Reduced Hours Confirmed!! - How sad.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Well read it and weep! I found this item reported on my Newsgroup and also Dave Koenig, from MousePlanet is reporting the same thing.

Reduced Adventureland Hours Article

I don't know if you really care about this issue or not. For me it is of paramount importance. Recently, the executives at Disney seem to have this 'herd' mentality. They want to keep the numbers of guests in a particular attraction or area high enough to justify its existence. So we can all kiss goodbye the wonderful, special, and magic filled moments that we can all experience from time to time, by discovering that little out of the way area that is a little less crowded than usual. Or that attraction that can be walked right on to at a certain time of day. They seem very intent on herding us into lines, with blatant disregard for guest satisfaction.

Another case of the bottom line greatly overshadowing the Disney experience! What a loss. How sad that this mentality is becoming more and more acceptable. It appears that it is now the norm rather than the rare exception!

 

[Peter Pirate]

Even I think this is sad, sad, sad. Surely there can be other ways to save a couple of bucks. I dislike these things being slid in, no explanation, no comment. The reduction of MK Park hours this summer was really ridiculous and this is coming from someoone who spends little time at MK, but the time I used to like to spend was late evening...Now this! I have always supported cost cutting measures when they've made sense to me, but on this I agree Landbaron, this affects the Show directly. We're not talking Valet Parking or slow bus transportation, we're talking about the REAL DEAL SHOW...

 

[All Aboard]

Well doesn't this just stink. I really hate to see this happen, I did not expect anything quite like this. Now I'm really fearful that we'll see more of this type of thing. What scares me the most is that even if conomic conditions find their stride again, these changes may become permanent. I'm not making any more excuses for WDW now, it's official - I'm in Car #2 (which I defined as "The Magic has faded a bit, but I am optimistic that it will make a full return.) I continue to hold optimism, but things like these have me worried. Landbaron knows how I feel. Sorry Captain, Duck, Scoop... hope I'm back soon.

So, I guess the 100% of the Splash Dash will run through Liberty Square now!!

 

[YoHo]

Okay, I just got done ranting on the Debate board about threads wasting server space and you three, are my DIS buds and all, but was there some reason we had to start a new thread instead of replying to one with a very descriptive WDW Adventurland hours topic started at 8am CDT this morning?

Sorry, to be a pain, Like I said, still on a high from my Debate board rant.


By the way, this sucks. Waiting for Safari Steve Confirmation on the other thread.

 

[DisDuck]

Someone should find the appropriate e-mail address (particularly, Pressler's) and all 20,000+ members of DIS should immediately send off a note on this.

You see, DVC, not everything done I agree with. I actually liked the idea of walking thru a quiet but open Adventureland on my way to Frontierland. If this remains then when I go in June/2002 all I will hear is the 'sounds of silence'.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

was there some reason we had to start a new thread instead of replying to one with a very descriptive WDW Adventurland hours topic started at 8am CDT this morning?

Yeah! There certainly is! One of the best reasons I can think of. When I discovered the MousePlanet article, in my zeal to bring you the hottest of Disney news, I made a mistake and hit the 'new thread' button. I noticed it right away and tried to delete it (many times) but it just wouldn't let me!! I don't know why, I had done it before, but for some reason this time I couldn't do it.

Sorry!!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

OK gang!! Just for informational purposes only and specifically NOT an aspect of an organized campaign, the following is offered:

Mr. Michael Eisner
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4873

Mr. Paul Pressler
Chairman & President
Walt Disney Parks & Resorts
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4873

Mr. Al Weiss
President
The Walt Disney World Resort
PO Box 10040
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

Or you can zip off an e-mail HERE

Now don't just give lip service. DO IT!!!!!

Thanks.

 

[HBK]

Did they cut the prices of your admission pass to correspond to the reduction of things to do?

That was a hypothetical by the way.

In case some of you don't know, there is currently a lawsuit running against Six Flags re: their Pay for fast pass program. The basis of the lawsuit is this....The woman is arguing that the pay for fast pass actually devaulues her previously purchased season pass.

Couldn't one make the same arguement that cutting back hours to guests who have previously purchased park media under the assumption that all functioning rides would be open during the park's operating hours?

This move stinks. There's no way to put it, and I find some of the cross overs (car pool wise) interesting, and sad for Disney's sake. It appears even their most staunch supporters are starting to become disenchanted.

Sad.

 

[YoHo]

Sorry Landbaron, You see, My beef was twofold,
1: I saw that you had posted a comment on the rumours board and rushed to gleen your insight only to find that it was a topic previously covered (thus disappointment)
2: Had to stick up for the little guy, you'll noticed you commanded the attention of the Peter Pirate, Gcurling, DisDuck and HBK.
Let the little guy get some posts too

At any rate, I'm just yanking Chains.

The most depressing thing is that I'm reminded that PotC is no longer an E-night attraction. Stupid modern society failing to see that this is the greatest attraction ever conceived. Spiderman isn't fit to be PotC's preshow.

Again, still waiting for the Safari Steve confirmation.

 

[gary]

My gut feeling about a cut like this is I HATE IT!, and (thanks Landbaron!) the Disney powers-that-be will be getting a letter from me. Not that I have any expectation of the letter making it past the N levels of flunkies (some admin somewhere will probably be responsible for making a PRO/CON tally sheet and sending out "Thank you for your comments regarding..." form letters).

But... (god, I hate doing the Devil's Advocate thing) if the attendance at the park is so light as to keep an entire land's worth of CMs sitting around for an hour with their thumbs... well, you know, then maybe it makes some kind of sense. I'm really struggling to be reasonable and objective here, because I HATE IT! And, of course, being a Californian, I've seen it many times at Disneyland... that stupid rope with the stupid blue pennant standing between me and my stupid fix of stupid Jungle Cruise jokes!

Spin - if you close the whole park, then open up the most popular attractions, it's popular enough that you can charge people for it. If you open the park, but keep a less popular small section closed off, you get burned at the stake. Funny how marketing can influence perception.

One final note - even if it's economically acceptable, it is an unacceptable intrusion into the (oft-discussed) SHOW. I really liked the comment in the article about how Walt wanted everything open if the park was open. Sometimes you need to spend money and make a little less profit, and just worry about doing it right!

Gary

 

[JeffJewell]

...to notice what sorts of straws will end up breaking different camel's backs.

I didn't comment on the other "hours cut" thread because this didn't seem like a big deal to me, at all, particularly compared to the other ways they've "saved money" recently.

Back in the middle of May I had a few public meltdowns on the boards about Disney cutting hours (to whole parks, mind you, not limited to one low-traffic area) at Magic Kingdom, Disney Studios, and Animal Kingdom, anywhere from five to two(!) weeks before the cuts went into effect. And eliminating several SpectroMagic and Fantasmic performances per week with the same amount of warning. And cancelling meals for which they had already issued PS numbers. Again, all this was done long after a vactioner could reasonably expect to make new PS to accomodate new show times and closed restaurants.

All that seemed okay to quite a few folks on the boards who vigorously defended Disney at that time, including at least two who've posted their disappointment in this thread, after telling me that my earlier complaints were unfounded Disney-bashing.

So come on (both of you should know who you are), explain to me how this can be such a bad thing, when you argued so vehemently in May that those cuts weren't bad at all?

Jeff

PS - No, of course I'm not defending Disney for this, I think it's a stupid way to save a relatively inconsequential amount of money. It's just very interesting to me that a whole series of last-minute cuts that directly affected people's vacations was largely blown off by people who suddenly discover outrage over a single cut that will ultimately have little direct affect on what a person can or can't do on their trip.

 

[larworth]

Following on the rumors about higher maintenance budgets, some of the supporting comments by CM's, and the fact that several rides were going into rehab just prior, I assumed they were at least planning to start off Walt's celebration with their best parade face on.

Why not wait until after the holidays to inact this. It would still be the wrong thing to do, but it would have less of an immediate impact on guests and be a little more PR friendly. They don't think the timing here is bad?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

The most depressing thing is that I'm reminded that PotC is no longer an E-night attraction. Stupid modern society failing to see that this is the greatest attraction ever conceived.

I don't think that's the right take on it. First of all there is location. Pirates is tucked away a little. And it is also one of the older rides, so many repeats defer it to times when the lines are shorter or skip it altogether, catching it next year instead. There isn't that 'rush' for it first thing off the bat that they never really recover from and therefore keeps the line extremely long all day. And lastly, it is very quick loading and can utilize both queues at the same time. We therefore have an attraction that never has a line over 30 minutes and many, many times, you can walk right on. A constant stream, but never overly backed up. The Country Bears is the same way and Haunted Mansion was as well before they, stupidly, instituted fastpass there (and still most times the fastpass return is only fifteen to minutes later than waiting). I think that huge back up in the morning really effects a good part of the day.

As far as e-ticket worthy, I think the decision lies mainly with opening up Advetureland for just that one ride. It certainly has more appeal that the Peoplemover, but because it doesn't have extremely long lines during normal business hours many people wouldn't consider wasting part of their precious three hours trekking over to Pirates when any afternoon can result in the same wait time!! The only reason Country Bears, Haunted Mansion and especially the Peoplemover is included in e-ticket nights is because of their location. If they were in another land there isn't a chance in hell that they would be e-ticket rides! Conversely, Peter Pan and the new Pooh ride should be, but they don't want to open Fantasyland!!

No, e-tickets are really not for e-ticket rides (although they usually fall that way), it's for 'hot' ticket attractions or conveniently grouped attractions in a location (along with appropriate shops and food stands) as to justify the "Land's" opening.

 

[Another Voice]

Well this one certainly brought back everyone. As gary and the article both described, we in the West been living with these “guest service” issues for a long time now. It’s safe to say that the lower attendance at WDW has little to do with the closing, and the financial burdens being placed on Attractions is the primary cause. For five years now the Parks have been the growth and cash generator for the company. With the problems at Consumer Products, Networks, and Film you can guess which division is being squeezed to make up the earnings shortfalls?

The closings at Disneyland started at the height of the economy and of attendance, and they provided a real nice boost in the numbers that Mr. Pressler reported to his boss. The cutbacks became standard practice out here and those “temporary” cost savings became permanent and were built into Disneyland’s expected financial performance. And now that things are soft, the first response to make even deeper cuts than closing off lands and attractions. We’re looking at having whole parks closed for the entire day – another “temporary” measure to cut costs. As the saying goes, trends start in California.

Speaking of trends, the new McDonalds stand inside Disneyland just opened. They’re charging $2.50 for a medium order of fries. Rumors are claiming a general price hike on all food is just around the corner.

 

[Buzz2001]

This is ridiculous. If a park opens, it should ALL be open to the guests. More of Pressler trying to keep the stock holders happy by providing a bigger dividend.

I am going to send a letter. Thanks for the addreses landbaron

 

[hulabird]

I have no doubt that Walt is rolling in his grave with anger over this!
This is stupid and then they wonder why attendance is down.

Hulabird

 

[DC7800]

This seems like a bad idea on several fronts. First, I can't see how it saves all that much money. Disney basically saves the cost of wages and little else (power, fuel???). Items like maintenance are still going to cost about the same. I don't see how this adds up to significant savings.

Secondly, I know Disney is expensive (and I am not advocating this) but wouldn't raising ticket prices by a few dollars (literally $3) make a bigger difference in the bottom line than all the closings/reduced hours we've heard about so far? If I'm going to pay even current prices, I want a quality experience which exceeds my expectations - and I would rather pay lust a little more than be disappointed (considering what my vacation costs, the extra $10-$15 is nothing).

Finally, this is confusing to guests. Who can keep track of the current "odd" attraction hours? Lets see - I have to see the Hall of Presidents before 6, but no, it's closed anyway. Ok, I'll see COP after 11 but by 5 p.m., then catch the Tiki Birds after dinner. Oops, The Tiki Room closed about 6 p.m. too. I could head over to Epcot for the evening, but just what are the reduced hours I heard for The Living Seas?

 

[All Aboard]

JJ, for me it comes down to this. MK closes as early as 6 or 7pm during the slower times of the year. It's open later on Saturdays and an hour later here or there depending on anticipated traffic. In the summer it's open even later. Closing time is an adjustable thing. It's been that way for a long time. When they adjusted the closing times v. last year, it seemed in response to anticipated lighter crowds. I could buy that. I didn't like it, but it seemed a responsible reaction to the conditions. Yes, I'm concerned that it's permanent. I don't recall telling you that you were bashing Disney uneccesarily, but if I did, I apologize. Also, earlier this year (before I got to know everyone here better) I felt like the lone voice in defense of Disney amongst a bunch of folks that had it in for the mouse. I reactively defended in almost every case.

However, this is more petty and the financial impact seems fairly small. Let's assume that 20 employees show up an hour later to work now. That's a savings of maybe $200 a day. Big deal. And for that, we get a roped off major area of the park. It stinks, it really does. We just keep getting more and more bad news. Others have "had it" earlier. With Yoho it was the rumored elimination of resort water launches (if I recall). This just pushed me a little further. It's petty, silly and totally unwarranted. Are we to assume that every attraction or land will begin to have it's own schedule now? Seems that way. First it was ToonTown then CoP, then Tiki Birds, then Timekeeper, now all of Adventureland. What about Asia? That was rumored to be opening an hour later, as well.

 

[larworth]

This is just a temporary measure until the new sensors can get installed.

Whenever the attendence in a land falls below a certain level (that needed to cover the out of pocket cash flow target) an evacuation horn sounds. Everyone is forced to exit and that land remains closed for the next hour. By that time demand should have built up enough to justify opening back up (at least that is the theory at this point). If this happens more than twice that land is closed down for the remainder of the day.

In fact this will be made into a type of attraction. Signs will be posted around the park warning guests when attendance in a location is getting close to the closure level. They believe people will naturally be drawn to the endangered land to keep it from closing. The 100th new person to enter will be given a pin.

This will make people feel very empowered. This magical feeling has been shown to make people want something to commemorate the event. T-shirts will be placed in all the shops saying things like "I saved Frontierland".

 

[JeffH]

I also understand that if an attraction fails to fill three cars in a row, then all the CMs must take their 15 minute break, at which time the line will have backed up sufficiently to keep them busy until their next break.

Seems rediculus to me.
20 CMs seems about right (including the shops).
That would be about = to about 4 paying customers.