Reasons for no gratuity in 2008 DDP???

[a1tinkfans]

We signed up for the DDP for next August's trip...our first since 1990.

Sure, I was disappointed to see the changes in the plan; it was a complete STEAL before. Now it's just a decent deal. But even if we break even, it will mean that we don't have to bring a ton of extra money or charge all those meals.

In the real world, there is no dining plan. Whenever we go out to eat, we determine the tip. (We tip a uniform 20%. We round up the bill and divide by 5.) I'm sure that even the most dedicated DIS addict occasionally goes out to eat outside of WDW and faces the issue of how to tip. (In NY, sales tax is 8%. Last year I taught my 7th grade students that when they're in NY they can double the tax.)

In the final analysis, the plan is what it is. What it used to be doesn't matter any longer. People should take a look at the numbers as they apply to the trip in question, and determine whether or not the plan seems to make sense for this trip, not compare it to values past. (Remember when there was such a thing as "penny candy"??? The fact that my Tootsie Roll now costs $.69 doesn't mean I'll boycott it because of the change in prices.)

"could not have said it better, and didn't", LOL

 

[NMW]

I do think Disney's changes can be attributed somewhat to customers complaints. I read tons of threads over the years where people complained of bad service as a result of the dining plan and were unhappy with the automatic tip. Well, now it's gone. Everybody happy now?

I also have read tons of threads where people complain about how the dining plan was just "too much food" "too much food" "too much food"-I can't tell you how sick and tired I was of reading that in people's reviews of the dining plan. In the past year I stopped reading reviews that started out with "Well, first of all, the dining plan was just too much food..." No one held a gun to their head and MADE them order the food! Now Disney has taken the appetizer away. Everybody happy now? I certainly have not read any posts from the "oh, it was just too much food" complainers stating that they are happy with Disney's changes. I wonder why.

 

[Luv2Roam]

We have been Disneyholics a short time in comparison to many here. But one thing we discovered years ago is if there are constant complaints about something, whatever it is often not improved to be better. It is just eliminated. The last complaint issues are gone (and replaced with complaining it has changed. ). I have seen this many times over.
Complain a service is too slow/long/expensive/unorganized, etc. Boom. Gone entirely. No more complaints!

 

[TiggerCat]

Disney guest reps are blaming the change on servers. First off, even if this was true, they shouldn't say it. Secondly, it is exactly not true and completely false. Am I saying the customer rep should give the real reason? No. Should they blame the little man either? NO.

Where are you getting your information from? Where is the subtantive proof that other Disney employees are blaming the servers? Are you making your assumptions based on one or two replies on this board? And what is the motive of the Disney guest employees?

You seem to be very intent on deflecting all blame away from the server yet it was your union that agreed to these changes and regardless how you feel, the union speaks for the servers. If you are not happy with the results that your union has negotiated for you, then perhaps you should consider decertifying.

 

[Dizserver]

Where are you getting your information from? Where is the subtantive proof that other Disney employees are blaming the servers? Are you making your assumptions based on one or two replies on this board? And what is the motive of the Disney guest employees?

You seem to be very intent on deflecting all blame away from the server yet it was your union that agreed to these changes and regardless how you feel, the union speaks for the servers. If you are not happy with the results that your union has negotiated for you, then perhaps you should consider decertifying.

You need to re-read the entire post about the union negiotiations. Once you educate yourself on the issue, then we can talk.

 

[bicker]

Disney and the union came to an agreement, and both sides of an agreement bear equal responsibility for the terms and conditions of that agreement.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

"DIS is filled with "Disney geeks". Sites like mousesavers and allears do a better job providing good information for "normal guests". Actually the non-forum version of this site http://www.wdwinfo.com/ is also a good resource."

I have to say that this remark bothered me this morning, maybe not enough coffee, whatever, but I do not consider myself a Disney geek.....maybe you were speaking generally that more Disney fanatics post on the Dis.. I usually do not take things so personally, but this whole sentence was unsettling to me. This is probably because I do know how hard the people who do the content for the Dis work and that it is not just a 9 to 5 job. They have to search out the information from Disney and push to get it as soon as possible, put it together for us in easier terms and then post it in a friendly manner. Not an easy to do 24 7.. but they do it.

I am not sure how many times we can discuss the gratuity for DDP 2008, but I figure there will be many more posts when people find out that the gratuity is not included.

 

[Katiebell]

Which is appropriate. Never let the customers see your disagreement with your employees/with your boss. Never.

No company wants its dirty laundry aired, but that's the only way the public will find out if a company is treating its employees unfairly. And sometimes it's the only way, short of a strike, to get employers to change unfair policies. If the employer thinks the employees are being unfair, they have the same right to share that information with the public.

The real complaint is the removal of the included gratuity without the corresponding ($5-$10 /guest/day) reduction in the cost of the plan. The guests real complaint is with the price increase of the plan. Disney wanted to make the dining plan more profitable. The collective bargaining agreement allowed Disney to take this approach in raising prices. Dropping the gratuity and appetizer is probably a lot easier to market then a $10-$15 price increase. Some people think $40 is price point, certainly $50 would be.

Bingo. And it is a huge price increase...and kind of sly and indirect, because most folks have not seriously sat down and considered exactly how great the value of that included tip was. The price went down $1 per day, and the customer lost the appetizer valued at $6-$9, as well as the tip -- on a $70 dinner tab for two (not unrealistic, after drinks, entrees, and dessert), that's an additional 12.60 OOP, if you tip 18%. JimMIA hit the nail on the head -- this is a dramatic price increase, and the consumers are not benefiting from it all.

Sure, I was disappointed to see the changes in the plan; it was a complete STEAL before. Now it's just a decent deal. But even if we break even, it will mean that we don't have to bring a ton of extra money or charge all those meals.

I agree, the DDP used to be an excellent bargain. Now the new plan is an OK deal, but I know for sure we can eat less expensively OOP -- just not as extravagantly. We'd go back to selecting chicken instead of steak, sharing one dessert, sharing larger meals, ordering an appetizer as an entree, etc. -- just like we do at Disneyland (which doesn't have anything like the DDP). The servers will lose out -- not that we will change the percent we tip, but because our overall dinner tabs will be lower. We bought the DDP in May 2007, but would definitely not buy the 2008 version. It will still be worth it for some folks, though, obviously.

In the final analysis, the plan is what it is. What it used to be doesn't matter any longer. People should take a look at the numbers as they apply to the trip in question, and determine whether or not the plan seems to make sense for this trip, not compare it to values past. (Remember when there was such a thing as "penny candy"??? The fact that my Tootsie Roll now costs $.69 doesn't mean I'll boycott it because of the change in prices.)

Yup, and phone calls aren't a dime anymore, and Coke isn't .25 a can...and when was the last time gas was under $2 a gallon? Ah, but we can reminisce about the good old days...

I do think Disney's changes can be attributed somewhat to customers complaints. I read tons of threads over the years where people complained of bad service as a result of the dining plan and were unhappy with the automatic tip. Well, now it's gone. Everybody happy now?

I also have read tons of threads where people complain about how the dining plan was just "too much food" "too much food" "too much food"-I can't tell you how sick and tired I was of reading that in people's reviews of the dining plan. In the past year I stopped reading reviews that started out with "Well, first of all, the dining plan was just too much food..." No one held a gun to their head and MADE them order the food! Now Disney has taken the appetizer away. Everybody happy now? I certainly have not read any posts from the "oh, it was just too much food" complainers stating that they are happy with Disney's changes. I wonder why.

Excellent point, but I don't wonder why at all. If the price had gone down $6-$9 per adult (the average cost of an appetizer), not to mention a decrease in the cost to make up for the included tip that was lost...then we might see more folks warming up to the idea.

Just a couple of additional thoughts:

We had the plan in May, and got good to excellent service at every single restaurant. Not ONE server was rude, dismissive, or inattentive because the gratuity was automatically included. We got the wonderful service we've come to expect from Disney.

The costs are going up across the board. I just read the most recent menus for DL, and I don't know if we will ever eat dinner at the Blue Bayou again, because the price has increased so much. The atmosphere is really cool, but still...

And for those who are lamenting the loss of the appetizer, try Boma. Since it's a buffet, all soups, salads, appetizers, and desserts are included, and almost everything we tried was wonderful.

 

[Lewisc]

Geek is a word that is slang and can be used by different people in different ways. I'm sure you're not reading it that way I'm using it. Best Buy has a "geek squad" to provide technical assistance to guests. I'm using "geek" in that context.

Sites like wdwinfo.com , mousesavers and allears give concise information that is easy to use. A person who just want useful information can get a lot of information in a reasonable amount of time.

The forums on DIS are loaded with threads discussing things like "how big a crime is it to use old mugs", "how bad is it when guests exceed room occupancy" and guests wanting to know how to change non-refundable air tickets. There are many threads speculating how the changes in the DDP might affect servers. There is a lot of "noise and static" along with good information.

A person who isn't a "disney geek" has a lot of somewhat irrelevent threads to go through and some of the useful thread may be buried. The search function doesn't work that well.

I don't think the forums on DIS is a great source for a guest who doesn't go to Disney that often and wants to get a lot of information in a reasonable amount of time.

My point was made in response to the poster that sent an employee to DIS, to plan for a Disney trip and that person got totally confused. This puts my comments in context.

Thanks stichlover, My secretary is planning her first trip to WDW next april. I foolishly told her to check out these boards to get some info. Bad idea! From all the post, the poor girl doesn't know if she should boycott WDW because of all the poor cm's getting stiffed from their gratuity or she's worried that she'll need a degree in Accounting just to keep track of credits

"DIS is filled with "Disney geeks". Sites like mousesavers and allears do a better job providing good information for "normal guests". Actually the non-forum version of this site http://www.wdwinfo.com/ is also a good resource."

I have to say that this remark bothered me this morning, maybe not enough coffee, whatever, but I do not consider myself a Disney geek.....maybe you were speaking generally that more Disney fanatics post on the Dis.. I usually do not take things so personally, but this whole sentence was unsettling to me. This is probably because I do know how hard the people who do the content for the Dis work and that it is not just a 9 to 5 job. They have to search out the information from Disney and push to get it as soon as possible, put it together for us in easier terms and then post it in a friendly manner. Not an easy to do 24 7.. but they do it.

I am not sure how many times we can discuss the gratuity for DDP 2008, but I figure there will be many more posts when people find out that the gratuity is not included.

 

[bicker]

No company wants its dirty laundry aired, but that's the only way the public will find out if a company is treating its employees unfairly.

It is incredibly self-centered and unprofessional for an employee to air dirty laundry in front of a customer. You don't poop where you live.

And sometimes it's the only way, short of a strike, to get employers to change unfair policies.

Strike or quit; those are the defensible choices.

If the employer thinks the employees are being unfair, they have the same right to share that information with the public.

Absolutely 100% incorrect. Employers should always respect employee privacy. Always.

... most folks have not seriously sat down and considered exactly how great the value of that included tip was.

Tell me about it. It was very strange, for the past few years, reading all these complaints about the Dining Plan, given how incredibly generous the plan has been until now.

I agree, the DDP used to be an excellent bargain. Now the new plan is an OK deal

Which is the way it should be, as far as Disney is concerned.

The costs are going up across the board. I just read the most recent menus for DL, and I don't know if we will ever eat dinner at the Blue Bayou again, because the price has increased so much.

Someone else mentioned earlier that the 2008 Dining Plan will look even better when folks get a look at how much (OOP) menu prices will increase in 2008.

 

[Sammie]

Disney and the union came to an agreement, and both sides of an agreement bear equal responsibility for the terms and conditions of that agreement.

That pretty much sums it up and anything else is a moot point. Regardless of which side wanted what and believe me on both sides, Disney and the servers, there is not total agreement even on the same side.

The end result is that at this time the gratuity is not included.

 

[CarolAnnC]

I would think allowing the diners to leave the tip voluntarily would be a plus. I would imagine they could have just raised the price of the DDP by 18% for next year and still included the tip. This way, if there is poor service, which I have not experienced in 30+ trips save for one, it can be so noted via the tip left or not left.

At least they still offer Free Dining Packages from what I have read....

 

[Mackey Mouse]

I am thinking we have 8 pages of discussion, ranting etc for no gratuity on 2008 DDP.. and we have a thread on this board that is specifically for discussion, ranting and venting about the 2008 DDP stuck at the top of this DDP board.....

I am locking this thread now and ask if you would like to discuss, vent, rant about gratuities not being included in 2008, that you continue the discussion on that thread...

FYI, http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1539177