Renting Points and the Top of The World

[chalee94]

semi-random comment. other RCI timeshare owners are often annoyed that they are expected to pay a $95 fee (i think it's for "transportation") when they trade into a DVC resort, as timeshares don't typically charge an extra fee to exchangers (unless they'd also charge it to owners.)

DVC has also threatened owners in the past that "commercial renting" (vaguely defined as 20ish rentals per year) of DVC would not be tolerated.

DVC is a timeshare but they tend to be a little unique in how they do things...

 

[crisi]

Perks with DVC aren't contractual - they come and go. Most of them are at the whim of Parks and Resorts. If they get too expensive to administer or too expensive period - they get dropped. So as members, we tend to be a little protective - a bunch of renters insisting on perks isn't in our best interests for retaining those perks for ourselves. And most of us here use our own points at Disney. So we don't care too much about rental value.

 

[RobDoc]

...
Is it possible to point me to/post the language in your purchase documents that defines these classifications? I've reviewed my contract with the point owner, and it makes no mention of me being treated/classified differently from other occupants.

From the "Home Resort Rules and Regulations", section V, subsection 3:

3. Making Reservations for Non-Club Members
"1) Club Members may use their Home Resort Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes that will be occupied by non-Club Members.
2) When a Club Member uses his or her Home Resort Vacation Points to reserve Vacation Homes on behalf of a non-Club Member, and the Club Member does not charge any rental or other fees to the non-Club Member for the reservation, the non-Club Member is eligible for all or some of the Club Member privileges and benefits that a Club Member would normally receive during his or her stay in the reserved Vacation Home. If the non-Club Member is renting, it is the responsibility of the Member to notify Member Services when making the reservation. Member privileges and benefits cannot be extended to non-Club Members who rent Vacation Homes from Club Members."

Renters will be treated the same as any other "guest" renting a WDW resort room/villa- you will have access to Disney transportation, use of the resort facilities, Theme Park parking, resort Concierge staff services, etc, but will not have access to all privileges extanded to DVC members. You may receive some of those benefits (as alreaady mentioned and described) but may not be able to enjoy any Member benefits or perks unless a member is there with you and able to demonstrate membership using a DVC Membership card.

I'm sure you'll have a great stay with or without DVC perks.

Enjoy!

 

[Greysword]

I was trying to separate what was just fluffy language marketing material trying to make you think you bought into a special club and what was the 'legal-truth' in the nitty-gritty of DVC ownership documents. I've seen people on these boards misinformed and disappointed in their DVC membership when they realize they actually bought into a well-disguised timeshare, rather than exclusive or discount club.

This is kind of sad, as it is easy to find this "best kept secret" by doing very minimal amount of research. This is definitely a case of personal responsibility, so buyer beware, huh?

...Renters have lots of options and will only pay if the price is right, but owners are contractually obligated to pay to maintain their unit. I'd think owners would want the maximum number of possible uses of their ownership, without restrictions. The fact that renters might be treated differently than owners theoretically diminished the value of your asset since it places restrictions, though minimal, on your ownership interest.

This is a good point except one thing...BLT is within walking distance to MK.

I agree that I want to maximize our options and benefits; in fact there was thread a couple years ago discussing whether WDW would restrict members from visiting the ToTWL and use it exclusively for their own purposes. Now that it is declared as a part of the DVC inventory (i.e. BLT owners will be paying for maintenance, cleanliness, and CM salaries), I hope this does not come to fruition. That is unless we (BLT owners) get enough income from WDW Resorts department in rental income to significantly offset the annual dues (over 5M+ points) or pay for a refurb of the whole tower. Otherwise, I would prefer we keep it as our personal hide away.

 

[alice99]

If you compensate a member for a DVC Point reservation, that member is supposed to inform DVC of that. That reservation would then be coded the same as if the reservation was made thru Disney's Central Reservations. The reservation would be flagged as a cash reservation, not a DVC member reservation.

Most members don't notify DVC of the compenstation, so the reservation would still be coded as a DVC Member.

WoW, I didn't know this. Interesting information! I have rented my points to a stranger and just told MS my friend was using the room.

Though , I can't see Disney flagging it as a cash reservation, since they didn't get any cash. They are being reimbursed by DVC , in points.

 

[erionm]

WoW, I didn't know this. Interesting information! I have rented my points to a stranger and just told MS my friend was using the room.

Though , I can't see Disney flagging it as a cash reservation, since they didn't get any cash. They are being reimbursed by DVC , in points.

While they may not actually flag it as 'cash', it's coded so that it's not a member reservation. I used 'cash' as that is the general term used to describe a regular reservation made thru Disney's Central Reservations.

 

[alice99]

While they may not actually flag it as 'cash', it's coded so that it's not a member reservation. I used 'cash' as that is the general term used to describe a regular reservation made thru Disney's Central Reservations.

Thanks, very informative.

I always believed Disney frowned upon points rentals by DVC owners, so I never mentioned it was a rental.

 

[erionm]

Thanks, very informative.

I always believed Disney frowned upon points rentals by DVC owners, so I never mentioned it was a rental.

The only thing expressly forbidden is commercial renting. Many members have been incorrectly told by Member Services that renting is against their contracts when is clearly allowed based on the Home Resort Rules & Regulations.

 

[chalee94]

I always believed Disney frowned upon points rentals by DVC owners, so I never mentioned it was a rental.

the other thing is that if you are going to tell disney it's a rental and another owner will tell disney that a renter is a "guest", guess who the renter is going to want to work with if they can get a few extra perks going with the other owner?

so virtually all renters have been coded as guests in the past, which is why the distinction is still there in the documents but, for practical purposes, has largely disappeared.

 

[vacationbug]

Twinklebug brings up a good point:

GrnMtnMan, most owners are very protective of the areas of the resorts that are meant only for DVC members/guests staying on points. It was part of the DVC sales pitch and they'd like to see it's value preserved for as long as the perk may last. Please don't feel like you are being attacked for asking the question - I'm glad you asked instead of just arriving and then demanding access as some other renters may try.

The OP, GrnMntMan, had started this thread about the TOTW Lounge. Interestingly, did anyone else see this thread about the lounge in the Dining Section? http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2794558

I thought it was interesting to see the different viewpoints...

 

[Lynne M]

I'm actually quite surprised there is official rules about renting. While most timeshares have restrictions on commercial use of your ownership interest, most do not differentiate amongst unit occupants. Mostly because its bad for owners/original buyers, not renters. Renters have lots of options and will only pay if the price is right, but owners are contractually obligated to pay to maintain their unit. I'd think owners would want the maximum number of possible uses of their ownership, without restrictions. The fact that renters might be treated differently than owners theoretically diminished the value of your asset since it places restrictions, though minimal, on your ownership interest.

If what's posted regularly on these boards is any evidence, I think many DVC members prefer that renters are treated differently than owners. They like the sense of exclusivity that goes with perks like access to BLT. That perceived exclusivity is a marketing tool that Disney uses to sell memberships, and it certainly does seem to resonate with the members.

Again, going by what we see here, many members don't view their memberships as a real estate asset, and most didn't buy with the intent to rent, unless forced to by circumstances that prevent them from using their membership in a given year. It's not an investment or a money-making opportunity for them, it's a way of pre-paying for their OWN vacations. That's the way Disney sells it, and that's the way many people see it.

So I think you're looking at it from the perspective of a property owner, which is a different mindset. DVC is a temporary asset - all contracts come with an end date, at which time the ownership reverts back to Disney.

 

[DVCconvert]

....DVC is a temporary asset - all contracts come with an end date, at which time the ownership reverts back .....

This is a good metaphor for everything in life!

 

[GrnMtnMan]

If what's posted regularly on these boards is any evidence, I think many DVC members prefer that renters are treated differently than owners. They like the sense of exclusivity that goes with perks like access to BLT. That perceived exclusivity is a marketing tool that Disney uses to sell memberships, and it certainly does seem to resonate with the members.

Again, going by what we see here, many members don't view their memberships as a real estate asset, and most didn't buy with the intent to rent, unless forced to by circumstances that prevent them from using their membership in a given year. It's not an investment or a money-making opportunity for them, it's a way of pre-paying for their OWN vacations. That's the way Disney sells it, and that's the way many people see it.

So I think you're looking at it from the perspective of a property owner, which is a different mindset. DVC is a temporary asset - all contracts come with an end date, at which time the ownership reverts back to Disney.

I get all this...and I'm glad you used the soft words "sense" and "perception" because they are quite appropriate....they are both intangible feelings.

As I said in an earlier post, my main point is that I'm surprised this language is part of official policy. While timeshares absolutely are luxuries and should not be viewed as investments, the fact is many people often have to liquidate - or at least get rid of financial obligations. Disease, injury, death, divorce, unemployment are all reasons that people might not want to use their ownership interest in a given year...or ever again.

Or suppose that Comcast was successful in buying out Disney and WDW became another Six Flags.

Which is all just another way of saying that who knows what the future holds...its good to have options. By not allowing secondary owners certain options and not allowing current renters certain perks, Disney has precluded something that could be tangible (money earned from renting or selling your points) in exchange for something intangible: that feeling of exclusivity.