Rented Points - Need Help

[cm8]

My rental isn't even until Thanksgiving but I'm already anticipating a complete loss. With another surge of the virus likely in the fall, I really don't think I'll feel comfortable with being in the themeparks even if they are open. And who knows ... the parks and/or resorts could be closed again. I contacted the owner already to cancel, since the points clearly will not expire until at least December and he's not in immediate danger of losing them, but he is not willing to offer any type of refund. I would have been happy if he would just refund half of my $1,800+, but no such luck. When I asked about rescheduling sometime in 2021, he said that would be a conversation to have down the road with DVC. To be frank, he's not real concerned what happens since he has been paid in full and it's not really his problem. My biggest consideration is not the loss of money, although it hurts because I used my Christmas bonus to pay for this reservation ... ouch! My main concern is my 75-year-old mother who has COPD and lives with me ... I could not be selfish enough to take a vacation and put her at risk. God forbid I contracted the virus and gave it to her ... she likely wouldn't survive.

Most of us renters are obviously looking for a deal. I'm a single mom and I can't afford to pay those crazy high rack rates to stay at AKL with a savanna view. So we take a chance and roll the dice, and most of the time it works out well. I've rented in the past from an owner on eBay at OKW, and a few times from Wyndham owners at Bonnet Creek. This was my first time renting through an owner on this forum and truly I am not angry with him, although I do think if I were in his position I would at least refund half. Since he owns over 500 points at AKL he probably is in a better financial situation than me, but even so, he is not obligated to do anything. I totally get it, but it is highly unlikely I will rent DVC, or any timeshare, again in the future.

With all this said, I will count myself as fortunate if I get through this pandemic with only the loss of a Christmas bonus and a missed Disney trip. Many have, and will, lose so much more. It's always good to keep things in perspective my fellow Disney fans. All of you, be well.

I’m sorry. We are all not cut from the same cloth. I hope something can be worked out to save your money and your trip.

 

[marvfool1]

There’s always 3 sides to every story:
But as an owner that rents points this sounds pretty suspect to me.
IF they expire in May 2020 the RIGHT thing to do is to use the following UY points for your reservation.
I highly doubt DVC is going to leave us owners high and dry for points/reservations impacted due to COVID-19. A decision has not been made yet for expiring points, See the official DVC response below:

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/travel-information/
Karma is a B, but until she catches up, please Name the member on this thread or the DVC rental thread to warn future/potential renters.

I have points in Limbo, if you like, reach out to me via DM for status of the official DVC response on expiring points.

Good luck.

 

[Judique]

I hope that in the future people here on the DIS will stop mentioning renting points as some great, low-risk, money-saving choice for naive vacationers who post asking how best to spend their lodging dollars.<<<<<<<<<<snip snip>>>>>>>>>>>>
It doesn't matter whose fault it is that the reservation can't be fulfilled. It's nonrefundable. It'd be nice if some of the owners split the difference with their renters, but I understand why many can't or won't. The risk of renting is all on the renter, and that should be made absolutely clear in the future.

Edited to fix typo

I won't stop mentioning it. It still is a great way to save money. DVC has existed for many years and renting points has been overall a very good way for Owners and Renters to get value and the DVC contract specifically allows it.

As for the word 'NONREFUDABLE'. You can print that in contracts all you like, but if the goods aren't delivered there is a very real possibility that the contract is void at that point.

Ask the Airlines about that. They are really busy right now returning nonrefundable fares and fees and trying to give vouchers instead.

The risks of renting are shared by the owner and the renter. There have been incidents where the renter got their room and trashed it, leaving a bill for the owner to pay and recoup from the renter.

 

[Raven01]

Fwiw, I rented points for September from someone on these boards. I checked with her, she is working with me, and it continues to be a pleasant experience. Not all owners are being difficult.

No one plans for these situations. You apply the law but everyone is losing. I think in the event the trip is lost, it’s fair to everyone to split the loss. But that’s just me.

 

[CarolMN]

.......(snip)........Karma is a B, but until she catches up, please Name the member on this thread or the DVC rental thread to warn future/potential renters.........(snip)......

The DIS does not allow this. Mods have no way to verify this type of post and do not want to get involved in these situations for obvious reasons.

 

[Disneybuckeye]

This is just one of the many reasons why I would have to be in a really desperate place to rent any of my points. To me not refundable or changeable is very clear. That is why you save so much money because of the risks involved. Obtainiing another reservation would most likely be very difficult if not impossible at this time. If they already gave the rental money to Disney to help early pay of financing they may not be able to refund. If a rental is not refundable it should not matter if the points are at the end of their use life.

I agree it is sad people are losing money, but calling out owners who did what they were paid to do is wrong in my opinion.

 

[LawrenceFamily]

If you are renting DVC points and don't take insurance then that's the main issue here.
If you were insured then there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Upatnoon]

The renting of points is just semantics. Non-DVC owners don't call up Disney and make a reservation with points they rented. What you are really "renting" is a reservation at a DVC resort.

If a reservation can't be provided, the DVC owner should return the money.

The issues here aren't just being faced in the DVC rental market. Lots of people rent lots of different timeshares and resorts, There are many angry owners who don't want to give up the "nonrefundable" earnings and equally angry users who don't want to pay for vacations they can't go on because of COVID shutdowns.

In the end, because reservations and points and whatnot are perishable, someone is going to lose money. No one wants to lose money.

 

[Raven01]

If you are renting DVC points and don't take insurance then that's the main issue here.
If you were insured then there wouldn't be a problem.

Others have stated insurance does not cover pandemics. I’m not sure it helps this particular scenario.

 

[luvthatmouseinohio]

Others have stated in surname does not cover pandemics. I’m not sure it helps this particular scenario.

Did you by chance purchase good travel insurance for this trip? If there isn't a resort closure by then, some insurance policies would cover at least portions of the nonrefundable costs (the cancel for any reason type). With an elderly parent having underlying conditions, lots of other things can potentially go wrong even without COVID-19. Best of luck and hope everything works out for you and your family.

LAX

Unfortunately I did not, although I'm not sure it would have done much good. Many policies don't cover pandemics at all and definitely not because of fear of travel. The "cancel for any reason" policies must be obtained within a short window of time from when the first deposit (in my case the entire cost) is paid. My reservation was made on January 19 so that window is long gone. Of course it's impossible to get coverage now since this virus is a known event. This has been a lesson learned for sure ... and you are definitely right about any future travel plans I make due to having an aging parent.

 

[Noodlez]

Others have stated insurance does not cover pandemics. I’m not sure it helps this particular scenario.

Some insurance doesn't cover pandemics, but some do. All policies have inclusions and exclusions and we all have to decide how much we want to pay and the risks we're willing to take.
I'm not trying to 'blame' those who don't have this cover, and I feel sorry for anyone who loses over this, but I just don't want think people to think that it's not available! We were fortunate that the last time we renewed our travel insurance we added on for just about every eventuality!
It would be very hard to purchase it at the moment, as insurance companies won't cover things after the fact, but people should be aware for bookings in the future.

 

[bcuinohio]

I have rented points from a friend on three occasions. He explained to me how points work and I better be certain before I had him book a room. He said that he might be able to change the dates but the points had an expiration date. To me, it was the same as non refundable hotel room. You can save money but there is a risk involved.

 

[Frustrated renter]

I have rented points from a friend on three occasions. He explained to me how points work and I better be certain before I had him book a room. He said that he might be able to change the dates but the points had an expiration date. To me, it was the same as non refundable hotel room. You can save money but there is a risk involved.

Not a great analogy as no one will argue that a hotel that sells you a prepaid non-refundable hotel room gets to keep the money if they don’t provide the room on the day in question.

 

[LawrenceFamily]

Not a great analogy as no one will argue that a hotel that sells you a prepaid non-refundable hotel room gets to keep the money if they don’t provide the room on the day in question.

It's exactly the same. Renters who rent DVC points know it is non-refundable, in the same way people who book a hotel that is non-refundable, know that in any event that they are unable to go, they will not get their money back.

If cancelled, a hotel could re-sell that room to someone else, the same way that an airline could re-sell a seat on a plane at last minute if it was cancelled. In both scenarios the original booker didn't receive a refund. As a DVC owner, if the booking was cancelled within 4 months of the UY ending and they cannot re-sell/use it, they have lost the points. It's not the renters fault in this scenario, but it definitely isn't the owners fault either.

 

[bcuinohio]

Not a great analogy as no one will argue that a hotel that sells you a prepaid non-refundable hotel room gets to keep the money if they don’t provide the room on the day in question.

I see your point since WDW cancelled the reservation. My post was more pointed at someone deciding to cancel at the last minute and expecting a refund.

 

[Minniesgal]

Umm, no. They are not. If anything, they are under-reported.

The renting of points is just semantics. Non-DVC owners don't call up Disney and make a reservation with points they rented. What you are really "renting" is a reservation at a DVC resort.

If a reservation can't be provided, the DVC owner should return the money.

The issues here aren't just being faced in the DVC rental market. Lots of people rent lots of different timeshares and resorts, There are many angry owners who don't want to give up the "nonrefundable" earnings and equally angry users who don't want to pay for vacations they can't go on because of COVID shutdowns.

In the end, because reservations and points and whatnot are perishable, someone is going to lose money. No one wants to lose money.

Seems to me the only fair thing would be for those loses to be shared. No fault loss a bit like knock for knock in car insurance costs split equally.

 

[crisi]

The DIS does not allow this. Mods have no way to verify this type of post and do not want to get involved in these situations for obvious reasons.

Sort of like Disney itself. The last thing they want to pay people to do is get into the middle of this sort of thing. There is absolutely no upside for them.

As to some of the other points made here - we had non-refundable hotel reservations for April - not at Disney. They are non-refundable. We are just out that cash. The hotels have said they will perhaps be able to offer vouchers for a future trip - within six months - should we be able to travel - but no promises on any point after that or if that will actually happen - its a maybe. They are small boutique hotels that may not be in business after having to close for months. So these are not the only non-refundable "sorry, you are out of luck" reservations happening right now.

Many owners who rent points are renting their points because they need the money. They can't refund your money - its been spent paying their mortgage or their kid's college tuition. They can't give you next years points - they are hoping to rent those to cover dues and put a little cash in their pockets. Some of those people are facing job loses now. Just as you can't afford to lose the cash and chose to rent points because its cheaper, they elected to rent out their points because they needed the cash. Most of us have gone out of our way over the years to point out one of the issues with DVC rentals are that they are usually non-refundable - for any reason. Funeral, pregnancy, illness...or yes, parks closing.

You got a great deal because there was risk. Caveat Emptor.

 

[crisi]

Seems to me the only fair thing would be for those loses to be shared. No fault loss a bit like knock for knock in car insurance costs split equally.

Doesn't seem fair to me at all....when I rented my points to you, I moved the risk associated from me to you. Its your problem now. If there weren't any risk, I would have been charging a lot more for those points.

 

[cmrdgrs]

It is unusual that an owner discloses this, so I wouldn't expect it happened.

I agree, I don't think disclosing use year would be necessary or typical in most rental situations. I would just have an open conversation with the owner. This scenario is pretty unprecedented and I doubt would be addressed in any contract, but I would read whatever contract you have and see how you two can work together. If an end of May trip is undoable for you, can you offer up another solution that works for the both of you? It's really a sucky place for the both of you and again a pitfall for renting as most are simply no refunds.

I think you are correct. Most owners do not disclose this information, however, some do and some discuss the risk of renting banked points with renters too.

 

[crisi]

I think you are correct. Most owners do not disclose this information, however, some do and some discuss the risk of renting banked points with renters too.

Anyone who does sufficient research pre-rental to put needed money into a DVC rental would discover all of these points. They are regularly discussed on this board. They are regularly brought up when people ask what are the risks with rentals. There are a few of us who even hit the resorts boards and the budget board to point out these problems when people recommend DVC rentals as a cheap way to do Disney. Again, Caveat Emptor. Renters - unless their contract states otherwise - need to understand they booked a non-refundable room. Not "refundable if a terrorist attack hits and Cinderella's Castle is a pile of rubble." On the other end owners need to take some responsibility to understand that they bought a real estate interest and that they may not get made whole at the end of this - its in your contract - right down to Disney may not operate the parks and if there is a disaster, Disney may not choose to rebuild the resorts.