion on something that could potentially be a factor. Not saying it would happen. I didn't necessarily care about the restrictions when I bought, but I would be happy if they went away.

 

[Bjaiken77]

I hope so. I plan to use RIV for many, many years. However, I don’t like that it’s the only resort singled out at WDW, regardless of what they do with DLT. That’s DL and California.

I’m not going to lose sleep if they never remove the restrictions - I like the resort and knew about them when I purchased. However, no resale restrictions is better for me. I would probably add on another small RIV contract if they’d ditch the restrictions.

 

[Sandisw]

I disagree. You are right that they "have the right" to do it, but as I stated above, I think it's possible that will open them up to legal action.

If some seller gets screwed-over because they sold with restrictions, but then restrictions are lifted and those points are instantly worth more to the new owner, you can bet there will be some suin' going on. I'm sure that Disney will have attorneys advising them on this if they consider dropping restrictions.

It's no different than signing a waiver for jumping out of a plane - it might try to prevent legal action, but if someone dies, chances are good that some lawyers are getting paid...

We all bought understanding the rules and knowing they could be eliminated.

And, honestly, I don’t see many suing because resale value language is also a big part of the contract in terms of not buying with any such expectation.

 

[RichVIII]

I think they will wait and see, I think that is why the left it open for now. DLT seems in line with restrictions. They can have an excuse with Poly. And let’s be real, this is a stop-gap to make money when we are facing a potential recession, inflation and still uncertantity with COVID. After GFV2 and Poly2, they can refocus and have two resorts with restrictions and add a new one and keep moving.

 

[Bearval]

So I never really put too much in to Disney removing the restrictions in the past. We are now likely out to 2026 before the next resort would be added that would fall under the same restrictions as Riviera.

Do we think momentum is building to an announcement of the removal of resale restrictions for Riviera?

While I never worried about it much when buying (because I got a good price on RIV at $155) it seems this policy is very out of place.

I don't see DVC ever removing the restrictions. Having the restrictions in place benefits DVC in at least two cases, one it drives some people to buy direct by FOMO and two it puts a limit on resale values so when the resort is finally sold out they can exercise ROFR at a lower cost.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I disagree. You are right that they "have the right" to do it, but as I stated above, I think it's possible that will open them up to legal action.

If some seller gets screwed-over because they sold with restrictions, but then restrictions are lifted and those points are instantly worth more to the new owner, you can bet there will be some suin' going on. I'm sure that Disney will have attorneys advising them on this if they consider dropping restrictions.

It's no different than signing a waiver for jumping out of a plane - it might try to prevent legal action, but if someone dies, chances are good that some lawyers are getting paid...

No. That's not a thing.

That's like saying "Disney built a new walkway between the Grand Floridian and the Magic Kingdom, which made VGF points more valuable, so I'm going to sue because I sold my VGF contact in 2019."

Decisions made by Disney that alter the market value of resale contracts are not actionable.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't see DVC ever removing the restrictions. Having the restrictions in place benefits DVC in at least two cases, one it drives some people to buy direct by FOMO and two it puts a limit on resale values so when the resort is finally sold out they can exercise ROFR at a lower cost.

Speaking only for myself, the restrictions are the exact thing that drove me to resale.

I have zero interest in owning a contract that's going to be restricted (and therefore less valuable) on the back end.