repeated BUS ABUSE ON OUR TRIP THIS PAST WEEK

[Sammie]

Now, I have a follow-up question on the gate idea. Would restricted gate access be simply one way (DTD to SSR) or would a key card be required in both directions? Should our active DVC member cards permit access to the SSR grounds as well? What about the Swan and Dolphin room keys? I toured SSR, but I did not get to see the magical bridge How would you think such an access point be restricted (how should a gate be built)?
Thank you for listening!

It would have to be included with a fence or people would just walk around it. At beach resorts on the Gulf you only have to have your room ID to access it from the outside. You can go through it without, but you can't get back in. Of course even with this some will prop it open, but you guys know me so when I go through I always close it for them. I am sure they just forgot. Same at Vero and Hilton Head.

Actually to me there is no need for anyone to have access to the gate unless they have an SSR resort ID. Any DVC member that wants to come over would not be walking from DD anyway, they would either bus or drive over.

 

[Synonymous]

Jeez, don't people have more important things to worry about on vacation than whether or not other guests are "abusing" the bus system? This just seems terribly mean-spirited and selfish. Go ahead and have your fun and don't worry about how other people are having theirs. Is waiting a few extra minutes for a bus really going to make or break your vacation? If it is, then you're probably at the wrong place.

 

[golfnut1264]

Golfnut1264,If you think Disney is the most expensive place in the world to vacation, you have not traveled very far. Many places are much more expensive than DW.

sammie...dont take everything so literally in life....and you have no idea were i have travelled....the point was not to try and prove disney as the most exspensive place in the world to travel....to middle class america who cant afford vacations you can take disney is very exspensive.....

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Jeez, don't people have more important things to worry about on vacation than whether or not other guests are "abusing" the bus system? This just seems terribly mean-spirited and selfish. Go ahead and have your fun and don't worry about how other people are having theirs. Is waiting a few extra minutes for a bus really going to make or break your vacation? If it is, then you're probably at the wrong place.

You know what Tom it will! (I thought I was done with this thread but I couldn't resist)AND I will tell you why. My son has epilepsy and sometimes it knocks the crap out of him. Those few extra minutes I have to wait for a bus or stand because some cheap freeloader couldn't pay the $8 to park or upgrade to a park hopper ticket or stay at a onsite resort because someone encouraged them to walk over to my resort and use the bus intended for those who want to enjoy WDW rather than scam it does make a difference for the magic for my family.
A woman yelling at the bus drivers, her family and complaining to other resort guests because she was told a free shuttle was available from the CP bus stop to the Hilton does ruin the magic for us.
Of course is it not mean spirited and selfish of the ones who don't belong on the bus? Why is mean spirited to voice my concerns over the abuse? Don't you think you are putting your judgements on the wrong side of this issue Tom?
Many people have issues in their family (like mine) that require advance planning & one of the reasons we bought into DVC and always enjoy WDW so much is because of how the system works when it is used appropriately. We plan vacations for our son to be enjoyable and I will be damned if I will sit by and watch other people take advantage of something I pay for while they don't just to get free parking.
I guess it doesn't matter to them that they are inconviencing families by THEIR actions. Sure that doesn't matter at all and according to you Tom it shouldn't right! But the ones who speak up about their abuse should be made to feel like the guilty party!
Well Tom hopefully you will never have to worry about holding your worn out child in your arms because he just had a seizure. And thankfully for you this is something you never even have to plan for but unfortunately I DO. So seeing people take up a seat they are not entitled to gets me worried for the future when the resort is at capacity! How selfish of me to worry about my sons needs and being upset when I see abuse ! How selfish of me!

 

[Doctor P]

There is another reason that someone could legitimately park at DTD and not be trying to scam the system at all. Let's say that you are staying off-site, have a multi-day ticket and intend to park hop and end the day/night at DTD/Pleasure Island. I don't see anything wrong with parking at DTD, hopping a bus (even if it means walking to SSR) to the first theme park, riding WDW transportation between parks, and then riding transportation back to DTD via SSR. The problem is the transportation system, not the people who use it this way. Perhaps the easiest solution would be to eliminate buses to SSR and just send them to DTD and let the SSR walk back to the resort. Since it is so easy to do this according to this thread, I can't imagine that anyone at SSR would have a problem with this.

 

[Doctor P]

3DisneyNUTS,

If this transportation issue is so critical to you and your family given your circumstances, I would gently suggest that using WDW transportation may not be your best option in any case. If you cannot wait in lines, have to be on a particular schedule, and need to minimize transport time, the bus system was probably not meant for you. Perhaps a private driver, or at least a rental car, would meet your needs better.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

3DisneyNUTS,

If this transportation issue is so critical to you and your family given your circumstances, I would gently suggest that using WDW transportation may not be your best option in any case. If you cannot wait in lines, have to be on a particular schedule, and need to minimize transport time, the bus system was probably not meant for you. Perhaps a private driver, or at least a rental car, would meet your needs better.

I don't think it is that severe to warrant cutting out the buses. My son loves the WDW buses. He actually talks more about that than some of the attrctions believe it or not. Thankfully the buses have worked out fine for us in the past. My point in bringing up his situation is that I have to always keep an open ear or eye for things that could affect him negatively. So for Tom to say my paying attention to the bus abuse is mean spirited or selfish how dare he?

Also part of living with epilepsy means that we have to make it a "part" of our lives rather than the focus. In order for my son to experience life as "normally" as possible does not mean altering everything I can. To change our experience to not using the buses would be a negative for him since he enjoys it so much. So rather than cutting that out completely I would chose to go to the park later and leave earlier to avoid the lines and or crowds. Still giving Chris the typical experience that he deserves and enjoys.

Also epilepsy has it peaks and valleys. My son was seizure free for a year and he was diagnosed 1 1/2 years ago with it. So he actually has many seizure free days compared to not. So normally it is not an issue unfortunately on this last trip it was and why I had to pay closer attention to things that may affect our trip and plan accordingly.

Last but not least we have driven to the parks and the whole tram thing and then the tram monorail thing seems to make it more of a hassle for us than just hoping on a bus. So in our experience the busses are an easier mode of transportation for us. We do have a rental car on trips as a back up though. But like this last trip I was hardpressed to even use 1/4 of a tank of gas.

 

[Synonymous]

Anybody who has experience with the buses at WDW knows that wait times and seating space vary wildly for a wide variety of reasons. There's no way you can say that "abuse" is the cause of you having to wait a few extra minutes. As Doctor P pointed out, there are other options if a couple of extra minutes wait is something that will make or break your vacation.

And, who are you to say that these folks aren't entitled to a seat on the bus? Where is that rule posted? Disney is telling them to do it, so should they politely decline because it might possibly mean you have to wait a couple more minutes?

If you're going to have your vacation at a place that attracts millions of visitors, you're going to have to realize, and plan for, the fact that those other folks might inconvenience you at some point. Many is the time I've had to wait with a sleeping DD in my arms and wonder where the heck the bus was. Is it frustrating? Sure. Did I blame the other people who were riding the bus for my frustration? No.

 

[Sherri]

I hear people mentioning the hopper pass. If you have a hopper pass, are you entitled to use the disney transportation system from any resort for free? Also, i'm going to say that my friend vacationed with other friends of theirs that were DVC members. My friend is not and was staying elsewhere (off property). She was easily able to swim at the Beach Club and use the transportation as well. I'm just suprised at how easy this stuff seems. Why isn't it a big concern to Disney? You would think it would be. I know they can't stop everyone, but more steps could be taken.

 

[Sherri]

So Tom just said that Disney tells these people who are not staying on Disney property that is okay to use the transportation. So this doesn't break Disneys rules, then whose rules is it breaking?

 

[Synonymous]

I believe that anybody is allowed to use the Disney buses- at least I've never seen anything that says otherwise. Using the pool is different, there are certainly rules about Stormalong Bay. Most times, lifeguards pass out wristbands as you come in, after showing your room key. The system isn't foolproof, and at slow times, when a couple of extra people in the pool doesn't make a difference, they may not bother.

 

[lllovell]

Anybody who has experience with the buses at WDW knows that wait times and seating space vary wildly for a wide variety of reasons. There's no way you can say that "abuse" is the cause of you having to wait a few extra minutes. As Doctor P pointed out, there are other options if a couple of extra minutes wait is something that will make or break your vacation.

And, who are you to say that these folks aren't entitled to a seat on the bus? Where is that rule posted? Disney is telling them to do it, so should they politely decline because it might possibly mean you have to wait a couple more minutes?

If you're going to have your vacation at a place that attracts millions of visitors, you're going to have to realize, and plan for, the fact that those other folks might inconvenience you at some point. Many is the time I've had to wait with a sleeping DD in my arms and wonder where the heck the bus was. Is it frustrating? Sure. Did I blame the other people who were riding the bus for my frustration? No.

You are missing the main part of the discussion here (at least from my perspective) which is that we are owners at SSR that subsidize the bus system there through our dues (as it has been pointed out that we dont pay for all of it - we certainly pay for over a million of it each year). If the CMs are telling most that ask to take the SSR buses, it means that in the long run more buses will have to be run, which probably will NOT be fully paid for by Disney, but again paid partially by us in a dues increase.

There is also a feeling of a huge security hole that of course would exists in all of the other resorts but to a much lesser degree because no one is encouraging lots of people to go through SSR and showing them how open things are from the DTD side with our wonderful walkways, etc. I know you can ride a bus to any resort as it stands, but it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy since it points out a glaring hole in the security to anyone that has a devious mind. Would they think of it anyway - maybe.

Someone pointed out that our transportation costs as owners of SSR is probably directly related to the number of rooms that are complete. If that is the case, then telling others to take the bus to SSR to get to DTD IS taking seats that are supposed to be for visitors and guests of SSR. If Disney is going to add more buses to the line at THEIR cost, then it would also be simple for the drivers to stop at the DTD bus stop after dropping the guests at SSR off thus keeping the un-needed foot traffic to a minimum.

The problem of people not wanting to pay to park HAS been noticed and addressed by Disney. they stopped running buses directly from DTD to the parks because of it. With the opening of SSR, another situation as come up that needs to be addressed. With so many thinking about it, I am hoping it will at least be brought to the attention of those that can figure out a solution.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Anybody who has experience with the buses at WDW knows that wait times and seating space vary wildly for a wide variety of reasons. There's no way you can say that "abuse" is the cause of you having to wait a few extra minutes. As Doctor P pointed out, there are other options if a couple of extra minutes wait is something that will make or break your vacation.

And, who are you to say that these folks aren't entitled to a seat on the bus? Where is that rule posted? Disney is telling them to do it, so should they politely decline because it might possibly mean you have to wait a couple more minutes?

If you're going to have your vacation at a place that attracts millions of visitors, you're going to have to realize, and plan for, the fact that those other folks might inconvenience you at some point. Many is the time I've had to wait with a sleeping DD in my arms and wonder where the heck the bus was. Is it frustrating? Sure. Did I blame the other people who were riding the bus for my frustration? No.

Even if they are not supposed to be on the bus Tom? If they are using the bus to avoid parking fees? I am quite sure these people aren't going up to Cast Members saying "I am planning on avoiding paying the required parking fees by leaving my car at DTD. Could you help me get there the fastest?"

I never said the extra waits at certain times are entirely from abuse did I? BUT I am concerned that when the resort is at capacity that the CP bus stop at SSR will have extra traffic from people who want to get free parking. Am I not entitled to voice my concerns Tom?

It is very easy to generalize it as being something that just has to be dealt with when travelling on the WDW transportation system. What you are not taking into account are the unique circumstances that are created by the unchecked pathway from DTD to SSR. With the millions of WDW guests I am sure that if left to its own devices that this will be a noticeable problem for SSR especially at the CP stop. How do I know?... because last week when I was there I witnessed it myself and the resort is only 1/4 done! Pretty worrisome IMO especially giving the resort is not even completed.

 

[nowellsl]

I understand the complaints, but the more I think about it the more I don't think I have a problem with it (I know that that might seem odd given my thoughts about other rules). Though it is not the intended way to do things, I'm not sure that any rule is being broken (if you at least have a multi-day ticket), nor do I necessarily think that the spirit of the rule is probably being abused too severely. Here is my thought: 1) If the person is staying at a Disney resort or has a multi-day ticket that gives access to the Disney transportation, then they are entitled to use the buses as they wish; 2) Using the bus to SSR to get to DTD is not a particularly convenient way to get to DTD or to get to one's car or back to a DTD hotel--at minimum it requires a decent walk, at maximum it could be a very long walk (through DTD) to one's car; 3) people that visit SSR via the bus are likely more likely to buy after having seen the resort (as opposed to having not seen the resort) so I think that would be an argument to not discourage the possibility); 4) there are lots of other cases where this happens with the WDW transportation system and they have not proven to be a huge issue (riding to BCV to go to the World Showcase at Epcot, riding to Contemporary or a monorail resort to go to MK, riding to BW to go to MGM); 5) I don't think most people will really try to save $8 by going through the hassle of parking at DTD, and if they do I will bet that many of them end up spending money at DTD anyway. If it were a major problem for DTD during the day, I think there would be more policing of it but generally DTD is pretty empty as far as parking during the day and it can be quite a walk to the bus stops. It's a hassle to park at DTD to go to the parks, so I think that is really enough disincentive that most people won't do it.

This is exactly the way I feel about it! You stated it very well!

 

[MiaSRN62]

Last but not least we have driven to the parks and the whole tram thing and then the tram monorail thing seems to make it more of a hassle for us than just hoping on a bus. So in our experience the busses are an easier mode of transportation for us. We do have a rental car on trips as a back up though. But like this last trip I was hardpressed to even use 1/4 of a tank of gas.

3DisneyNuts,
I can most certainly understand your concerns. My dd had "seizures of unknown origin" from age 3-10. We were always at Children's Hosp of Phila for test after test. I had to adminster CPR to her on two occasions. They could not pin a definite diagnosis of epilepsy on her because of certain tests she passed and they didn't want to start her on any drugs until they were sure. So for years, we lived with seizures coming and going. She was finally diagnosed around age 10 with a cardiac problem and has since the age of 12 had no seizures (she's now 14). But, I have some awful Disney bus stories of trying to get back to the resort because she had a seizure or had just fought one off. Waiting 15-20 min.....then standing on a crowded bus for another 10-15 min. We discovered it was much more convenient using our car. The only exception was the MK, where I agree, the busses are more advantageous. We usually arrive to the parks early and often can even bypass the tram and just walk into the parks by getting a spot up close. But even with the trams, they run quicker and you are assured of getting a seat and not having to stand. Just something to consider if the bus situation at SSR gets worst instead of better. I know this is not offering any solutions to the existing problem, but I just wanted you to know that I can appreciate times when waiting does make a big difference. We always get to and from the parks quicker (often 1/2 the time) using a car vs the bus system (MK aside). And this is whether we stay onsite or off. I wish your son and your family well, as this type of illness can be challenging to live with. Sounds like he's a trooper.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

3DisneyNuts,
I can most certainly understand your concerns. My dd had "seizures of unknown origin" from age 3-10. We were always at Children's Hosp of Phila for test after test. I had to adminster CPR to her on two occasions. They could not pin a definite diagnosis of epilepsy on her because of certain tests she passed and they didn't want to start her on any drugs until they were sure. So for years, we lived with seizures coming and going. She was finally diagnosed around age 10 with a cardiac problem and has since the age of 12 had no seizures (she's now 14). But, I have some awful Disney bus stories of trying to get back to the resort because she had a seizure or had just fought one off. Waiting 15-20 min.....then standing on a crowded bus for another 10-15 min. We discovered it was much more convenient using our car. The only exception was the MK, where I agree, the busses are more advantageous. We usually arrive to the parks early and often can even bypass the tram and just walk into the parks by getting a spot up close. But even with the trams, they run quicker and you are assured of getting a seat and not having to stand. Just something to consider if the bus situation at SSR gets worst instead of better. I know this is not offering any solutions to the existing problem, but I just wanted you to know that I can appreciate times when waiting does make a big difference. We always get to and from the parks quicker (often 1/2 the time) using a car vs the bus system (MK aside). And this is whether we stay onsite or off. I wish your son and your family well, as this type of illness can be challenging to live with. Sounds like he's a trooper.

Thanks for sharing Maria. I am so glad your DD is doing well now.

Of course when we drove to MK we hadn't bothered to drive to any of the other parks because MK was so nuts for us with the tram/monorail stuff we just wrote off using the car. Maybe next trip we will try the other parks ....that is if we can get DS to not ask for the bus LOL. A driver gave him an official WDW Bus license and forget it he is in heaven with that thing.

He has been amazingly resilient in all of this the poor kid. He really doesn't let him get him down and through him, coping is so much easier for us. We strive to have his strength and he is only 4 LOL.

Hopefully this bus situation will not be as bad as I fear but again I am worried because if I saw it happening and the resort was only 1/4 done how bad will it be when they are at capacity and more people find out about this option?

 

[nowellsl]

"Even if they are not supposed to be on the bus Tom? If they are using the bus to avoid parking fees? I am quite sure these people aren't going up to Cast Members saying "I am planning on avoiding paying the required parking fees by leaving my car at DTD. Could you help me get there the fastest?"

I'm sorry, but you keep saying these people should not have been on the bus - but as many people have said, they had every right to be there. If you are staying at the Hilton - I would venture to guess that you are not driving over to DTD to park. They probably walked over, so they are not trying to get out of paying parking. They are simply using a perk that they are fully entitled to. As for the ones who did in fact park at DTD and went to the parks that is wrong, but they still were entitled to use Disney transportation!

 

[lllovell]

I'm sorry, but you keep saying these people should not have been on the bus - but as many people have said, they had every right to be there. If you are staying at the Hilton - I would venture to guess that you are not driving over to DTD to park. They probably walked over, so they are not trying to get out of paying parking. They are simply using a perk that they are fully entitled to. As for the ones who did in fact park at DTD and went to the parks that is wrong, but they still were entitled to use Disney transportation!

Then what is the point of having the resorts gated with a guard? There is an implication of rule breaking going on here. As many have said there is the actual wording of the rules and then the spirit of the rules. People that are walking over from the Hilton can currently walk onto the SSR property via the path (which is apparently a pretty good little hike - so why not just take any bus from the bus stop?), but they are NOT being told by CMs that this is the best way to get from DTD to the parks. That is where the biggest issue lies. If Disney is encouraging this behavior, then they need to step up and address the extra expense and inconvenience that it will cause more and more often as SSR is completed.

Have you ever tried getting on an All Star bus at park closing....ACK!!! Never again for my family. I have small children and you would think a stampede had started from people pushing and shoving. I don't want that same type of thing to happen if the buses from SSR are the "main" mode of transportation suggested to people heading to DTD. There are many other modes or Disney can send more buses (at THEIR expense). I just dont want to have to pay for it and dont want to be penalized because I bought at a resort that is close to a destination. It needs to be addressed.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

"Even if they are not supposed to be on the bus Tom? If they are using the bus to avoid parking fees? I am quite sure these people aren't going up to Cast Members saying "I am planning on avoiding paying the required parking fees by leaving my car at DTD. Could you help me get there the fastest?"

I'm sorry, but you keep saying these people should not have been on the bus - but as many people have said, they had every right to be there. If you are staying at the Hilton - I would venture to guess that you are not driving over to DTD to park. They probably walked over, so they are not trying to get out of paying parking. They are simply using a perk that they are fully entitled to. As for the ones who did in fact park at DTD and went to the parks that is wrong, but they still were entitled to use Disney transportation!

So then use it appropriately and transfer at TTC don't use the SSR as the transportation center.

Obviously the woman from the Hilton was irate because how she was told to go made it harder on her (she was yelling she could not walk because of back problems) So my point was how is this magical for anyone? She was displeased for not having direct transportation to the Hilton and the guests subjected to her yelling and complaining were also not "feeling the magic".

My point is that a perk is being abused to avoid paying parking. Whether it is an entitlement or not why should they be using our resorts bus stop to "get over" on parking? I am sure the pathway to DTD was not created for this and the bus stop at CP was designed as a small resort stop not one that will be able to accomadate all the parking avoiders.

Now lets not forget the pool that is right off the pathway. With leaving the path unchecked it practically invites pool crashers. And those dishonest enough to scam free parking why not a dip in the pool too? I mean part of staying at SSR is to get the perks of the path the convience of being close to DTD etc. Why should those not staying there be entitled to the perks on a techincality?

Also I know there is a sign when you enter the pathway from DTD I am pretty sure it says "Pathway for Saratoga Springs resort guests only" (I am not sure of the exact wording.

Then there is another for the longer path that goes through the woods that says "Pathway closed from dusk to dawn". Walking to DTD from SSR there is one that says that "bikes are not allowed past this point".

So it is pretty clear that they do not want non SSR guests using the path and definitiely have it posted that the darker woods path is closed at night.

I wish I took pictures of the signs for exact wording but the gist is there.

 

[cruise-o-matic]

Serenity NOW! Serenity NOW!