Religious Services end at the Polynesian

[ducklite]

Originally posted by MrShiny
"Too large" is a poor excuse as well. Why then not just move them to the balllroom at the Contemporary where htey were holding services on the major holidays?

Because that is RENTED for receptions, conventions, meetings and such. What are you going to do...tell the vendors taht rent booth space at conventions taht they need to tear down their booths for Sunday mornings so they can have servces? Right.

They could do it for Christmas and Easter as those were not days that the center would have been rented.

Sorry, but as a practicing Catholic I have to say "take responsibility for yourself". Disney is under no obligation to provide services for you. Period. Take cab, rent a car, take Mears, what ever. But get over it.

Anne

 

[snowwhitemom]

 

[MrShiny]

Originally posted by ducklite


Because that is RENTED for receptions, conventions, meetings and such. What are you going to do...tell the vendors taht rent booth space at conventions taht they need to tear down their booths for Sunday mornings so they can have servces? Right.

They could do it for Christmas and Easter as those were not days that the center would have been rented.

Sorry, but as a practicing Catholic I have to say "take responsibility for yourself". Disney is under no obligation to provide services for you. Period. Take cab, rent a car, take Mears, what ever. But get over it.

Anne

Anne, you are missing the point. It's not that Disney was under any obligation to provide this service, but thy made a smart decision by doing it. It kept people onsite, which is the whole business model of Walt Disney World - keep the guest on property as much as possible to keep then spending money on Disney.

Taking away this convenience forces those who wish to follow the law of Catholic faith to go offsite.

True, there probably would be scheduling conflicts wth the convention centers, but I wonder how many use that ballroom on Sunday (including those still set up there). I don't know, but I wouldn't think it woul be so many that blocking that time off would loose much business.

Regardless, Disney seems to be back peddaling now in a move that I would think could cost them more money than just maintaining what was the status quo. Here is the email I just got from Mary Queen of the Universe:

<blockquote>
Dear Jeff,

It is true that there will no longer be a mass at the Polynesian resort.
Walt Disney World felt it would be more comfortable for people to
attend mass in a church. As a result, they are providing buses to
transport their guests to the Shrine. If you wish to use Disney's bus
service on your next visit, simply inquire at the guest service desk of
your Disney hotel.

Thank you for your inquiry,
Valerie
Mary, Queen of the Universe Shrine
</blockquote>

It seems they may be betting that most guests who would have gone to the Poly won't take advantage (or won't know) about this new service.

Of course, I'm assuming much here in the absense of even a statement from Disney.

Still is just seems like a bad business move. Anything that drie people offsite probably won't pay for itself in the long run.

 

[reggie92762]

Thank you Mr. Shiny...you said it all!!!!!

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by MrShiny

Taking away this convenience forces those who wish to follow the law of Catholic faith to go offsite.

You are missing the point--lots of people have left the property for years for services. Christians are NOT the only faith on the earth. My guess is that 80% of the people will just skip church, and of the other 20%, at least half will have thir own transportation.

And you are wrong about the convention center space, most convention load in begins Saturday afternoon and continues through Sunday.

Anne

 

[DisneyHumbug]

Disney isn't supplying the buses - Mears is for $10 per person!!!!

 

[MrShiny]

Originally posted by ducklite



You are missing the point--lots of people have left the property for years for services. Christians are NOT the only faith on the earth. My guess is that 80% of the people will just skip church, and of the other 20%, at least half will have thir own transportation.

And you are wrong about the convention center space, most convention load in begins Saturday afternoon and continues through Sunday.

Anne

Let me state it a different way. There were hundreds of people who were coming to the Poly every week. Now those same people will have to go off site to get what they require. That seems like very bad business, especially when the costs are probably low.

True, there are many faiths whose followers have had no option but to leave property. However, many of those faiths do not have the same obligation that Catholics do to attend a mass each week under pain of mortal sin.

I'm not questioning that conventions load in over the weekend - I'm questioning how many conventions the Fantasia ballroom hosts. By this I mean shows that would require it to be set up in a way inconsistent with Mass (that is, if it is set up with a large numbe of seats facing a dias, there should be no problem accomadating a Mass).

Look, Disney is under no obligation to do many of the things it does. But many of those things are aimed at enhancing the guest experience and keeping people onsite.

I just think that in the long run cutting these things will generate short term savings at the expense of long term losses as people have fewer reasons to stay onsite.

 

[Greg K.]

Of the hundreds who flocked to the Poly for religious services every Sunday, a fair number of them probably lingered for breakfast or coffee or to browse the shops.

Now those people are being actively encouraged to go elsewhere. They are being directed to a nearby shrine with a large (and very inviting) gift shop.

They are being directed off property, where they will drive past other restaurants...and maybe get a hankering for IHOP pancakes after mass.

Any way you slice it -- measured in public relations, or in dollars and cents --this is a bad business decision.

 

[anniet]

Has anybody considered for a minute, that a large gathering of Christians, mostly Americans on Vacation in Walt Disney World, of all places, in the United States of America could present a tempting target for a terrorist attack?

Maybe I'm being Alarmist here, but I was in WDW on 9/11 and when the parks closed, I wondered what my risks were. The thought did cross my mind that I was in one of those places that seems so hated by terrorist groups. Since then Disney has been stepping up their security and safety measures, and while it saddens me, in a way I'm glad. I returned to the parks on 9/12 and they were ill prepared to provide the security measures that seem to be required now.

Perhaps, Disney wasn't making a Business decision. Perhaps safety was their concern.

I must say that I too am disappointed with the cancellation of masses, but unfortunately it's a whole new world.

 

[pooh6890]

Mr Shiny.........Pain of Mortal Sin? For not going to church on one Sunday out of your vacation? I do believe it's time to move this discussion to the Debate board where it belongs Moderators.............

 

[reggie92762]

Thank you AnnieT for another twist to this. Your thoughts were caring and insightful...

 

[Greg K.]

Pooh 6890:

It is part of Catholic teaching that if a Catholic willingly chooses to miss mass on Sunday, it is a grave sin.

If he or she is unable to attend mass -- for extenuating circumstances, such as ill health or lack of transportation -- a prayer service, with readings and reflections, CAN, under certain circumstances, be an acceptable substitute.

 

[pooh6890]

Then I suggest you plan your vacation from Monday to Saturday if there are no services available on Sunday at the Poly. I don't want to debate this with you. As I said, Disney has no obligation to provide such services and there is still plenty of available churches all over Orlando if you feel the need to attend such services. Like Ducklite said, get over it already.

 

[MrShiny]

Hello - the point is it's bad business. They are giving people a reason to go off site. So schedule a Monday-Saturday trip? Fine - then they are giving people a reason to limit their vacations.

The point is Disney should be not be driving guests off site!

Does anyone disagree with that?

And I didn't mention pain of mortal sin to spark debates - it's merely a fact of the Catholic faith. True there can be extenuating circumstances, but having to drive off site probably wouldn't qualify. It's just a fact that a Catholic of age who misses Mass on Sunday is under mortal sin (which can be absolved by the sacrament of reconcilliation). There's nothing to debate, that's just Catholic law. There is a commandment to keep holy the sabbath, and the Church has decreed that means attending Mass on Sunday. If you don't, then you broke a commandment, which has the same weight as breaking any of the other 9. Without reconcilliation, it is mortal - that is it kills your soul. You can call this whatever you like, but that is what we believe.

As to security, that seems rather week, especailly as a Catholic or Christian gathering would really have no added significance to those who initiatied 9/11, and there are times at Disney World that far more people gather (fireworks, parades, etc.)

The point is it's bad business. They have decreased the value of what they offer (if even to only a few hundred people a week) while not reducng cost. So for those who went to the Poly mass or service, they now have less value in their Disney World stay for the same money.

Further, they have an incentive to leave property.

Here's a similar case. The hotels of Vegas comp big gamblers to get them to spend more time (and hence money) at their resort. If they were to stop this, don't you think those gamblers might find less value? Don't you think they might stay a little less (and hence spend a little less)? In the long run, don't you think eliminating those comps would cost the resort money?

 

[gepetto]

I think it's just another one of Disney's many cutbacks. Over the past year they have cut out EE and reduced park hours. There are fewer E-ticket nights, parades and fireworks shows. Yet, most people continue to stay onsite. I don't think that cutting out religious services will drive a great number of people offsite.

 

[MrShiny]

Originally posted by gepetto
I think it's just another one of Disney's many cutbacks. Over the past year they have cut out EE and reduced park hours. There are fewer E-ticket nights, parades and fireworks shows. Yet, most people continue to stay onsite. I don't think that cutting out religious services will drive a great number of people offsite.

I don't think that's true - aren't there only about 30,000 room onsite? I would thnk that most times of the year there are many more people in the parks than would fit in those rooms.

Anyone have numbers?

You certainly can't go by just this year - many of those vacations were planned before any cutbacks and many of those vactioners might not even know about them unil they arrive. I think if they continue and don't reverse this trend, people will be spending fewer and fewer days onsite.

Time will tell, but I don't think sacrificing value usually pays for itself.

 

[gepetto]

Originally posted by MrShiny


I don't think that's true - aren't there only about 30,000 room onsite? I would thnk that most times of the year there are many more people in the parks than would fit in those rooms.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I meant that people that would NORMALLY stay onsite continue to do so....even with the cutbacks.

 

[FunkyLamb]

This isn't WDWs doing. It's the Catholic Church and it's not about a shortage of priests. It's about money.

There has been a bit of bad blood for a number of years between the Catholic Church. A few years back, the church basically forbid their priests from doing wedding ceremonies on property. I spoke with a nun who was a spokesperson at the time and she told me it had to do with the fact that there wasn't a consecrated church. "A-ha!", I said, "What about the Sunday services at the Polynesian Resort?". She had no answer.

After digging around a little bit more, my conclusion was the following. The Catholic church would much rather see Catholics go to their 'turf', drop some money in the collection baskets and make a little more cash than trucking over to WDW and basically doing the service for nothing. I know this sounds really jaded, but I do believe that it all boils down to that.

As for the other faiths. I don't know. Maybe Disney felt compelled to eliminate them all to avoid any ill feelings. It is all kind of silly to me.

 

[Greg K.]

...I dunno 'bout that. It's perhaps a combination of factors.

Here's my little Disney wedding story.

In 1996, my wife and I wanted to renew our wedding vows at WDW for our 10th wedding anniversary. Not get married, just renew our vows. We inquired at the diocese about finding a priest to do just that.

The response: no. The diocese considers the atmosphere at Disney World to be inappropriate for an event as sacred and important as a wedding. (They have a point, actually, when you get right down to it. It IS an amusement park, after all.)

I tried to impress upon them that this was a RENEWAL OF VOWS, not an original wedding. They were unfazed.

So the Disney wedding planners found a very nice Methodist minister who performed a renewal of vows for us, in the garden at the Yacht Club. We'd have preferred a Catholic priest, but c'est la vie.

 

[gepetto]

Funkylamb...what is the "Scrotum of Knowledge" and why do you worship it?

Just curious.