Reflections: A Disney Lakeside Resort

[Jacq7414]

I’m just really sad about all of the construction and things at FW that had to be taken down because of this. Sucks. Hopefully they can bring them back at some point - especially Mickey’s backyard bbq

 

[StormyCA]

Well, I'd say it's definitely off the schedule for now. Whether it's dead in the water or not, I'll reserve judgement. I expect there is some dusty file cabinet in a tiny office somewhere all the 'not now but not never' projects live.

It'll start being 'believable' for me when I see major re-landscaping done restoring the Fort to 'Wilderness' condition.

 

[80sTerraceCafeFan]

To me, they should build a "River Country Resort" on this spot. The old swimming hole theme would obviously fit great here and I think this would excite fans far more than another lightly themed resort. Also, if DVC sales are slowing, this could slide down to a moderate or moderate plus for the MK area if they prefer.

Obviously the water slides wont match that of the old water park, but they could explore some interesting things with slides over Bay Lake or into the lobby, etc....challenging Stormalong Bay for the top hotel pool spot.

 

[hertamaniac]

To me, they should build a "River Country Resort" on this spot. The old swimming hole theme would obviously fit great here and I think this would excite fans far more than another lightly themed resort. Also, if DVC sales are slowing, this could slide down to a moderate or moderate plus for the MK area if they prefer.

Obviously the water slides wont match that of the old water park, but they could explore some interesting things with slides over Bay Lake or into the lobby, etc....challenging Stormalong Bay for the top hotel pool spot.

I really like your ideas. I would think a moderate plus with boat access to MK would be a very high occupancy, consistently. Further, they could come up with some innovative water features that could utilize the lake view. Although I don't do water parks anymore, this could work in conjunction with Fort Wilderness in terms of theming.

 

[bama_ed]

Well at least the Reflections work done to date has given River Country its proper funeral (finally).

With the work that Disney has already put into the Reflections site, something will be built there (eventually).

It would have been nice to have a theme that would have tied into the Fort Wilderness vibe (Reflections was a dead end in that regard - fine in its standalone view but it sucked matching the existing resort theme (FW) around it which is so much larger). A stronger backcountry theme (beyond the Port Orleans theme) and a little more rustic would sell out SO fast for a DVC. But it wouldn't be high brow enough (that's my opinion only) for the powers that be.

If you plunk a time share resort down at Fort Wilderness, your immediate buying audience is the campers at FW who have been camping there for nearly 50 years. They've loved the trips to the Fort over the decades but they're getting older now, taking the RV is still great but requires some work, and they'd love to have easy access to FW and all its associated memories while being able to sleep in full-up bed. FW campers are some of the most loyal returning guests on property there are at WDW. Resale restrictions or can't trade to the legacy DVC resorts? Who cares? I got a time share at Fort Wilderness (essentially) and who would want to give that up (in their right mind)? You think those Class A RV's come cheap? Or an expensive trailer with a (more) expensive pickup truck to pull it? Those "poor" camping folks got enough money to buy all the Reflections points real fast - Even a River Country related theme or name (anywhere) would be a killer marketing angle.

But I can only be so obvious for the DVC folks. They're going to be obtuse. And give us a nice, unrelated, bland resort (eventually) that will (eventually) sell its points (because they won't start another DVC until a good portion of the Reflections points have been sold).

I've given out the blueprint to sell out a DVC at FW at a record pace even in these economic covid times. Even with the resale/legacy restrictions. But the needle nose accountants at DVC won't do it. Nor their managers. Because they think they know better than their guests - and that's the Disney way.

Bama Ed

PS - and I've only been camping at FW for 40 years

PPS - next FW trips are Oct/20 and Feb/21. Because why stay anywhere else?

 

[mamaofsix]

I'm wondering how many on this thread saw the latest concept art for Reflections? By all of the comments of it being boring / bland / not a good fit with the area, I am thinking not many saw the detailed art that was released, and are only going by the original art. The original, unfinished art was indeed boring. But seeing the updated plans totally changed my view.

Our family are serious wilderness campers - not of the RV and pickup truck variety, either. We camp in tents in the Canadian north with no electrical / sewer hookups. And when I saw the latest concept art, my mind totally changed on Reflections. Very heavily themed to nature and Disney character theming everywhere. To me, it seemed like the perfect fit for the area. I was looking forward to it more than any DVC we've seen. It was going to be the resort that finally made us take the plunge to ownership.

As for a return to a "River Country" type theme with water features that take advantage of the lake front, I can't really think of a better suit than what was in the final plans for Reflections... a massive lazy river and slides right on the lake front, a huge series of multiple pools that overlooked the lake, a heavily themed table service restaurant that was practically sitting on the water, as well as accommodations that were all centered on looking out at the water (hence the name - "Reflections).


To me, it's a shame it's been cancelled. If you really look into it, it checks all the boxes people are complaining it didn't have.

 

[quandrea]

I'm wondering how many on this thread saw the latest concept art for Reflections? By all of the comments of it being boring / bland / not a good fit with the area, I am thinking not many saw the detailed art that was released, and are only going by the original art. The original, unfinished art was indeed boring. But seeing the updated plans totally changed my view.

Or family are serious wilderness campers - not of the RV and pickup truck variety, either. We camp in tents in the Canadian north with no electrical / sewer hookups. And when I saw the latest concept art, my mind totally changed on Reflections. Very heavily themed to nature and Disney character theming everywhere. To me, it seemed like the perfect fit for the area. I was looking forward to it more than any DVC we've seen. It was going to be the resort that finally made us take the plunge to ownership.

As for a return to a "River Country" type theme with water features that take advantage of the lake front, I can't really think of a better suit than what was in the final plans for Reflections... a massive lazy river and slides right on the lake front, a huge series of multiple pools that overlooked the lake, a heavily themed table service restaurant that was practically sitting on the water, as well as accommodations that were all centered on looking out at the water (hence the name - "Reflections).


To me, it's a shame it's been cancelled. If you really look into it, it checks all the boxes people are complaining it didn't have.

Wholeheartedly agree! I’m not a camper, but my week long stay in a Fort Wilderness cabin got me hooked on the resort. I was so excited that I was going to be able to finally use dvc points there. You’re right that the final art work was impressive. Lots of detail, truly beautiful. I’m hoping we will see it again one day. I’m a member until 2057. Here’s hoping.

 

[hertamaniac]

I'm wondering how many on this thread saw the latest concept art for Reflections? By all of the comments of it being boring / bland / not a good fit with the area, I am thinking not many saw the detailed art that was released, and are only going by the original art. The original, unfinished art was indeed boring. But seeing the updated plans totally changed my view.

Or family are serious wilderness campers - not of the RV and pickup truck variety, either. We camp in tents in the Canadian north with no electrical / sewer hookups. And when I saw the latest concept art, my mind totally changed on Reflections. Very heavily themed to nature and Disney character theming everywhere. To me, it seemed like the perfect fit for the area. I was looking forward to it more than any DVC we've seen. It was going to be the resort that finally made us take the plunge to ownership.

As for a return to a "River Country" type theme with water features that take advantage of the lake front, I can't really think of a better suit than what was in the final plans for Reflections... a massive lazy river and slides right on the lake front, a huge series of multiple pools that overlooked the lake, a heavily themed table service restaurant that was practically sitting on the water, as well as accommodations that were all centered on looking out at the water (hence the name - "Reflections).


To me, it's a shame it's been cancelled. If you really look into it, it checks all the boxes people are complaining it didn't have.

Fair and solid points. The only issue I had with the original concept art was the outside (specifically the entrance) being too geometric/modern. Every other aspect of the plans/artwork I saw was in alignment with a good hybrid resort sandwiched between FW and FWL. The artwork I have seen on the interior was fantastic including the massive floor to ceiling windows.

But it doesn't check my box as a standalone, non-DVC resort at a moderate plus on the MK boat loop.

 

[StormyCA]

Whatever the concept the problem to me is the intrusiveness of a gazillion story tower looming over the Fort.

If they could manage a 'long and low' building or nothing but cottages, yeah, that would be great.

Oooh, that would be nice...."The Cottages at Fort Wilderness". Build real cottages (not prefab cabins) in styles that represent the different styles of lake/woods architecture of the different regions of the US.

 

[mamaofsix]

Whatever the concept the problem to me is the intrusiveness of a gazillion story tower looming over the Fort.

If they could manage a 'long and low' building or nothing but cottages, yeah, that would be great.

Oooh, that would be nice...."The Cottages at Fort Wilderness". Build real cottages (not prefab cabins) in styles that represent the different styles of lake/woods architecture of the different regions of the US.

You're pretty much describing the concept they had. It was designed as long and low to blend in with the surroundings - 6 stories at it's very highest. (Bay Lake Tower is 15 stories, Wilderness Lodge is 8 for reference), and a variety of cottages in different architectural lake/woods styles all along the shore...

 

[firefly_ris]

I think even 6 is too big. Not that it matters at this point anyway...

 

[StormyCA]

You're pretty much describing the concept they had. It was designed as long and low to blend in with the surroundings - 6 stories at it's very highest. (Bay Lake Tower is 15 stories, Wilderness Lodge is 8 for reference), and a variety of cottages in different architectural lake/woods styles all along the shore...



View attachment 517628

View attachment 517626

View attachment 517629

View attachment 517630

I'm thinking like 2 stories max, if they must have 'hotel rooms'. And 'traditional' cottages like clapboard, log cabin, prairie, maybe a stone style. Not 1970s A-frame and glass 'industrial' styles. Something that fits with FtW's 'rusticity' and WL's Arts & Crafts.

 

[bama_ed]

I'm thinking like 2 stories max, if they must have 'hotel rooms'. And 'traditional' cottages like clapboard, log cabin, prairie, maybe a stone style. Not 1970s A-frame and glass 'industrial' styles. Something that fits with FtW's 'rusticity' and WL's Arts & Crafts.

Exactly.

It would be like taking Grand Floridian Villas and plopping them down next to Animal Kingdom Lodge.

GF villas nice in their own respects? Sure - they will appeal to some people.

GF villas blend in with AK Lodge and its larger surroundings? Not one bit.

Put Reflections in the middle of nowhere on the edge of some body of water and folks will find something on their own to connect with it. But drop it next to one of the original WDW resorts (yeah, I know, they pulled the manpower off FW to finish MK for Roy but it opened withing 30 days after so you get the point) and it clashes.

Since they'll never expand the Fort, a Fort-similar themed DVC would sell like a rocket.

GF Villas look sorta like GF? Check.

Poly Bungalows look sorta like Poly? Check.

WL Copper Creek Cabins look sorta like WL? Check.

BLT looks sorta like Contemp (sleek/modern)? Check.

Reflections looks sorta like Fort Wilderness? MASSIVE FAIL.

But Disney will promote a disconnected time share design unless they see the light.

They are determined, they are, to push that stone of Sisyphus up the hill. And with enough corporate backing and resources, they will eventually make it to the top. Because a corporate ego is an expensive thing.

But a Fort/ frontier/ rustic/ western/ colononial-even theme would knock the socks off the sales and marketing side. But again, that's too obvious.

Bama Ed

PS - take the Reflections design and drop it on the far side of Bay Lake (northeast corner of BL) and build it there. It won't conflict or clash with any other designs because there is nothing out there. But Disney is trying to cheap their way out (again) and leverage existing infrastructure to lower the Reflec cost. But if it's such a great design, it would be successful way out there by itself somewhere, no?

PPS - and Reflections doesn't leverage anything off Wilderness Lodge (no more than it does the Poly) because it's a bowling ball toss from Fort Wilderness and over a third of a mile through some dense woods to WL:

Every other aspect of the plans/artwork I saw was in alignment with a good hybrid resort sandwiched between FW and FWL.

As a reminder, it's not FWL btw. They're just FW or WL but no combo (a common mistake). However, my point is that Reflec is essentially "disconnected" from any WL theme (which is National Park-American West related).

 

[StormyCA]

Exactly.

It would be like taking Grand Floridian Villas and plopping them down next to Animal Kingdom Lodge.

GF villas nice in their own respects? Sure - they will appeal to some people.

GF villas blend in with AK Lodge and its larger surroundings? Not one bit.

Put Reflections in the middle of nowhere on the edge of some body of water and folks will find something on their own to connect with it. But drop it next to one of the original WDW resorts (yeah, I know, they pulled the manpower off FW to finish MK for Roy but it opened withing 30 days after so you get the point) and it clashes.

Since they'll never expand the Fort, a Fort-similar themed DVC would sell like a rocket.

GF Villas look sorta like GF? Check.

Poly Bungalows look sorta like Poly? Check.

WL Copper Creek Cabins look sorta like WL? Check.

BLT looks sorta like Contemp (sleek/modern)? Check.

Reflections looks sorta like Fort Wilderness? MASSIVE FAIL.

But Disney will promote a disconnected time share design unless they see the light.

They are determined, they are, to push that stone of Sisyphus up the hill. And with enough corporate backing and resources, they will eventually make it to the top. Because a corporate ego is an expensive thing.

But a Fort/ frontier/ rustic/ western/ colononial-even theme would knock the socks off the sales and marketing side. But again, that's too obvious.

Bama Ed

PS - take the Reflections design and drop it on the far side of Bay Lake (northeast corner of BL) and build it there. It won't conflict or clash with any other designs because there is nothing out there. But Disney is trying to cheap their way out (again) and leverage existing infrastructure to lower the Reflec cost. But if it's such a great design, it would be successful way out there by itself somewhere, no?

PPS - and Reflections doesn't leverage anything off Wilderness Lodge (no more than it does the Poly) because it's a bowling ball toss from Fort Wilderness and over a third of a mile through some dense woods to WL:



As a reminder, it's not FWL btw. They're just FW or WL but no combo (a common mistake). However, my point is that Reflec is essentially "disconnected" from any WL theme (which is National Park-American West related).

Bang on the money!

 

[hertamaniac]

You're pretty much describing the concept they had. It was designed as long and low to blend in with the surroundings - 6 stories at it's very highest. (Bay Lake Tower is 15 stories, Wilderness Lodge is 8 for reference), and a variety of cottages in different architectural lake/woods styles all along the shore...



View attachment 517628

View attachment 517626

View attachment 517629

View attachment 517630

I think the gull wing entrance artwork had a variant that didn't have the exposed darker beams.

The offerings of different types of accommodations is impressive. I would like to see some of the angularity removed/softened and lean towards a little more rustic, but that's my personal preference. I think this fits so nicely between Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort & Campground and Disney's Wilderness Lodge with the theming.

 

[jknezek]

I think the gull wing entrance artwork had a variant that didn't have the exposed darker beams.

The offerings of different types of accommodations is impressive. I would like to see some of the angularity removed/softened and lean towards a little more rustic, but that's my personal preference. I think this fits so nicely between Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort & Campground and Disney's Wilderness Lodge with the theming.

Yes. If only they had put it more in the middle instead of right on top of The Fort, so close they had to move the barn, shut down the Backyard BBQ, and steal the existing beach, I'd agree. But since they cheaped out and wanted to drop it dead on top, with a parking lot backing up to Fort Wilderness, it was a massive imposition that I'm glad has been, at least temporarily, shelved.

 

[ParrotBill]

...
As a reminder, it's not FWL btw. They're just FW or WL but no combo (a common mistake). However, my point is that Reflec is essentially "disconnected" from any WL theme (which is National Park-American West related).

This is why every time I stay at WL, I see people on a bus who are surprised when we pull up to the bus stop, asking when we get to FW. Disney has GOT to stop naming major things with the same root word. Don't get me started on "Springs".

 

[bama_ed]

Bang on the money!

Oh sure. Even Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles can see my point as clear as day.

Every other aspect of the plans/artwork I saw was in alignment with a good hybrid resort sandwiched between FW and FWL.

This is why every time I stay at WL, I see people on a bus who are surprised when we pull up to the bus stop, asking when we get to FW. Disney has GOT to stop naming major things with the same root word. Don't get me started on "Springs".

Well, yeah. That's the limited awareness of the interns in the WDW bunker. They're only a hair's breath away from middle management but creativity in the naming category (thus marketing) is not their strong suit. And neither is a simple Excel spreadsheet apparently.

Bama Ed

PS - and don't just take my word for it - the past few decades of Dis DVC are FULL of non-creativity.

PPS - and faking spreadsheets can be easy. Locking them in before executing the plan and then going back to see who's spreadsheet prediction is right is where you lose all the whiny kids.

PPPS - I love WL and its original DVC for what it is. Great unique theme and very nice setting. But enough of the lame bland Reflec overpriced time shares already (which will sell out eventually of course, blah blah blah, because there are enough sheeple out there to buy those points in the long run).

But I offer this - 18 months sellout of 90% of the points if Reflections were FW themed..... But none of the interns want to stick their neck out on a sure home run. (except me)

 

[hertamaniac]

Yes. If only they had put it more in the middle instead of right on top of The Fort, so close they had to move the barn, shut down the Backyard BBQ, and steal the existing beach, I'd agree. But since they cheaped out and wanted to drop it dead on top, with a parking lot backing up to Fort Wilderness, it was a massive imposition that I'm glad has been, at least temporarily, shelved.

I think the barn needed to be updated/replaced based on my last visit when it was operational.

I don't have an issue with the location, but the outside architecture is too stark in the current concept art. If they could shoehorn in nice walking paths between the three resorts, then I look upon it favorably. There were plenty of times we've stayed at Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort & Campground and would have wanted to walk to a restaurant offering that wasn't at Disney's Wilderness Lodge or the aforementioned resort. I think Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge would have fit that bill.

 

[umichigan10]

I think the barn needed to be updated/replaced based on my last visit when it was operational.

I don't have an issue with the location, but the outside architecture is too stark in the current concept art. If they could shoehorn in nice walking paths between the three resorts, then I look upon it favorably. There were plenty of times we've stayed at Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort & Campground and would have wanted to walk to a restaurant offering that wasn't at Disney's Wilderness Lodge or the aforementioned resort. I think Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge would have fit that bill.

I really love the buffalo junction concept they had in the 90s to put in between the lodge and fort. It fits the theming much better but I really doubt the suits would want to go ahead with a theme like that