Removing rooms from DVC inventory - WHY?

[d-r]

Those rooms are available to members, for cash. The issue is that they non longer belong to DVC but to DVD, technically a different company and system. DVC does make some of those available for cash in advance, even with a discount. DVC could not make those rooms available for points because cash has to be generated for those rooms. Otherwise, the entire cash equivilent exchange system is shot. DVC could simply do away with the points for cash option but the reality is that this would really not be any better as most of the rooms not booked would still be off season.

I understand that cash must be generated to cover points that were turned over. But I don't see why it has to be that specific room at that specific time. If the room is turned over to CRO for cash reservations and no one pays cash for it, then it is empty and isn't generating any cash. At some point, if no one has rented it for cash why not turn it back over to the wait list and let that room on those dates go to a member for points, and make a new room on new dates in the future available for cash to cover the points that were cashed out.

I guess I don't understand what happens in this type of scenario: Someone uses SSR points to stay at the sagamore. So DVC turns over the number of nights that match those points to be rented out for cash. That cash is then used to pay the Sagamore, that's how I understand it. But then, what if that room at SSR goes vacant and no one rents it during that time frame. No cash has been made to pay the Sagamore. Is a new time frame at SSR now given over to CRO to try and rent and make cash on? What happens when CRO gives a discount on the SSR room. Or somebody books it during free dining or whatever as part of package. I don't see the math being very straight forward.

OK, now say that no one has booked that room in SSR that was turned over for cash. Say a member is on the wait list for a room at SSR, why not give that room back to dvc to put that member in. They aren't making any cash on it if it is sitting empty. The member staying there frees up points from being used later so another time frame could be turned over to CRO to recoup the cash.

I don't know, maybe I'm just a moron but I don't really get what happens when a room is turned over for cash and then sits empty.

 

[Dean]

I understand that cash must be generated to cover points that were turned over. But I don't see why it has to be that specific room at that specific time. If the room is turned over to CRO for cash reservations and no one pays cash for it, then it is empty and isn't generating any cash. At some point, if no one has rented it for cash why not turn it back over to the wait list and let that room on those dates go to a member for points, and make a new room on new dates in the future available for cash to cover the points that were cashed out.

What you are suggesting would be far worse. In effect, those points would be used to book 2, 3 or more rooms that come out of points inventory if not rented. Once those points go to DVD, they are no longer even linked to DVC directly. Trust me when I say that those cash rooms will go empty if rented. They wouldn't even let you have those at 4 pm the day of check in. The only "cash" inventory that DVC has any control over is the breakage inventory. Now DVD could choose to turn over rooms that would go unused if they wanted, but it would be contrary to the way they are set up and I don't know any timeshare that does it this way. One thing they could do but haven't, is do developer deposits with II. Take those points and reserve a week then either give it to II to use for members exchangeing in OR use it for cash rentals through II. Timeshares usually do this to get fresh meat and they push those exchangers pretty hard to schedule a timeshare tour. Most contact each and every guest to try to schedule, many make it part of the check in process and make it difficult to say no. And that includes owners, not just new guests. Some also do promo's where you pay a cheap price for 2 to 5 nights with the requirement of doing a timeshare tour else you have to pay rack rates in the end.

OK, now say that no one has booked that room in SSR that was turned over for cash. Say a member is on the wait list for a room at SSR, why not give that room back to dvc to put that member in. They aren't making any cash on it if it is sitting empty. The member staying there frees up points from being used later so another time frame could be turned over to CRO to recoup the cash.

The answer is related to the above one. Certainly it would be a good idea but one that most timeshares don't do this and most, apparently including DVC, don't have a mechanism to do so.

I guess I don't understand what happens in this type of scenario: Someone uses SSR points to stay at the sagamore. So DVC turns over the number of nights that match those points to be rented out for cash. That cash is then used to pay the Sagamore, that's how I understand it. But then, what if that room at SSR goes vacant and no one rents it during that time frame. No cash has been made to pay the Sagamore. Is a new time frame at SSR now given over to CRO to try and rent and make cash on? What happens when CRO gives a discount on the SSR room. Or somebody books it during free dining or whatever as part of package. I don't see the math being very straight forward.

It's the overall $$$ that are the issue. DVC doesn't reserve one room or the exact number of nights as your reservation to give for that payment. They pool the points and reserve rooms of various sizes and times based on their reservation parameters at the time. They must follow the same rules that you and I do including the 7/11 month windows and the same cancellation policies. So it's not a single unit used to pay for each exchange but the OVERALL cash generated. If they fall short, they reevaluate their process and/or raise points requirements so they can get more rooms to rent out. If some rent and some don't, it really doesn't matter as long as they get the total dollars needed to pay for the program itself overall. My info suggests they rent out about 75% of the rooms gotten in this way and that CRO takes a cut, I've heard both 35% and 50%. Any discount comes off the take for everyone. If CRO gives a 50% discount, that reduces their take and DVD's or DVC's depending on the pool the points came from.

I don't know, maybe I'm just a moron but I don't really get what happens when a room is turned over for cash and then sits empty.

It's an age old timeshare question. I think you believe it's a real problem and that's where you are getting hung up. DVC and DVC don't really care if a single unit goes empty and they don't want to put too much flexibility into the system from that standpoint, at least from the staff standpoint. They want systems they can reproduce and hold people accountable to. Any system that allows the CM to change things around on they fly is also subject to abuse such that any shady or unscrupulous CM could work it to their or a friends advantage. That's why CM can't rent out their points, they have an unfair advantage on booking units. And while I know many would disagree, every points system i know of is counting on at least a small percentage of people not being able to use their points and thus they expire unused.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I understand that cash must be generated to cover points that were turned over. But I don't see why it has to be that specific room at that specific time.

It isn't any particular room that is turned over. It is points that are turned over to be sold for cash. I assure you it is not a specific room at a specific time.

What we don't know, and is really complex, is how DVC manages these points and makes them available for purchase in the form of rooms.

For me, logic would say... all points are put into one large inventory and follow their original owner's 11/7 schedule. So, in other words the VB points could be used for BWV inventory according to the 11/7 restrictions just as the original owner could make ressies. This of course doubles the complexity of the original point management system, but should be doable.

However, my sense is that the points are kept and sold for the home resort only.

In either case, ultimately, it really is a fair system and doesn't discrimminate or cause any disparity vs. owner used points.

Part of the confusion is caused by our terminology like "Cash Rooms" or "Cash Room Inventory". These are misnomers, because the cash buyer is in fact buying points that are then input into the reservation system to reserve the room of interest.

 

[d-r]

All right, thanks for the two posts. I see what you are saying. Not sure that I 100% understand it, but it makes sense to me that the points are "pooled" and cash reservations offered.

It isn't any particular room that is turned over. It is points that are turned over to be sold for cash. I assure you it is not a specific room at a specific time.

but that's the thing I'm stuck on, if it isn't a particular room at a particular time, then when a room has been turned over for cash and hasn't been rented, why can't it be used by a member on a waitlist.

Honestly though, you don't have to go into it more for me, I'm at the point where it sort of makes sense but I'm still stuck on it so I'll let it go.

I think you believe it's a real problem and that's where you are getting hung up

Yeah, you are right. There was a time we wanted to add on a night that wasn't available for points but was for cash. We ended up getting a much cheaper flight by adding a day. I guess it just nags me that it couldn't be done with points. It just seems to me that giving it for points would be better than letting it set empty. I tell myself that a room needs a "rest" for cleaning, repair, and that makes it OK, and I figure that when people get those last minute check-in switches it was from a room not being used if available.

I've noticed a real push to CRO to rent out rooms at SSR and OKW for cash, and I figure that is because there are more rooms and there are still points for sell at SSR and the last time we stayed at OKW they were promoting resales there so I guess there is a pool of points there as well.

 

[Dean]

All right, thanks for the two posts. I see what you are saying. Not sure that I 100% understand it, but it makes sense to me that the points are "pooled" and cash reservations offered.



but that's the thing I'm stuck on, if it isn't a particular room at a particular time, then when a room has been turned over for cash and hasn't been rented, why can't it be used by a member on a waitlist.

Honestly though, you don't have to go into it more for me, I'm at the point where it sort of makes sense but I'm still stuck on it so I'll let it go.

As I said, they could but they won't. And we don't want them to because we don't want them booking a room now then later freeing up those points and reusing them. I believe you're thinking they should do so but I don't agree. Remember they are generally not booking the higher demand times overall. For any sold out DVC timeshare, there really should be about 98% occupancy year around, if not, someone's losing their points.

Yeah, you are right. There was a time we wanted to add on a night that wasn't available for points but was for cash. We ended up getting a much cheaper flight by adding a day. I guess it just nags me that it couldn't be done with points. It just seems to me that giving it for points would be better than letting it set empty. I tell myself that a room needs a "rest" for cleaning, repair, and that makes it OK, and I figure that when people get those last minute check-in switches it was from a room not being used if available.

I've noticed a real push to CRO to rent out rooms at SSR and OKW for cash, and I figure that is because there are more rooms and there are still points for sell at SSR and the last time we stayed at OKW they were promoting resales there so I guess there is a pool of points there as well.

DVC owns a lot of units at SSR not yet declared into inventory and a lot of points bought back under ROFR at both resorts. This is a source of cash as well for DVD to offset some of their costs. It sounds like you're approaching this as many members do, from an emotional standpoint. To a degree I understand the frustration when what you want is available cash but not points but once one understands the system it is easier to rationalize. DVC could take the top units at 11 months if they wanted, they have chosen not to approach it that way.

 

[BroganMc]

For any sold out DVC timeshare, there really should be about 98% occupancy year around, if not, someone's losing their points.

Dean, is this "occupancy" recorded similarly to how they do baseball and football attendance? They count points redeemed rather than actual check-ins? That way even if the points are traded out for Collection stays, cruises or II exchanges they are still registered as "used".

I know in football all PSL owners are required to buy tickets to pre-season games as part of the package; but not all show. So you can have an announced attendance of 70,000 and the stands are only half-filled.

 

[Dean]

Dean, is this "occupancy" recorded similarly to how they do baseball and football attendance? They count points redeemed rather than actual check-ins? That way even if the points are traded out for Collection stays, cruises or II exchanges they are still registered as "used".

I know in football all PSL owners are required to buy tickets to pre-season games as part of the package; but not all show. So you can have an announced attendance of 70,000 and the stands are only half-filled.

My understanding is they do not play those games. In hotel terms, occupancy is a room in use whether it's 1 or 12 people. I think the term they use for the number of people is density. But occupancy would not depend on WHO used the room, only if it were used. I'm sure DVC tracks how members use their points and when. While I've heard bits and pieces of this info, I've never heard enough or seen anything specific enough to know trends. At least other than the II and BVTC trading as DVC must audit and disclose those items. Up until the mid 1990's they had to do the same with occupancy but I can't seem to find the one item I had about that subject as this changed somewhere around 1996 and not that long after we joined (resale 1994).