Religious Discussion Welcome Thread

[disneymom3]

As my final post here...

Christ said to share in communion, sharing bread and wine, in remembrance... to remember the sacrifice that he has paid for us.

My question, which is unanswered, still stands... Just where in the Bible does Christ state his will that there should be an ordained reverend/pastor/minister of a church organization to have the power to actually call for the transformation of the wafers and juice and to administer it to only those who are deemed acceptable?

There ya go. That is the question I don't think any of us could figure out you were asking. And I can't tell ya. My guess is that no it is not in the Bible. I am not Catholic anymore, however, in our ELCA church, only the pastors prepare communion and we don't believe in transubstantiation. There is one reference in the Bible that made me go "aha" in reference to confessing your sins to a priest. Not a clear statement but I could see where they got the conclusion from.

Respectfully asking, do you have any form of communion and who administers it?

 

[Buckalew11]

I believe it talks about confessing your sins one to another. It also says there is no more need for a high priest that Jesus Christ, by death and resurrection is now your High Priest. I am not sure about it saying anything about confessing to a priest per say but maybe someone knows a verse that does.
I don't have a problem with Catholics confessing to a priest but I know I sure couldn't/wouldn't (w/ all my bad deeds, ya know--sorry, inside joke). It would be very hard to come clean to another human being about every sin you commit or commit by omission. As far as communion, as I have stated before, I just find it hard to believe that people actually believe that wafer becomes Jesus' flesh and they can actually eat it. If I really, whole heartedly believed that, then I just couldn't do it. But I don't say that to be rude or anything--I'm just telling the truth. I think I'd have to tell myself it does not become flesh until it hits my stomach or something. I am sure that the words repeated from the Bible saying, "This is my flesh..." would have people hearing about the followers rumored as cannibals but I'm not sure that makes it right. But if you believe that and can do it, good for you. I can't.
Interesting thread to read though.

 

[goofygirl]

Speaking of confession, what exactly goes on in that confessional? What little I do know of confession is what I've seen on tv and film.

I know the priest (who you can see, but he can't see you, right?) says something like "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..." and then you say, "Bless me Father for I have sinned, its been ___ days since my last confession..." then you confess the sins, then the priest says something about absolution and gives a penace ("Say 72 Hail Marys... or whatever) and then...what? Do you say "thank you" or "Amen" at the end? I really have no idea! I know you are supposed to confess every week, and confess before receiving the Eucharist, is that correct?

And why is it that only a priest can grant you absolution?

 

[Rella Bella]

Speaking of confession, what exactly goes on in that confessional? What little I do know of confession is what I've seen on tv and film. I know the priest (who you can see, but he can't see you, right?) says something like "In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit..." and then you say, "Bless me Father for I have sinned, its been ___ days since my last confession..." then you confess the sins, then the priest says something about absolution and gives a penace ("Say 72 Hail Marys... or whatever) and then...what? Do you say "thank you" or "Amen" at the end? I really have no idea! I know you are supposed to confess every week, and confess before receiving the Eucharist, is that correct? And why is it that only a priest can grant you absolution?

Well, that is quite a lot to cover... but since you seem sincerely curious:
Some Catholics still do confession that way. Others do it face to face with the priest, and somewhat more 'casual' (for lack of a better word). Many times we come together, a full congregation, with 5 to 8 priests. After we pray & sing together we take turns going to individual priests in different parts of the room and talk with them one on one. Those who are waiting thier turn, or have finished, either sing, worship or pray quietly. The Priest may ask you questions to get a better understanding of your situation. Confession is followed by the priest offering you counsel on ways to overcome the sin or sins that concern you. He may also ask you to pray... it may officially be termed penance but the term isn't used much. When we are together as a congregation, we also do these prayer together at the end of the service.

Only God forgives sins. The priest is simply His representative... like (not literally) God with flesh on. Jesus gave authority to His disciples to (among other things) 'forgive sins', we believe this 'authority' has been passed down by the laying on of hands, generation by generation. I doubt protestants would agree... I think they believe this 'authority' has passed to 'all true believers', so they confess sins directly to God... or talk to any other Christian.

I read somewhere that very early in the begining of the church, Christians were required to confess sins to the entire congregation. (Yikes!) It went on to say it was out of compassion that the priest started doing it in private. I don't remember where I read that so I can't actually defend it... I don't even know if it's true Catholic thought... just thought it was interesting.
Well, I wanted to take a stab at this... maybe another Catholic can do a better job of explaining but that's kind of a nutshell.

 

[phillybeth]

As my final post here...

You keep on saying that word, final. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[goofygirl]

Well, that is quite a lot to cover... but since you seem sincerely curious:
Some Catholics still do confession that way. Others do it face to face with the priest, and somewhat more 'casual' (for lack of a better word). Many times we come together, a full congregation, with 5 to 8 priests. After we pray & sing together we take turns going to individual priests in different parts of the room and talk with them one on one. Those who are waiting thier turn, or have finished, either sing, worship or pray quietly. The Priest may ask you questions to get a better understanding of your situation. Confession is followed by the priest offering you counsel on ways to overcome the sin or sins that concern you. He may also ask you to pray... it may officially be termed penance but the term isn't used much. When we are together as a congregation, we also do these prayer together at the end of the service.

Only God forgives sins. The priest is simply His representative... like (not literally) God with flesh on. Jesus gave authority to His disciples to (among other things) 'forgive sins', we believe this 'authority' has been passed down by the laying on of hands, generation by generation. I doubt protestants would agree... I think they believe this 'authority' has passed to 'all true believers', so they confess sins directly to God... or talk to any other Christian.

I read somewhere that very early in the begining of the church, Christians were required to confess sins to the entire congregation. (Yikes!) It went on to say it was out of compassion that the priest started doing it in private. I don't remember where I read that so I can't actually defend it... I don't even know if it's true Catholic thought... just thought it was interesting.
Well, I wanted to take a stab at this... maybe another Catholic can do a better job of explaining but that's kind of a nutshell.

Thanks!! Seems like its a lot different than I believed! yes, I was (and still am) sincerely curious!

 

[JennyMominRI]

And of course there is the possibility that you are all wrong..That not all humans are born sinful. That g-d does not requite "salvation" at all. That repentance is all that is needed and there was never ANY need for Jesus to die on the cross in the first place. . I always wonder why Christians, who believe they are an extension of Judaism, never study Jewish beliefs at all,but assume that what the NT says and teaches about Jews and Judaism is true

 

[Wishing on a star]

Since we have now entered a new and interesting topic, I will post...

I do see what you are saying about salvation. And, I agree, you are probably correct that most Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, do know know a whole lot about the Jewish faith. And, we should know more!

I do feel that we have lost a LOT by losing the origination of our faith!!!!

I do however, believe that we do need salvation, that we were promised a Messiah. etc.... I have to admit that I am not the specialist. But, I do believe in Christ as my Creator and Messiah and Salvation.


You mention 'sin', and 'repentance'. And, of course that is huge. Do you not believe that by 'human nature' that we are all 'sinful'? Would it be true to think that each and every one of us must have repentance?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

As my final post here...

Christ said to share in communion, sharing bread and wine, in remembrance... to remember the sacrifice that he has paid for us.

My question, which is unanswered, still stands... Just where in the Bible does Christ state his will that there should be an ordained reverend/pastor/minister of a church organization to have the power to actually call for the transformation of the wafers and juice and to administer it to only those who are deemed acceptable?

It has already been posted, but I will repeat it anyway...

The Catholic Church is NOT solo scriptura.

They belive that the bread and wine are indeed the body and blood of christ. Essentially--you shouldn't take it b/c you don't believe that. They made that decision.

Christ said (And says it in the Bible)--Take this--this is my body--take this in memory of me. Drink this--this is my blood--drink this in memory of me. (NOTE--not a literal translation as I am quoting from memory).

Not every little thing the Catholic church does will ever be found in the Bible.

It has nothing to do with who is "acceptable". It has to do with who believes it is what it is. You don't believe it--the Catholic church really doesn't want you to participate in the sacrament.

While anyone is free to attend a mass--noone is free to participate in sacraments if they don't believe in it.

I don't know quite how it works with the Eucharistic Ministers who distribute the communion...they pretty much can't refuse anyone...but their can be cases where they might be able to. I am not sure how that works as I am not an EM.

I have yet to see someone refused the body or blood of Christ...including one gentleman who was sooo obviously not Catholic..or any other faith that has any similar physical communion. And even he wasn't refused. He ended up dropping the the body (the wafer) into the blood (wine)--not dipping...tossing it in the chalice....and then when the EM--as shocked as she was, shook her head no to indicate that wasn't correct and then offered him the blood as there was nothing else that could be done at that point--he drank the entire amount (it was nearly full).

I went through RCIA--it had nothing to do with being deemed worthy and becoming acceptable. It was learning about the faith and whether or not I believe in it and "I" found it acceptable...and when I accepted the faith, I was ready to go through the sacraments. All they cared to know was "do I believe?" and "am I ready?".

 

[JennyMominRI]

Since we have now entered a new and interesting topic, I will post...

I do see what you are saying about salvation. And, I agree, you are probably correct that most Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, do know know a whole lot about the Jewish faith. And, we should know more!

I do feel that we have lost a LOT by losing the origination of our faith!!!!

I do however, believe that we do need salvation, that we were promised a Messiah. etc.... I have to admit that I am not the specialist. But, I do believe in Christ as my Creator and Messiah and Salvation.


You mention 'repentance'. And, of course that is huge. Do you not believe that by 'human nature' that we are all 'sinful'? Would it be true to think that each and every one of us must have 'repentance'?

Thanks for taking that in the spirit in which it was written.I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right.I'm just encouraging another POV

To the very last question"original sin" is a concept unknown to Jews.. Most Jews belive that we have the ability to chose between right and wrong, and not that we are all sinfull, by nature,from birth . "Salvation " is not a jewish concept..If we choose to sin,we make Teshuvah..There is no need for any sort of sacrifice..These are all Christian concepts, and not Jewish ones.. The idea of a man dying for our sins is totally against Judaism,and the idea of worshiping man as God is as close to Idolatry as you can get, which may explain, in part ,why it is so hard for Jews to accept Jesus as savior. They don't believe in the neccesity of a savior . Since there is no Hell or devil in Judaism ,there is nothing to be saved from.

 

[dcentity2000]

And of course there is the possibility that you are all wrong..That not all hi8mans are born sinful. That g-d does not requite "salvation" at all. That repentance is all that is needed and there was never ANY need for Jesus to die on the cross in the first place. Of course that is to radical for most Christians to consider at all. I always wonder why Christians, who believe they are an extension of Judaism, never studt Jewish beliefs at all,but assume that what the NT says and teaches about Jews and Judaism is true

It's food for thought, certainly.

I reckon we'll only know once we die.



Rich::

 

[JennyMominRI]

It's food for thought, certainly.

I reckon we'll only know once we die.



Rich::

Agreed...Of course,If I'm wrong,I'm screwed. If you're wrong you've hedged your bets

 

[Wishing on a star]

Agreed...Od course,If I'm wrong,I'm screwed. If you're wrong you've hedged your bets

LOL!!!!!

sorry, but the way you phrased that cracked me up!!!

 

[Wishing on a star]

You know, I am thinking, with this new discussion here....

The Jews were, and are, God's chosen people!
I guess it is confusing and sad to think that maybe some Christians do not really 'get' that.

The thing that occurs to me here is that, YES, there are some very fundamental and basic differences in our faiths. I mean, by definition, Christianity is not simply an extension of Judaism. It is a whole NEW Testament. It emerged as a whole new set of parameters. A whole new way of looking at spirituality and salvation. The differences that you note are indeed the defining differences and the whole essance of Christianity.

I guess that what I am saying is that it is not just happenstance points of disagreement. To Christians, we see these things as the whole origin and definition of our faith. We do accept that Christianity is a whole new deal.

Man, don't know if I expressed that clearly or not!!! LOL!!! Maybe you can see a little sense in my incoherant rambling!!!