Regarding your SSN

As OceanAnnie said :eek::eek:

What exactly are you saying here? (bolded part)


I am sorry if not having my SSN makes your job a little more difficult. The less people who have my SSN, the better.

PS You do know that the account that they wrote off was not mine, it was the thief that stole my identity, right?

I totally agree. It's prudent.

Muushka, I am sorry to hear about you going through so much with the identity theft. I hope the worse is behind you. Were the thieves caught?
 
If I understand you correctly, lets take me for example.

Once this NY Cablevision received all of my information proving that I was not the person who ordered the cable and didn't pay the bill, they will, in turn, sell my name and SSN to other collection agencies? Is that what you are saying? If yes, that is just wrong.

I have frozen all of my credit and the person who stole my id and SSN still has her address associated on my SSN history. In other words, when I look up my SSN on IDTheft911 site, all of my previous addresses that I have lived in over the past 20 years show up, including the thief in NY's address. They (Experian) have received notice from me with documentation to remove that address from my SSN. Really irritating. I just checked, it is still there.

While we are talking ID theft (well, I am anyway) I did a wise thing last year. My homeowners ins offered a ID theft rider for about $12 a year. Best $12 I ever spent. This time when it happened, I had my ins company on my side. They hooked me up with IDTheft911 (at no cost to me) and they appointed an associate to help me. In addition to the credit monitoring, she also did all of the paperwork for me to freeze my credit. She followed up on several questions I had. And told me time lines (like that thief will have her address with mine for up to several months) and what to expect. I highly recommend it. Plus, considering I had a pre-existing condition ( ID stolen before :thumbsup2), it was a bargain.

Muushka,
What I was refering to was CajunDixie saying to be prepared for the collection agency to not actually write off the collection debt but to sell it to another agency in a few years. Scumbag collection agencies will illegally do this from time to time. They won't write off the bogus debt correctly so that they can first write it off on that years taxes as a loss and then try to make a few bucks from it in another tax year by selling it to another collection agency.

I believe you are talking about settling the debt incurred, when they stole your identity, with the cable company itself and not a collection agency? If so that should be taken care of because NY cablevision would take care of it there and not sent to collections. Just make sure you keep all the paperwork from this in case you need it down the road.

The identity theft company is a great idea especially since your SSN has already been stolen twice. My brothers had his identity stolen when he was a teen and worked at a little hot dog stand who hired an illegal and gave him my brothers SSN after my brother quit. I think it was because he was mentally slow so they figured he wouldn't be smart enough to get them in trouble down the road.
 
LOL u didnt disclose u plan to use 123-45-6789 til after everyone told u it was fraud..

I did in my post before you called me a fraud for the second time. DUH!!! :rotfl:

PS you were the only one who told me it was fraud. I know it feels better to feel you were not all alone on calling someone a fraud several times but you were.
 
Here is a great article on safeguarding your SSN:

The Basics: Safeguard your Social Security number

Protect yourself from identity theft by keeping a tight rein on your Social Security number. Only a few organizations have the right to demand it. Here's how to fend off the rest.

By Bankrate.com

"I think it's spooky. Everybody has that one number, and everything about you is tied to it," worries Jim Edwards, program director at WJNO in West Palm Beach, Fla.

"Put it in a computer and poof -- here's your bank account, your phone number, where you work."

The key to all that private information? Your Social Security number.

Edwards was way ahead of most people. Back in the early '80s, he refused to give his Social Security number when he enrolled at Miami Dade Community College. The school wanted to use it as a student identification number, but Edwards held his ground and the school gave him a different number -- all zeros, as he recalls.

Today, schools, phone companies, utilities, health clubs, insurance companies, video stores -- just about everybody wants your Social Security number. Some of the more prevalent uses are to get your credit rating and determine whether you pay your bills, and to keep track of you through name and address changes.

But companies also use your Social Security number to develop marketing lists, which they can sell to other companies. A list with the numbers is more valuable than one without.

Why should you care who sees your Social Security number? The more people who see it, the more susceptible you are to identity theft, where you are victimized by someone fraudulently using your name and credit report to steal money.

Identity theft costs American businesses billions each year, costs that are eventually passed on to all consumers. The toll on victims is heavy, too. The California Public Interest Research Group estimates that, on average, an identity theft victim will spend 175 hours and $800 trying to clear their record of fraudulent charges.

"I've seen accounts opened with wrong names and different addresses. As long as there's a SSN, that's all some of them care about," says Linda Foley of the Identity Theft Research Center in San Diego.

Who has the right to ask for your digits?
While any business can ask for your Social Security number, there are very few entities that can actually demand it -- motor vehicle departments, tax departments and welfare departments, for example. Also, SSNs are required for transactions involving taxes, so that means banks, brokerages, employers, and the like also have a legitimate need for your SSN.

Most other businesses have no legal right to demand your number.

"There is no law prohibiting a business from asking for your Social Security number, but people don't know they can say no," says Carolyn Cheezum of the Social Security Administration.

"We recommend that you ask if they'll accept an alternative piece of identification. If they don't, flat-out refuse to do business with them. Bear in mind that there's a possibility they'll refuse to provide whatever product or service you're seeking."

Edwards, for example, won't give his Social Security number to his doctor's office.

"When you go to the doctor's office and fill out the medical information, they ask for the SSN. I leave it blank. Nothing happens. I'm not reporting income from them."

In fact, chances are good that many companies that routinely ask for Social Security numbers will do business with you even if they can't have your number.

"We ask for a Social Security number to open an account, but it's not required," says Michael Lowndes of the Long Island Power Authority.

"The Social Security number is just part of the customer's record. A common problem with utility accounts is people open an account, default and reopen another account using the same Social. We can use that to discover the problem."

Kimberly Brown at Bell South headquarters in Atlanta says there's a procedure the company follows if someone doesn't want to give his number.

"We ask them to fill out a questionnaire to determine their payment history. We don't do a credit check; we depend on them being honest. The questionnaire determines the Bell South rating for them, and then that determines whether they'll have to pay a deposit to establish service."

Your cat is sick? Give us your Social Security number
Linda Foley of the Identity Theft Research Center says she brought her critically ill cat to a vet's office and balked when she was asked for her SSN.

"I said why? Will it be my cat's ID number? They said no, but if you give us a check we want a driver's license and a SSN in case the check bounces. I said I'd pay by credit card. They said it's our policy to get the number.

"I said if I give you a credit card and refuse to give you my Social Security number, you'd let my cat die right now? They looked at me and the cat and said, 'Give us the card; we'll take care of it.' I was upset about the cat, but I was frustrated by the way I was being treated. It was unnecessary."

Social Security numbers and identity theft
Social Security numbers exist for the purpose of tracking earnings and paying benefits, Cheezum says. Although President Franklin Roosevelt signed an order requiring federal agencies to use SSNs for record-keeping systems, they were never meant to be used by businesses as an identifier, but have taken on that role because everyone has one.

But the snowballing problem of identity theft is spurring some governments to limit the use of SSNs.

California is leading the way with its law barring businesses, health care providers and schools from:

* Publicly posting Social Security numbers or requiring them for access to products or services.

* Printing of Social Security numbers on cards required for accessing products or services.

* Requiring an individual to use his or her Social Security number to access a Web site unless a password is also required to access the site.

* Printing an individual's SSN on any materials that are mailed to the individual.

The state of New York limits the use of Social Security numbers in schools and colleges. New York public and private schools cannot publicly display Social Security numbers. Many are opting to assign students identification numbers. Arizona has passed similar legislation.

Foley says she hopes other states will follow suit and be even more restrictive so that SSNs will eventually be used only for a few selective purposes.

But, Foley says, until that happens, the first defense against the fraudulent use of Social Security numbers are the companies that issue credit.

"Are they verifying that the person applying for credit is the true consumer? Are they looking carefully for red flags that might alert them to possible fraudulent use? If a credit application has a last name spelled incorrectly or an address different from the credit record, that should provoke someone into calling the consumer."

Some privacy rights proponents say Social Security numbers shouldn't be used for obtaining credit. Does that mean a second number would have to be issued for people seeking credit? Would that be any better than the current system?

More protections in California
Perhaps California's newly enacted privacy law offers a better option.

In addition to limiting the use of Social Security numbers, the law allows a consumer to place a "security freeze" on his credit report. The freeze prohibits consumer-credit-reporting agencies from releasing the consumer's credit report or any information from it without express authorization from the consumer.

Time will tell if that provision works better than the more common "alerts" that many people put on their credit reports. With an "alert" a consumer is supposed to be notified that someone is attempting to obtain credit in his or her name. But stories abound of breakdowns in the system.

If someone uses your Social Security number to obtain credit and doesn't pay the bills, you'll discover the fraud as soon as the bill collectors come calling. But sometimes an identity thief actually pays the bills and, in those instances, it could be a long time before you discover the fraud.

The best way to find out if someone is fraudulently using your Social Security number is to request copies of your credit reports at least once a year. There are three main credit-reporting agencies. It's a good idea to get a copy of your report from each agency so you can check for discrepancies. You can order your credit report from: TransUnion, Equifax and Experian.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/P33718.asp
 

I totally agree. It's prudent.

Muushka, I am sorry to hear about you going through so much with the identity theft. I hope the worse is behind you. Were the thieves caught?
Thanks Anne, I appreciate it. No, even though they have her address they have not gone after her.
I was told that there are bigger fish to fry.:sad2:

Muushka,
What I was refering to was CajunDixie saying to be prepared for the collection agency to not actually write off the collection debt but to sell it to another agency in a few years. Scumbag collection agencies will illegally do this from time to time. They won't write off the bogus debt correctly so that they can first write it off on that years taxes as a loss and then try to make a few bucks from it in another tax year by selling it to another collection agency.

I believe you are talking about settling the debt incurred, when they stole your identity, with the cable company itself and not a collection agency? If so that should be taken care of because NY cablevision would take care of it there and not sent to collections. Just make sure you keep all the paperwork from this in case you need it down the road.

The identity theft company is a great idea especially since your SSN has already been stolen twice. My brothers had his identity stolen when he was a teen and worked at a little hot dog stand who hired an illegal and gave him my brothers SSN after my brother quit. I think it was because he was mentally slow so they figured he wouldn't be smart enough to get them in trouble down the road.

Your poor brother. People are just plain mean. My poor SIL has had her share of that sort of stuff for the same reason.:sad2:

As far as the previous charges from the lunatic from NY. There have been 5 so far. It has never gone beyond the collection agency because I have always followed up on it. Fortunately they have not sold that debt onto another collection agency. And yup, I have saved all the letters stating that I am innocent of the charges. I do need to follow up on the latest one (NY cablevision) because they have not sent me the letter yet clearing me of this latest theft.

It is so sad. I have a folder on the computer and a folder in my desk that contains all of the debts that this loser has accumulated in MY NAME.
But having my ins co help me has made all the difference in the world.

Anne, great info in that latest post. If more people start refusing to give their SSN, they will stop asking for it!

Just an aside, the police told me that more than likely the SSN was stolen when I worked for the state. They used to require you to put in your hours for the month and the form had our SSN on them. After this happened, I made a stink at work. Subsequently they changed the way it was done, sans SSN.
So for all who are reading this thread, revolt!!!
 
Thanks Anne, I appreciate it. No, even though they have her address they have not gone after her.
I was told that there are bigger fish to fry.:sad2:



Your poor brother. People are just plain mean. My poor SIL has had her share of that sort of stuff for the same reason.:sad2:

As far as the previous charges from the lunatic from NY. There have been 5 so far. It has never gone beyond the collection agency because I have always followed up on it. Fortunately they have not sold that debt onto another collection agency. And yup, I have saved all the letters stating that I am innocent of the charges. I do need to follow up on the latest one (NY cablevision) because they have not sent me the letter yet clearing me of this latest theft.

It is so sad. I have a folder on the computer and a folder in my desk that contains all of the debts that this loser has accumulated in MY NAME.
But having my ins co help me has made all the difference in the world.

Anne, great info in that latest post. If more people start refusing to give their SSN, they will stop asking for it!

Just an aside, the police told me that more than likely the SSN was stolen when I worked for the state. They used to require you to put in your hours for the month and the form had our SSN on them. After this happened, I made a stink at work. Subsequently they changed the way it was done, sans SSN.
So for all who are reading this thread, revolt!!!

Revolt is right! With times like these and the prediction of worse to come, people better guard their SSNs. :sad2:

Sorry they didn't catch the woman. I'd be so angry, I don't know what I'd do. I'd hate for someone to get away with something like that.
 
I did in my post before you called me a fraud for the second time. DUH!!! :rotfl:

PS you were the only one who told me it was fraud. I know it feels better to feel you were not all alone on calling someone a fraud several times but you were.

did you miss post 13,27 and 30?
u have been arguing the entire thread..
get over yourself..

i didnt say YOU were a fraud.. i said using someone eles ss number was fraud
 
did you miss post 13,27 and 30?
u have been arguing the entire thread..
get over yourself..

i didnt say YOU were a fraud.. i said using someone eles ss number was fraud

I can't believe you have nothing better to do than comb the thread to find posts that might have something to do with you calling someone a fraud and trying to justify why it is ok to do it. :confused3 Well enjoy your little bubble where you are always right too bad you will be the only one in it to keep yourself company. :lmao:
 
"Not for identification" on a social security card means that, although others may ask to see the card, the issuer of the card is not responsible if it turns out to not adequately identify the holder.

You may refuse to give out your social security number when dealing with a collection agency or even with a business you no longer care about dealing with. If the business then cuts you off, any further dispute about who failed to communicate is that the business failed to communicate or failed to cooperate or could not be gotten through to.

Disney hints: http://www.cockam.com/disney.htm
 
did you not read what i put? i said you have to file the case.. and IF YOU WIN.. it becomes a judgement..
and yes you can put a lein on a tax return .. see step 5..
http://www.ehow.com/how_4552871_collect-debt-judgement.html

anyone can collect on a judgement that i owed to the. u have to follow proper channels..

Yes, I read what you posted. You said you would "file a case". You never mentioned serving the other party. Some people think you can just file a case in court and go. They fail to realize you have to serve the other party.

The article you quoted says STATE tax refund. I said you can't put a lien on a FEDERAL tax refund (which is what you said in your original post --- you said to file with the IRS which is federal, not state)

Most ways of collecting on a judgment are wage garnishment or freezing a bank account. However, there were new laws passed as of January 2009 that put strict restrictions on what type and amount of balance you can "freeze" in someone's bank account.
 
Yes, I read what you posted. You said you would "file a case". You never mentioned serving the other party. Some people think you can just file a case in court and go. They fail to realize you have to serve the other party.

The article you quoted says STATE tax refund. I said you can't put a lien on a FEDERAL tax refund (which is what you said in your original post --- you said to file with the IRS which is federal, not state)

Most ways of collecting on a judgment are wage garnishment or freezing a bank account. However, there were new laws passed as of January 2009 that put strict restrictions on what type and amount of balance you can "freeze" in someone's bank account.

i standed corrected :)
thanks for pointin it out
 
Lazy??? :lmao: Sorry but I don't agree. Non payment is usually the reason we ask for it. As an ambulance service we can't exactly ask for insurance up front nor prepayment. The only time I actually use it is when we send people to collections. And as a tiny service in a 2 stoplight town we probably send at least 1/3 of the patients to collections.

Yep, still lazy. There are other ways to identify a person. You don't need their SSN. You don't even need it to send someone to collections.

I worked for the state once. I had to take a course and they (fed government) required a SSN to take the course. I called in opposition to giving the SSN (of course!). They told me to enter 000-00-0000 as a SSN. Which I did. And have not been prosecuted yet.

That's because the lowest SSN is 001-01-0001, so by entering all zeros you won't be connected to anyone else.

For those that think giving the wrong SSN to a doctor, hospital, or insurance company is illegal; no it isn't. You are NOT required to give those companies your SSN, so by giving them a number different from your own, there is no legal ramification. Just don't give your employer, bank, or any government agency the wrong number.
 
Basically, what I'm taking away from this is that the law needs to be changed so that ONLY those entities that legally need your social security number can ask for it. It was not intended to be an identifier for schools or insurance, nor is it supposed to be provided so that it is easier to collect on debts. I wish this discussion had come up two weeks ago...my daughter attended Girl's State and needed to come up with a federal bill. This would have been perfect.
 
Basically, what I'm taking away from this is that the law needs to be changed so that ONLY those entities that legally need your social security number can ask for it. It was not intended to be an identifier for schools or insurance, nor is it supposed to be provided so that it is easier to collect on debts. I wish this discussion had come up two weeks ago...my daughter attended Girl's State and needed to come up with a federal bill. This would have been perfect.

Certain people can apply for a Federal Tax ID number. That can be given out in place of social security number. I have one with my business. When anyone asks for my social, I can give that in it's place (or refuse) if I want. The Feds know who it is tied to and only the Feds know it belongs to me.
 
Don't forget the cleaning crew or anyone else.

Hopefully the Dr has enough sense to only hire a cleaning service that is bonded. Insurance for cleaners who work in Dr and DDS is pricey; I'm quoting someone now, but they don't clean banks or DRs.

I'm only on page 2 of this thread, but SSN are now being used to determine your insurance score. For one of my companies, if you don't provide the SSN, the premium can be $200+ more every 6 mo for auto. I have another co that can determine insurance score just with the address and DOB.
 
Hopefully the Dr has enough sense to only hire a cleaning service that is bonded. Insurance for cleaners who work in Dr and DDS is pricey; I'm quoting someone now, but they don't clean banks or DRs.

I'm only on page 2 of this thread, but SSN are now being used to determine your insurance score. For one of my companies, if you don't provide the SSN, the premium can be $200+ more every 6 mo for auto. I have another co that can determine insurance score just with the address and DOB.


I work for one of the biggest (probably THE biggest) company for healthcare ins. Our applications have a place for SSN but it is not required. If someone doesn't have their id # when callinig in (privacy laws dictate questions that must be answered before we can talk with someone), we cannot outright ask for their ssn for an identifier. Because this is such a touchy thing... hippa/ssn etc, I have to say.. "if you feel comfortable giving me your ssn #, I can look it up that way". But we cannot demand a SSN.
some people will give it, some won't. with out either SSN or ID #. We honestly can't talk with someone because the privacy info hasn't been verified.

It kind of reminds me of a phone call I got.... client wanted to pay on their premium and at that time we could only take check by phone. The client said..."Oh I never give my checking account numbers to anyone!!! Can I give you my Visa account number?"...... LOL
 
snowiit,

I don't sell health ins; just P&C. One of my companies, for example, has two buttons: rate with credit, rate without credit.

Personally, I don't like asking for SSN, but some brainiacs have linked insurance rates to credit.
 
As OceanAnnie said :eek::eek:

What exactly are you saying here? (bolded part)


I am sorry if not having my SSN makes your job a little more difficult. The less people who have my SSN, the better.

PS You do know that the account that they wrote off was not mine, it was the thief that stole my identity, right?

I don't have a dog in this SSN fight and I'm not OceanAnnie, but wanted to comment on the idea that a debt that is charged off or otherwise closed may "rise from the dead" at some later date. Debts which are uncollected (or even uncollectible) are often sold from one collection company to another, sometimes on multiple occasions. This is one category of something called "zombie debt." This article discusses it in more detail.

Not saying it's right--just saying it happens.
 
I work in law enforcement. I have seen so many cases of fraud that started with office staff stealing ss#'s that I would NEVER give it to a medical office for any reason. They can have the last four digits and if that doesn't suffice then I do NOT want their services anyway. The law states that they can refuse service, but a doctor's office that is willing to lose a patient because they won't provide their ss# is either misinformed or has ulterior motives.

The statements about "I trust him with my body so I would trust him with my ss#" is very naive. I have seen excellent doctors who have no idea what their low paid office staff are doing on their end.
 
Hopefully the Dr has enough sense to only hire a cleaning service that is bonded. Insurance for cleaners who work in Dr and DDS is pricey; I'm quoting someone now, but they don't clean banks or DRs.

I'm only on page 2 of this thread, but SSN are now being used to determine your insurance score. For one of my companies, if you don't provide the SSN, the premium can be $200+ more every 6 mo for auto. I have another co that can determine insurance score just with the address and DOB.

OK. So the doc does the bonding thing. If the person who stole my ID with SSN chose to sell it (which is usually what happens, well, my understanding anyway), how in the world do you know who stole the ID? The best way to protect IDs is to be sure everything is filed and locked at the end of the day. And unless things have changed, this is not the case.

I don't have a dog in this SSN fight and I'm not OceanAnnie, but wanted to comment on the idea that a debt that is charged off or otherwise closed may "rise from the dead" at some later date. Debts which are uncollected (or even uncollectible) are often sold from one collection company to another, sometimes on multiple occasions. This is one category of something called "zombie debt." This article discusses it in more detail.

Not saying it's right--just saying it happens.

Thank you, good info.
 

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