Renting Points We Are Selling Too Low

[StephenKay]

Hi there,

We need a cartel, let's set a minimum of say $15 per point and work up from there. For the past few years we have been taken for mugs by the public lets fight back, $10 is a joke, no MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Beca]

Wow!!! You feel pretty strongly about this!! Just a "heads up"...price fixing is illegal, so be careful.

But, yes....points are (IMHO) way to low!!!



Beca

 

[my4kids]

I just put this on the other thread on this board titled "renting points" - but I'll copy it here for all of your reading pleasure as well....



You can not compare the savings over rack rate to the rental price. $10 a point IS a great deal over rack rate....but if the per point price was $12-$15 I would say "thanks but no thanks" and pay rack for smaller accomadations through Disney. People who pay rack for villas have enough money to do so and aren't going to go to the trouble to rent points, assume risk etc. The market for renting points is in the people who can afford mod and value, but are willing to go to a little more trouble to get more bang for their buck...I think if you want to work the math based on percentage savings over rack, you need to compare what these people are paying at a mod. I could still pay rack at POR and save money through Disney over renting points for a 2 BR villa to fit my family. (OK we would be squeezed in the room with a shoe horn), but if I'm saving enough, I'll do it...we are never in the room anyway, I don't need a kitchen on vacation. Don't get me wrong, I love the villas, I just don't love them enough to pay rack or even close to rack for them.

I just think that the market determines the price....if the risks involved and the product were truly worth $15 a point then renters would be bidding that for points to get an advantage over others looking to rent at the same time. You just don't see that happening. It might happen in the future...but I think anyone wanting $12 or over is going to have a hard time unloading their points. If you need to unload them, you need to unload them. The other thing that sets the price is availability, Disney is selling so many memberships that points are not exactly rare to come buy. Also, the time value thing doesn't really bear any weight with a renter....if it is so troubling for you to rent out your points then don't rent them out. (OH _ but you NEED to rent them out ) Let's not forget that renters are doing a huge service to the members as well.

Also, let us not forget that the market rate for DVC members to have points tranferred into their acct is currently between $9 and $11, so members have the same good fortune on buying points.

It's all good.


Donning flame gear
Just my thoughts on the subject....I understand why owners wanting their investment protected would see it differently....

edited to correct a few of my many spelling mistakes and typos...

 

[JPC]

Hi there,

We need a cartel, lets set a minimum of say $15 per point a work up from their. For the past few years we have been taken for mugs by the public lets fit back, $10 is a joke, no MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is price fixing?
Most state statutes provide that fixing the price of a product or service in agreement with another individual or business is illegal. The general rule provides that a vendor may not in combination with another vendor agree to set a certain price thereby creating a fixed price within a certain market. A business acting on its own and not in concert with another may use legitimate efforts to obtain the best price they can, including their ability to raise prices to the detriment of the general public. Also, conformity of prices within a given product is not illegal unless such conformity was created by a combination of vendors agreeing on a set price. For example, where competitors agree to sell their goods or services at a specified price, minimum price or maximum price and they receive profits from such an agreement, they are in violation of price fixing. Additionally, setting a price to be charged only within a certain area in order to get rid of competition or to create a monopoly is generally illegal under most state laws. A majority of states have also enacted a "Below-Sales-Cost" law wherein businesses may not sell goods below cost if they do so with anti-competitive intent or effect.

This information is only a brief summary of the extensive price fixing laws and regulations. For specific application of price fixing regulations, please consult with an attorney.

 

[DebbieB]

One thing to consider is if weekend nights are involved. For example, at SSR in mid June 1 bedroom is 27 points weeknights, 54 points weekends. Rack rate would be about $450 including tax (but no full housekeeping, which would be $30 per night). If someone only wants the 5 weeknights, then you should ask more per point. If someone wants the whole 7 nights, you could adjust the price per point to account for it.

I agree that it comes down to what the market will bare. There's always going to be someone who is desparate to unload the points and will rent for less.

 

[Daitcher]

I just put this on the other thread on this board titled "renting points" - but I'll copy it here for all of your reading pleasure as well....



You can not compare the savings over rack rate to the rental price. $10 a point IS a great deal over rack rate....but if the per point price was $12-$15 I would say "thanks but no thanks" and pay rack for smaller accomadations through Disney. People who pay rack for villas have enough money to do so and aren't going to go to the trouble to rent points, assume risk etc. The market for renting points is in the people who can afford mod and value, but are willing to go to a little more trouble to get more bang for their buck...I think if you want to work the math based on percentage savings over rack, you need to compare what these people are paying at a mod. I could still pay rack at POR and save money through Disney over renting points for a 2 BR villa to fit my family. (OK we would be squeezed in the room with a shoe horn), but if I'm saving enough, I'll do it...we are never in the room anyway, I don't need a kitchen on vacation. Don't get me wrong, I love the villas, I just don't love them enough to pay rack or even close to rack for them.

I just think that the market determines the price....if the risks involved and the product were truly worth $15 a point then renters would be bidding that for points to get an advantage over others looking to rent at the same time. You just don't see that happening. It might happen in the future...but I think anyone wanting $12 or over is going to have a hard time unloading their points. If you need to unload them, you need to unload them. The other thing that sets the price is availability, Disney is selling so many memberships that points are not exactly rare to come buy. Also, the time value thing doesn't really bear any weight with a renter....if it is so troubling for you to rent out your points then don't rent them out. (OH _ but you NEED to rent them out ) Let's not forget that renters are doing a huge service to the members as well.

Also, let us not forget that the market rate for DVC members to have points tranferred into their acct is currently between $9 and $11, so members have the same good fortune on buying points.

It's all good.


Donning flame gear
Just my thoughts on the subject....I understand why owners wanting their investment protected would see it differently....

edited to correct a few of my many spelling mistakes and typos...

No flame suit required. You are right on the money here. I'm not going to rent points to save a few bucks. Why have to deal with another unknown member and risk being scammed. Renting points isn't for the wealthy it is for the people you mention. Higher pricing right now would mean points not being rented.

DAVE

 

[JudyS]

Hi there,

We need a cartel, lets set a minimum of say $15 per point a work up from their. For the past few years we have been taken for mugs by the public lets fight back, $10 is a joke, no MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think members would agree to a cartel, and as mentioned here already, price fixing is illegal.

That said, I agree that $10 a point is too low. I really feel that I am barely breaking even, if that, when I rent out points at that cost.

I suspect that many DISers would be happy to pay $11 or $12 a point *if* they knew that it was possible to rent DVC point from other DISers. At $12 a point, you can get a standard view studio weeknights at BWV for $108, during certain times of year. No AP needed, no getting up at dawn and speed-dialing to try to get a discount. That same $108 is barely enough to get a moderate room (with tax), even after most discounts.

I think the problem is that many DISers who don't own DVC don't know about
renting points. Virtually all DISers who own at the DVC know they can rent points. The result is that is plenty of supply (from all of the DVC members here on the DVC forums), but not enough demand (because most non-DVC owners don't know they can rent points.)

I believe the solution is to get the word out to more folks over on the Disney Resorts board. Maybe we can ask the moderators of that board to start a sticky thread on the topic, and add information about DVC to the FAQs about Boardwalk, Beach Club, and Wilderness Lodge. Individuals DVC owners can also make a point of visiting the Resorts board and mentioning DVC points to people looking for deals.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

It can't be considered price-fixing or be illegal if your "cartel" is getting togther to set a price well below the going rate for the identical accomodations purchsed from Disney. If you conspire with Disney at their established rates, it may be considered pricefixing, but Disney hardly has cornered the "accommodation market" in the Orlando area, so even in that case it may not be price fixing.

The price fixing scare is an attempt to fear DVC members into keeping the rental rates artificially low.

 

[CarolA]

These threads AMAZE me LOL!

If you want $15 then ASK for it.. I somehow doubt the FTC is going to come after DIS Board poster for price fixing no matter what you do.

No one is making anyone rent for $10 a point. If you think the price is too low others have posted they get more on EBAY etc. Head there..... (Or of course you could just do what I do either use them or give them to friends)

 

[Plutofan]

People are selling at low prices because they want to sell them fast. If you have time and enjoy working with renters I think that you can get a higher price but when you factor in your time you do not get much of a return.

 

[mef78]

Just a little comment from one of your "consumers"--

I've rented points twice (currently booked for a third time) and have been blessed with a wonderful "landlord" who goes FAR out of his way to be sure we're happy. The bottom line for me is paying as little as possible for the best accomodations possible; so far, I've been able to do that through renting. I'm not sure if I'd be able to keep going at $15 per, though--at that point I might just go ahead and book the moderate.

 

[senecabeach]

No one is making anyone rent for $10 a point. If you think the price is too low others have posted they get more on EBAY etc. Head there..... (Or of course you could just do what I do either use them or give them to friends)

AMEN....

 

[rogerram]

We need a cartel, lets set a minimum of say $15 per point a work up from their. For the past few years we have been taken for mugs by the public lets fight back, $10 is a joke, no MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can set it for $15 if you like, but don't tell me what I have to set mine at if I ever do rent. If I feel $9 is right for me, then I will do it. If I want $25, then I can try that, too. It's my decision, no one elses.

 

[BellaBuggy]

I'm new here - maybe I missed something - but I thought that the OP was a little tongue-in-cheek, semi-serious about the price but joking about the cartel. ?

 

[carolina_yankee]

Hi there,

We need a cartel, lets set a minimum of say $15 per point a work up from their. For the past few years we have been taken for mugs by the public lets fight back, $10 is a joke, no MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to ask, why the anger over a free market? We aren't supposed to be using DVC as an investment, but as a pre-paid vacation. I agree there are reasonable upper and lower limits to a rental price, but there are way too many factors to say one price fits all. There are any number of ways to gauge value, and they're not always financial.

For me, if I ever offer my points to rent, I'm going to offer in the midrange of what people are charging. I won't go below that unless I'm desperate, and I won't try to get top dollar because once I decide to do it, I want it done and not have to worry about it. I suspect there are many renters in the same position.

I guess what bugs me is the sense I'm seeing on the threads that we're entitled to make top dollar on the point rental market when that's not the purpose of DVC to begin with. Bank 'em, use 'em, transfer 'em, give 'em to friends, rent 'em for what the market will bear. Your choice.

Likewise for a prospective renter, pay what the market will bear and recognize a DVC member is not your personal TA, or stay elsewhere!!

When I posted a desire to rent points (before becoming a member) I got an offer of $10 and $11. The $11 offer came first, but the tone of the email was very off-putting so I waited. If I had only gotten $11 offers, I still wouldn't have gone with the first for that reason. After all, I'm a prospective renter, not a criminal, cheapskate, our scam artist. The second offer was for $10 from someone else who has rented many times to others. We've had a very pleasant business relationship with no problems on either side, and I would steer anyone to her again, regardless of the price she charges.

Just my two cents -

 

[Deb & Bill]

My biggest wonder is why does a non-member think they are entitled to a deluxe vacation at less than value prices???? I see so many posts about, "I can get two rooms at the value resorts for less than I would pay for a 2 bedroom villa at $10 or $10+ per point". Why should a member subsidize a non-member?

We take lots of family members or friends and provide the lodging for free. I'd rather have a very grateful friend or family member along on a trip than a bargain hunter.

 

[jmminarik]

That said, I agree that $10 a point is too low. I really feel that I am barely breaking even, if that, when I rent out points at that cost.

That's how you feel...but that doesn't mean it's your true break-even point. Many people, esp. those in since the 90's, break-even would be in the $5-7 range.

-Joe

 

[browniemtb]

There has been a lot of threads on this topic. My 2 cents.....$15 per point would be great but not feasible in todays market. I think as renters we have to take into perspective the requests we get. For instance you want a 2 bedroom villa at BWV, home resort, stardard view for F&W at the 11 month window...now that to me would be a $11+ market price. But some one requesting a quick vacation in September or October would be lower. Also as we all know DVC owners forget to bank points and some points can't be banked because they are from the previous UY, so its a use them or lose them game..this drives the market down.....$8 to $9 a point is better then loosing them. Basically its like buying a condo for $200,000 and then your neighbor sells his unit, the same type, for $145,000. It would drive the complex resale prices down for a bit.
Brownie

 

[snowbunny]

My biggest wonder is why does a non-member think they are entitled to a deluxe vacation at less than value prices????

Speaking as a former nonmember, I did not think I was entitled to anything. But I quickly realized, when I was trying to rent a large number of points for a GV family vacation and received a few offers in the range of $12-15 per point, that I could buy the points outright for 42 years (with banking and borrowing points) for just about twice what the member would be collecting from me for one week.

The member is certainly free to charge whatever he or she thinks the points are worth, and the prospective renter is equally free to decide the price does not match the value.

 

[my4kids]

Speaking as a former nonmember, I did not think I was entitled to anything. But I quickly realized, when I was trying to rent a large number of points for a GV family vacation and received a few offers in the range of $12-15 per point, that I could buy the points outright for 42 years (with banking and borrowing points) for just about twice what the member would be collecting from me for one week.

The member is certainly free to charge whatever he or she thinks the points are worth, and the prospective renter is equally free to decide the price does not match the value.

Exactly the point I was trying to make - and I don't want to buy in..

Someone ws saying "why should a member subsidize a non-members vacation?" and I'm saying, "Why should I subsidize a huge portion of a member purchase price for one weeks vacation? Not worth it, if I wanted to spend that much I would buy in.