Relationship Struggle

[Positive]

I'm only up to pg 5 so far in reading up on this thread, but the whole thing with your BF's daughter and your nephew/son/whatever you call him dating her falls into the realm of Jerry Springer talk show material.

Way too much drama.

If you really were satisfied and happy with the status quo, then you wouldn't be saying that you're unhappy with the current state of affairs. You are not looking to get married to your BF and that's totally fine. But you want to be given the same respect as a spouse would receive. And your BF is, frankly, treating you like crap. Only he's wrapped it in nice wrapping paper and disguised it so you will ignore and hopefully forget that he's treating you like an 18 year long booty call.

Actions speak louder than words. If he really considers you family like he SAYS he does, then you wouldn't be excluded by him to every family event. And being in a relationship like that for 18 long years? Something rotten is in the state of Denmark. Something isn't right here.

You are wasting your time with this guy. You deserve better treatment. But you are certainly free to continue if you want in a relationship in which your boyfriend treats you well and says nice things to you in private, but in front of others, won't even be in the same room as you...and excludes you and pretends in front of his family like you don't exist. You need to ask yourself why you are willing to be treated that way. Why are you willing to be treated like that by a person who claims to care about you so much?

He is my nephew, he & my BFs DD chose to begin dating during a trip to WDW. We were shocked because we saw it as a family relationship. We are not drama seeking people but that doesn't mean drama can't find its way into your life. This is what we were faced with, each of us looking at 2 kids we love making what we considered a big mistake. We tried, in the most sensitive way possible, to explain the bigger picture without shaming them. It was horrible.
Are there levels of respect? More for a wife than a girlfriend? To me respect is respect. I do realize something is off between me & DBF which is why I sought help from the DISers. I don't feel like an 18 year long booty call, we do go a little deeper than that.

 

[punkin]

I'm sorry you are going through this. Everyone else has given good advice. I'm just going to send virtual hugs and strength to you. You need to figure out what's best for you and your children, but the current state of this relationship is really no good for anyone.

 

[Positive]

I agree.

So why is the BF's behavior re: Thanksgiving not honorable? Let me count the ways....

1. For a man who CLAIMS to care about you so much, he certainly seems to be very conflicted with regards to where he actually wants to spend Thanksgiving Day.
2. Have you considered the possibility that he spent the first part of Thanksgiving Day with his DD and the rest of his family....had a full Thanksgiving Dinner there, and THEN called you at 3 pm to say, "Can I still come to dinner?"
3. Either he's totally lying to you OR he is a gutless wonder who can't make a decision.
4. So he told you that he was still deciding....Choosing NOT to decide IS making a choice!
5. You know what he should have done? Told his DD and the rest of his family that you ARE a part of his family and you & your kids ARE joining him for Thanksgiving and if they all don't like it, they can take a long walk off a short pier and that's that.
6. But no...he didn't stick up for you. Instead, he perhaps was trying to keep 2 disagreeing parties happy by trying to please everybody and, in doing so, probably ended up ticking everybody off...you and his DD and his other relatives.
7. Whatever way you slice it, whatever his story is, he's not an honorable man who will stick up for his girlfriend of 18 years. I mean seriously, after 18 years, this is how the love of your life treats you? And OMG, really...doing yard work all day on Thanksgiving Day? Give me a break. When he could be spending time with you and the rest of his family? If you believe that one, you are very gullible.

Thanksgiving was ridiculous, I would not & could not disagree with you. I was hurt & somewhat embarrassed when my family was asking "what is BF doing today" & I had to say I'm not sure, he hasn't told me. They do know the history & they were not amused either, it's awkward for everyone.
He did not go to his sister's house because she was texting me asking if he was coming to my house for dinner because she hadn't heard from him. I told her exactly what was going on. I know he was home doing yard work because our homes are a short drive from each other & I was using his oven to cook some of our meal, so I was back & forth a few times & he was there doing yard & tree work. We said hellos & goodbyes all the while him saying nothing about joining me or anyone else to eat. I suspect that since his DD was home from college, he was most likely waiting for DD to confirm what she would be doing so he would decide where he would be, I don't know where DD ended up, but he asked to come to my house when I was picking up my pies from his oven.
There were many words the next day. I was very po'd, kind of still am as I am typing this. He is not a liar though. You are right choosing not to decide is making a choice. I felt so unimportant that day. It was mean.

 

[Lynne M]

I'm still not seeing what's shocking about one of your relatives and one of your boyfriend's relatives falling in love. I've done a lot of genealogy research, and that kind of thing is hardly unheard of. It appears in my own family tree in a few places. Two families start spending time together because of a marriage, and voila, another pair falls in love. I think there was even a double wedding somewhere way back when in my family - two brothers in family A married two sisters in family B.

Your boyfriend's in a bad position here. It seems pretty clear to me that he feels like his relationship with his daughter was damaged by the falling-out between you, and he's trying very hard to salvage it. He's doing it in a very ham-handed way, bowing to her wishes in a way that's leaving you feeling excluded. I do think couples counseling would be a help here, to help both of you learn how to talk about this more productively, and to help him find a way to handle the situation with his daughter that doesn't leave him trapped in the crossfire, feeling like he has to choose one of you over the other.

 

[Positive]

That's why we're rooting for you to get professional help to fix this dysfunctional relationship, or to leave this guy. You truly deserve so much more.

I have no doubt that he has sometimes been extremely loving, affectionate, and very much there for you. But that isn't the whole story here. That's the part of the story that your mind holds onto when you consider ending things. And your mind represses the disrespect and the distancing you've persistently endured for so long.

This is how abusive relationships thrive. For example, a battered wife often stays with her man more out of love than out of fear. She thinks her man loves her, but that he just has a problem, and that she's strong enough to handle it. She doesn't acknowledge the conscious manipulation on his part, or the lack of self-esteem on her part that is allowing this to continue.

I'll always remember an interview I heard Brett Butler (comedianne & former battered wife) give, in which she mentioned how she once ran into a friend of her abusive ex, who said that she shouldn't put her ex down all the time.

"Why not?" she asked.

"Because he's really a great guy," the ex's friend said.

"I know that," Brett replied. "Do you think I would have let a total a**hole beat me up for 3 years?"

The moral of that is that even abusive men (and your bf is emotionally abusive, even if he's unaware of it), are sometimes loving, fun or tender. There are good times even in many bad relationships, but that doesn't mean the relationship itself is strong or healthy.

You've done so much for others in your life, and sacrificed so much. You deserve to be well-treated and truly a full and equal part of a man's life.

Thanks for your message. I have never thought of our relationship as abusive, but I will be paying closer attention to all of my feelings going forward.

 

[Positive]

I'm still not seeing what's shocking about one of your relatives and one of your boyfriend's relatives falling in love. I've done a lot of genealogy research, and that kind of thing is hardly unheard of. It appears in my own family tree in a few places. Two families start spending time together because of a marriage, and voila, another pair falls in love. I think there was even a double wedding somewhere way back when in my family - two brothers in family A married two sisters in family B.

Your boyfriend's in a bad position here. It seems pretty clear to me that he feels like his relationship with his daughter was damaged by the falling-out between you, and he's trying very hard to salvage it. He's doing it in a very ham-handed way, bowing to her wishes in a way that's leaving you feeling excluded. I do think couples counseling would be a help here, to help both of you learn how to talk about this more productively, and to help him find a way to handle the situation with his daughter that doesn't leave him trapped in the crossfire, feeling like he has to choose one of you over the other.

I understand both sides, my mom did not think it was a big deal either. On paper, there was nothing wrong with it either. We were pretty sure it was a first real relationship for both of them & wanted them to think about what it would look like if they broke up. At that time, we were all very immersed in a life together, we did a lot together as a family. A break up after dating would leave them most likely not wanting to be near each other. We though it would be quick & over, it lasted years.

 

[Dumbo777]

I am living a separate, independent life from him. It doesn't mean we were not/are not working together as a team. I didn't feel like he needed to prove anything to me regarding the very life altering decision to bring 2 more kids into the picture that needed love & stability. If he had thrown his hands up & said not for me, I would have said alrighty then, have a good life. If he had said, let's talk about moving in together or getting married, I would have chatted, but he didn't do either. He supported me through all of it & it was 2 years of court, custody battles, home visits, etc. He held me when I cried, when I was so overwhelmed I thought I would burst open, when my job gave me a hard time, etc. My babies were 2 & 4 & had been through hell. It was not easy at all, kids that have been through trauma & neglect need so much time, energy & patience. It is tough even now, I just have more experience. There was no chance they were going into foster care when I am fully capable of doing the right thing for them.

Thanksgiving was ridiculous, I would not & could not disagree with you. I was hurt & somewhat embarrassed when my family was asking "what is BF doing today" & I had to say I'm not sure, he hasn't told me. They do know the history & they were not amused either, it's awkward for everyone.
He did not go to his sister's house because she was texting me asking if he was coming to my house for dinner because she hadn't heard from him. I told her exactly what was going on. I know he was home doing yard work because our homes are a short drive from each other & I was using his oven to cook some of our meal, so I was back & forth a few times & he was there doing yard & tree work. We said hellos & goodbyes all the while him saying nothing about joining me or anyone else to eat. I suspect that since his DD was home from college, he was most likely waiting for DD to confirm what she would be doing so he would decide where he would be, I don't know where DD ended up, but he asked to come to my house when I was picking up my pies from his oven.
There were many words the next day. I was very po'd, kind of still am as I am typing this. He is not a liar though. You are right choosing not to decide is making a choice. I felt so unimportant that day. It was mean.

It was mean. What was his reaction to you telling him how you felt the next day? Did he even apologize or acknowledge how his actions made you feel. Sorry if I'm being nosey. I just feel for you. I went through something similar. At the end of the day you are going to have to decide how you will allow yourself to be treated and at what point you need to draw the line. Everyone can offer spectacular advice, but you are the only person living your life.

 

[Diaz]

I don’t have any advice. I want you to know I admire your responses. You are respectful and not at all defensive. The tone of your responses makes me feel you are very kind and gentile. I hope it all works out the way u wish. Hugs.

 

[sk!mom]

I am happy to have your post to read. What would you do if this was you & your adult child refused? Neither of us can make her join a conversation. If you have a suggestion there, I would listen.
I definitely do not attack her at all nor have I ever spoken badly about her mother to her, I just wouldn't do that. My DBF & I have had many conversations about his ex over the years. He is much more likely to bring up the damage her mother has done with regard to negativity towards me.
If my child acted this way towards my DBF, I would let my son or daughter know this is the person I love & he is welcome into my home & life at all times. If you have a problem with something that happened, let's talk about it, otherwise expect to see him often. If you choose to not be somewhere that we are, I will be sorry to hear it, but that is your choice, sweetheart.

Your expectation of how your children would treat your BF is the standard that you should expect/demand he hold his DD accountable to for you.

He is my nephew, he & my BFs DD chose to begin dating during a trip to WDW. We were shocked because we saw it as a family relationship. We are not drama seeking people but that doesn't mean drama can't find its way into your life. This is what we were faced with, each of us looking at 2 kids we love making what we considered a big mistake. We tried, in the most sensitive way possible, to explain the bigger picture without shaming them. It was horrible.
Are there levels of respect? More for a wife than a girlfriend? To me respect is respect. I do realize something is off between me & DBF which is why I sought help from the DISers. I don't feel like an 18 year long booty call, we do go a little deeper than that.

Their dating isn't unusual at all to me. They are not related, are thrown together, and nature takes over. I'm another who doesn't see why this was a big deal. It's clear that his DD and really your bf did not see your children as family so dating was pretty natural. It sounds more like the children of family friends beginning a relationship.

Best wishes OP. The more I read, the more you seem like a really loving caring person who has accepted a relationship that wasn't what you deserved. You've excused your BF and called him honorable when all of his actions point otherwise.

 

[Dentam]

I feel really badly for you, OP. I was in a drawn out and emotionally abusive relationship myself and I know how truly awful it is to feel like you're not being respected or treated the way you deserve. Maybe I'm just projecting here based on my own horrible experience, but your bf sounds like he lacks a spine to deal with conflict. Mine would either flat out ignore me when I brought up something that hurt me, deny he did anything wrong, tell me I was too sensitive, etc, etc. I had never even heard of gas lighting before dating him but man, he was like the textbook definition of it. I'd never experienced that type of emotional abuse before and never want to again. I hope your bf is at least discussing this with you and acknowledging how hurtful his behavior is to you. Don't stay in this type of situation too long if his BEHAVIOR (not words or promises) does not change... know that you deserve so much better!

 

[mummabear]

So-I will state the obvious & say I am emotionally involved (if you couldn't tell)!
Can you please tell me, in your opinion, why his honor is lacking? What is it about it that hits a nerve with you?

I understand both sides, my mom did not think it was a big deal either. On paper, there was nothing wrong with it either. We were pretty sure it was a first real relationship for both of them & wanted them to think about what it would look like if they broke up. At that time, we were all very immersed in a life together, we did a lot together as a family. A break up after dating would leave them most likely not wanting to be near each other. We though it would be quick & over, it lasted years.

OP: it has taken me a little bit of time to read trough all the responses.

While I don’t think you are wrong with feeling uncomfortable with the relationship between your newphew and his daughter, it may help things to talk to her about it if you can.
Apologise to her for something (something you are comfortable with, this may be saying “I’m sorry I didn’t listen to your viewpoint on the relationship” or “I’m sorry I pushed my view of us being a family unit” or “I’m sorry for the way I handled things”.
It doesn’t mean saying you are sorry that you were uncomfortable with the relationship, but I do bet you are sorry for how it has turned out (not saying that’s all on you). An apology/admittance of error can catch people off guard, and give you a chance to talk to her, let her know that oh want at least a civil relationship.

As far as DBF goes, 18 years and no one has moved in together is not a committed relationship, sorry. I don’t agree with the other posters that you have to be married but you haven’t made a family unit at all, and Thanksgiving is the surest sign of that, as a unit it should be a given that you are spending it together.
He cannot be excluding you from family events if you are part of his family unit.

I would tell him that you are ok with him and DD doing things without you, but anything as a group she should need to deal with it, he should not be cancelling plans with you to do something with DD, and he should be committing to plans with you for things like Thanksgiving.
If he isn’t willing to do that little then I would cut and run.

Look a head at your life together-what do you want? Do you want to live together? Are you ok if you never do?
Are you ok if you are cut from DDs life:not invited to her wedding, baby showers, grandchildren’s Birthday parties? That is a lot of his life she is being allowed to cut you out of.
And if you aren’t on the same page on these things:again cut and run.
It will be hard to break up for sure, this person has spent a long time playing a significant part in your life, but if you want something better, you aren’t going to find while still trying to make it work with him.

 

[ThistleMae]

OK, this answers a lot. (I'm actually curious why it was left out before.)

So, if I've got this right, you were so upset by dating between his daughter and your nephew - who are legally no relation at all - that you involved professionals and "sat them down"? It's no wonder she turned cold - she blames you for breaking up her relationship, not just her parents! - You weren't married, weren't even living together...think about it from her perspective. Why would she (a teenager at the time?) really see this guy as a "cousin"? If you'd all have stayed out of it, it most likely would have fizzled on it's own. (And even if it hadn't, there are families out there with way more complicated relationships - trust me.) But because a situation that only needed to be awkward was turned into a crisis, things are far worse now.

Yes...this explains so much more. I agree with PollyannaMom...we all needed this information to understand the DD's feelings. I couldn't have said it any better!

 

[ThistleMae]

Yes, you have it right! I am worried that her mother has exaggerated & elaborated (lied) about how her father & I met. I wonder if this was to try to "get her on her side" early on after they divorced? I really don't think it is ever a good idea for a parent to treat their young child as a friend & confidante, enlisting them in their own personal vendetta, but that is what she has done. Not to elaborate on our romantic beginnings, but it was a super slow process. I had been single for many years, simply raising my son as a single mom. I wanted to get that right, so I probably neglected my personal life in a very big way. I didn't date at all, I hardly ever went out with friends, etc. I worked & took care of my son.
I hope it can work out for us too, so thank you. I am willing to compromise, work at it & be understanding. I simply cannot feel like I am an afterthought or getting benched because plans with DD trump our own. Does that make sense?

I think you've answered your own question. If you feel like an afterthought you have two choices....address your feeling and accept what is, or get out of the situation.

 

[ThistleMae]

What would you call it then? I felt that every member of that trip was my family. Families are not always a neat, tidy little package with a DW,DH & 2 DKiddos. I would never disagree that my version of family may be complicated to hear about but assure you it is loving & caring. I have mentioned in past posts that I do feel that my DBFs daughter & I were not as close as I would have wanted through her growing up years. I did try, but didn’t want to shove myself down her throat with terms like step mom.
Also, it wasn’t a cruise, it was a trip to WDW, which we used to ALL love taking together as a family.

I agree that family means different things and that it isn't as simple as being married or living together. Lifestyles can be very diverse and so can definitions of it, but....you state you have never been as close as you would have liked. It doesn't sound like she has any emotional connection to you, and maybe in part that is due to her mother, but the reality of it is that she doesn't see you as a step-mother. The two of you have never gotten close. The issue with she and your nephew didn't help that situation any and neither did her mother's support of it over you and your DB' opposition to it (whatever form that took). You did mention that the issue you have is with how he is handling the situation, which are your feelings about how she treats you. This is something he can't control either. You did say he's tried to talk to her, correct, or did I get that wrong? What more do you want him to do? Be specific.

 

[ThistleMae]

I want to clarify that I *do* see his family & go to family things with him & there was a time that this was not an issue.
I shared details previously about an interaction at my DBFs sister's home.
These days, when his daughter comes home from college, such as over these recent holidays, what happens is my DBF will tell me, we (meaning he & DD) are going to my sister's house tonight for X's birthday (one of her kids). In this instance, I'm not asked to come-kind of an unspoken I will be with DD tonight.
Thanksgiving was ridiculous imo. I host every year & for all of our years but 2016 he has come to my house. Right up until Thanksgiving day, I had no idea what he was doing or whose table he would be sitting at. I made it a point not to ask, I had plenty else going on that week & he knows that I make dinner & all the other festivities we have. Instead I waited to for him to speak about his plans. Whatever he decided, would be fine. I am not going to be petty or bitter because he wants to spend that holiday with his side of the family, but make a decision! Nobody knew what he was doing, he was home cleaning up his yard until finally at about 3 he asked if he could come for dinner. My answer was yes. The next day I had many words for him about his actions/behavior.

Okay, this is very strange. All of a sudden he isn't coming to your house. What has changed? Something else has happened. What?

 

[PollyannaMom]

I understand both sides, my mom did not think it was a big deal either. On paper, there was nothing wrong with it either. We were pretty sure it was a first real relationship for both of them & wanted them to think about what it would look like if they broke up. At that time, we were all very immersed in a life together, we did a lot together as a family. A break up after dating would leave them most likely not wanting to be near each other. We though it would be quick & over, it lasted years.

I do understand that you were worried about what could happen if they broke up, but sometimes you just have to "cross that bridge when you come to it". By forcing the issue, you assured that something bad happened. (I'm not trying to beat you up now about a bad decision - I've made plenty of my own! I'm just agreeing with @mummabear about taking partial responsibility for the rift.) I can't say whether the DD would be receptive to an apology or not, as it sounds like she won't talk with you. - Do you think maybe she'd read a letter?

I also wanted to say that I can see why you might have hesitated to move in together when you took in your nieces. I expect you were trying to protect them from more and more changes all at once. It does make for a unique relationship with your BF, though. The two of you made a conscious decision to keep some distance, so things like Thanksgiving aren't a "given" - but he does owe you the courtesy of deciding in advance. (And it's not nagging to ask him straight out!) Stringing you along isn't fair at all, and I think it demonstrates one of two things - either he's feeling helpless and really doesn't know how to handle this, or he's questioning the relationship, but doesn't want to admit that. I'm definitely curious about what he said the next day!

 

[ThistleMae]

Yes, I did & WE did. We used to talk about a lot. Life for me got very busy needing to step in to raise my nieces followed my my nephew. Their life was way harder than any of this & they needed stability. I will honestly say, I can't remember the last time we talked about it with any real sense of possibility. I recognize things have changed between us & I am struggling with it & I think he is too. Practically crying typing that sentence.

I feel so badly for you. You are in such obvious pain. Recognizing this very significant change is very sad for both of you, I can see that. Personally, I would be okay with not living together, and give him time to do what he needs to for his daughter, even if I don't agree. I've decided I'm the kind of person who needs my own time and space, and quite frankly I'd be okay with the way things are, it's merely a challenging time. I would continue to enjoy my time with him and adjust to the situation by making my own time that much more special, even if it was without him for those times he spends with his daughter. But you have viewed his family as your family for 18 years, so this is a huge change because of one person, his daughter. She will eventually have her own life, and her own relationship. I imagine the current situation will eventually change again. If I were you, which I am not, I would ride out the storm, make new friends and let him make his own decisions about her, with input from me that I'm not going to just sit around and wait for his call to tell me whether he's coming to dinner or not. I would not expect him for Holidays, and I'd make my own happiness. He will either decide he wants to be more involved and make more of a commitment or you will both gradually drift apart. Just another way to look at things. The most important thing is to look inside your heart and decide on what will make you the most comfortable/happy. The only thing you can control in this situation is you.

 

[Skywalker]

It seems like such an odd relationship, on one hand you feel so much like family that your relatives dating feels like incest to you, but on the other hand you can't even bring yourself to ask him what he is doing on Thanksgiving?

The dating thing, you clearly should have stayed out of. That was very controlling and I thought by 2018 we had all agreed not to tell others who to love.

The rest of it, I know you sound like a very kind person but there is obviously more to both sides of the story that is being left out here. I thnk its time to be really honest with yourself.

 

[ronandannette]

It seems like such an odd relationship, on one hand you feel so much like family that your relatives dating feels like incest to you, but on the other hand you can't even bring yourself to ask him what he is doing on Thanksgiving?

The dating thing, you clearly should have stayed out of. That was very controlling and I thought by 2018 we had all agreed not to tell others who to love.

The rest of it, I know you sound like a very kind person but there is obviously more to both sides of the story that is being left out here. I thnk its time to be really honest with yourself.

We didn't get a lot of details but I believe the DD and nephew were teens at the time. It's not totally crazy for the parent of a teen to have some input into a relationship they see as inappropriate. I'm going way out on a limb here but the problem as the parents saw it may have been them being sexually active right under their noses due to everyone's close proximity. Personally, I'd have had a lot to say about that if it were one of my children and tried to curtail it as well. YMMV.

 

[Miffy]

OP: I have not read the entire thread, but, IMO, the best place to look for resolution about this difficulty is with your DBF, not with people on the DISboard or FB or even a close friend. Only you and DBF can work this out together.

A couple of things I noticed while reading most, not all, of the thread were: (1) your defending your DBF, saying he's not a liar because he didn't lie, he only left things out. Omission is actually a form of lying. Since this a WDW form and not a scientific paper, I won't cite sources, but if you're curious about this, you can Google it. I didn't make this up; and (2) saying that your DBF probably isn't cheating on you because you don't have that feeling. I'm not saying DBF is cheating on you and am not exactly sure why anyone else would, but, from personal experience, I have to say that that feeling may be completely absent. Totally, 100% absent. Someone who's even an amateur at covering things up can do a very good job of it when they feel it's necessary. That's not to say your DBF is and I'm not writing this to cause you to feel suspicious. Just be aware that many cheated-on partners are blindsided.

I hope you can work this out and come out the other side happy and feeling secure and loved. You seem to be a very loving and forgiving person. Many people have what others would think of as unconventional relationships. So what? That's all fine if both parties are fine with it. But something is going on right now that you're not fine with it. Solve it as quickly as possible. Life's short.