re:Renting Points Rules

[mic_KY_mouses]

Even though I have a low post count I do support the new post count requirements and choose to look at it as a positive change. I will try and become more active in the community. As I have said before on this same topic....by the time I get to review posts the person already has their answer and my input would be extraneous.

I will try and chime in more on other topics. I have always done searches for my answers, as has been suggested before, and I have always hesitated welcoming new DVC members because I felt like I wasn't a "regular".

Would "Welcome to DVC" posts count? I remember how good I felt when I first became a member and got all the welcomes. I have been guilty of not posting on those and thought It might be a good way to increase my posts and make new members feel welcome.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Even though I have a low post count I do support the new post count requirements and choose to look at it as a positive change. I will try and become more active in the community. As I have said before on this same topic....by the time I get to review posts the person already has their answer and my input would be extraneous.

I will try and chime in more on other topics. I have always done searches for my answers, as has been suggested before, and I have always hesitated welcoming new DVC members because I felt like I wasn't a "regular".

Would "Welcome to DVC" posts count? I remember how good I felt when I first became a member and got all the welcomes. I have been guilty of not posting on those and thought It might be a good way to increase my posts and make new members feel welcome.

To the posters who think they are too late to post because Diane or I have already posted the answer, there are so many threads that you can post. Anytime someone asks "What is SSR like" or "tell me the best place to stay at OKW" anyone who has stayed there can offer up their viewpoint. The restaurant board is a great place to post because people are always looking for dining suggestions.

 

[RobDoc]

It didn't "come from" anywhere, it's an observation. Given the fact that the rules have changed relatively frequently in recent times (the elimination of reservations wanted, and two different standards for posting points for rent) it would seem to me that you have not found it straightforward to come up with a set of mechanisms that enforces the principles you desire.

As I said, trying to walk the line that DIS seems to want to walk is a challenge, because at its core, renting reservations is commerce, not community. Trying to paper over the former with the patina of the latter doesn't change this fact. But, again, not my football.

So, you are stating that your observation alone is proof of something beyond your own opinion? While you are more than welcome to your own opinion, please don't try to state that it "proves" anything unless you are prepared to support that observation with something of substance. In academia proof usually requires something more than a personal opinion or observation. Hopefully that concept also carries over to other avenues.

As already stated, the policy changes have been an evolution. If you do not approve of that it's fine. It is what is it. The principles for the Rent/Trade Board have been in place since it started.

You are also welcome to your opinion that it is commerce. We have an opposing opinion that it is a component of being a part of this online Community. As you have already noted, there are plenty of other sites where there is no requirement to be a part of any community to participate - and most even allow you to pay for that privilege, unlike the DIS. Those who find that desirable have no need to try to force change here since there are so many other places to establish the marketplace they want.

Thanks again for the vote of confidence!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

How about taking comments/suggestions from the community? Any reason the community has no input? Since this forum is for the benefit of the community, that might make the evolutionary changes a bit more palatable.

So, you are stating that your observation alone is proof of something beyond your own opinion? While you are more than welcome to your own opinion, please don't try to state that it "proves" anything unless you are prepared to support that observation with something of substance. In academia proof usually requires something more than a personal opinion or observation. Hopefully that concept also carries over to other avenues.

As already stated, the policy changes have been an evolution. If you do not approve of that it's fine. It is what is it. The principles for the Rent/Trade Board have been in place since it started.

You are also welcome to your opinion that it is commerce. We have an opposing opinion that it is a component of being a part of this online Community. As you have already noted, there are plenty of other sites where there is no requirement to be a part of any community to participate - and most even allow you to pay for that privilege, unlike the DIS. Those who find that desirable have no need to try to force change here since there are so many other places to establish the marketplace they want.

Thanks again for the vote of confidence!

 

[cheezNE1]

Since the Mod review the rental posting before allowing it to be posted, So instead of using a quota, why can't the mods just review the poster's stats and/or postings and rule base on that? Wouldn't it also limit the rental points inventory on the board for true members in need. Just a thought:

 

[kmsimone]

Wouldn't it also limit the rental points inventory on the board for true members in need. Just a thought:

Gotta ask.....What's a "true member"?

 

[Chuck S]

Since the Mod review the rental posting before allowing it to be posted, So instead of using a quota, why can't the mods just review the poster's stats and/or postings and rule base on that? Wouldn't it also limit the rental points inventory on the board for true members in need. Just a thought:

What specific stats would you have us review? The only stats available are length of time on the DIS, and number of posts. We are using both.

Again, it all seems pretty simple...a minimum of an average of two posts per week. The choice is fully in control of the poster to either meet the requirements, or look elsewhere to rent their points.

 

[cheezNE1]

What specific stats would you have us review? The only stats available are length of time on the DIS, and number of posts. We are using both.

Again, it all seems pretty simple...a minimum of an average of two posts per week. The choice is fully in control of the poster to either meet the requirements, or look elsewhere to rent their points.

I'm up for any rules or change to make this a better place. I just hate to see some 'good listeners and not a talker' kind of member that end up renting their points elsewhere that some of us may want. This will definitely affect both the renters and rentees.
Can't you also check the kind of post they make, like the yes, no, 2 word replies.

Gotta ask.....What's a "true member"?

sorry, i meant contributing member...

 

[Chuck S]

I'm up for any rules or change to make this a better place. I just hate to see some 'good listeners and not a talker' kind of member that end up renting their points elsewhere that some of us may want. This will definitely affect both the renters and rentees.
Can't you also check the kind of post they make, like the yes, no, 2 word replies.

Sure, and we do, but you still need a minimum number of posts on which to base anything...I mean, should a person that has been on the DIS for 8 years with one really good post be approved? But someone with 50 two word posts not be approved? You still need a base criteria, a firm minimum. No matter what minimum we set, some people would find it objectionable.

 

[cheezNE1]

Sure, and we do, but you still need a minimum number of posts on which to base anything...I mean, should a person that has been on the DIS for 8 years with one really good post be approved? But someone with 50 two word posts not be approved? You still need a base criteria, a firm minimum. No matter what minimum we set, some people would find it objectionable.

I see your point.

 

[Brian Noble]

So, you are stating that your observation alone is proof of something beyond your own opinion?

You are reading far too much into my use of the phrase "has proven to be". That is, of course, your prerogative, but it mis-states the intent of my post. I observed that DIS hasn't yet settled on a set of rules that implements the principles they wish to follow, and opined that this new revision would not work either. I further opined that this was because the principles DIS seems to be espousing (that rental is about "community") is simply incompatible with the truth of the matter---that rental is "commerce". And, I further stated that, if I were DIS King (which I am not), I would accept that rental is commerce, and either allow it or forbid it on those terms.

That's not a demand, nor even a request, of DIS ownership. Instead, it is mostly a navel-gazing exercise, because I've never actually rented DVC points, and I don't anticipate ever wanting to. Further, as I wrote in my first post on the subject in this thread, I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that DIS may set the rules as it wishes.

In academia proof usually requires something more than a personal opinion or observation. Hopefully that concept also carries over to other avenues.

I was not aware that we were using publication standards of evidence here on a discussion board dedicated to the topic of Disney vacations. Rather, I was under the impression that we were discussing the various pros and cons of the proposed approach---a discussion which necessarily invites the sharing of opinion and observation.

This bit of the discussion is just speculating as to whether or not it will be possible to set the rules in a way that comports with the spirit of the board. And I suspect the answer will "prove" to be no---the rules will change again, in another attempt to define commerce as community. I will be happy to be "proven" wrong about this, but that's not where I'd place my mickeybar wager.

However, I stand by the original statement. The rules have changed several times in the recent past. The fact that they have done so is evidence that the original rules (and each successive revision) did not encode the principles as desired---else, they would not have changed. I suppose it is also possible that the principles themselves have changed, but I would hope that has not been the case, because that means that the spirit of the R/T board is a moving target.

We can debate the semantics of "proof", if you like, though it has been about 20 years since I've studied epistemology, so I'm afraid I'll be a bit rusty. But a double blind clinical experiment with a control group is difficult given that there is only one DIS. That is, unless you are suggesting that two different R/T boards be created with two different sets of rules, to see how each will evolve. That would be the way we'd do it here "in academia".

 

[kmsimone]

We can debate the semantics of "proof", if you like, though it has been about 20 years since I've studied epistemology, so I'm afraid I'll be a bit rusty.

Thought I would save everyone some time.

Epistemology (from Greek ἐπιστήμη – epistēmē, "knowledge, science" + λόγος, "logos") or theory of knowledge is the branch of philosophy concerned with the nature and scope (limitations) of knowledge.[1] It addresses the questions:

What is knowledge?
How is knowledge acquired?
How do we know what we know?

 

[LIFERBABE]

Thought I would save everyone some time.

Epistemology (from Greek ἐπιστήμη – epistēmē, "knowledge, science" + λόγος, "logos") or theory of knowledge is the branch of philosophy concerned with the nature and scope (limitations) of knowledge.[1] It addresses the questions:

What is knowledge?
How is knowledge acquired?
How do we know what we know?

Thanks! Brian had to go all Ann Arbor on us!!

(here I was thinking, what does childbirth have to do with this!)

Go Blue!

No wonder the DIS has so many lurkers, you sure can learn alot!!

 

[rwcmath]

I cannot believe the "discussion" this topic is generating! Sliding scales, kinds of posts that count...Really? Just follow the rules or go elsewhere! It is not that complicated! Sorry, this is just rubbing me the wrong way. Too many people looking to find a loop hole or easy way around the rules, or whining about why the rules shouldn't apply to them.

IF I wanted to rent my points here, I can see what the requirements are and either abide by them or go elsewhere.

rwc

 

[kmsimone]

IF I wanted to rent my points here, I can see what the requirements are and either abide by them or go elsewhere.

rwc

Just sharing opionions.

 

[RobDoc]

You are reading far too much into my use of the phrase "has proven to be".

Sorry to have taken your written words literally.

I was not aware that we were using publication standards of evidence here on a discussion board dedicated to the topic of Disney vacations. Rather, I was under the impression that we were discussing the various pros and cons of the proposed approach---a discussion which necessarily invites the sharing of opinion and observation.

This bit of the discussion is just speculating as to whether or not it will be possible to set the rules in a way that comports with the spirit of the board. And I suspect the answer will "prove" to be no---the rules will change again, in another attempt to define commerce as community. I will be happy to be "proven" wrong about this, but that's not where I'd place my mickeybar wager.

However, I stand by the original statement. The rules have changed several times in the recent past. The fact that they have done so is evidence that the original rules (and each successive revision) did not encode the principles as desired---else, they would not have changed. I suppose it is also possible that the principles themselves have changed, but I would hope that has not been the case, because that means that the spirit of the R/T board is a moving target.

We can debate the semantics of "proof", if you like, though it has been about 20 years since I've studied epistemology, so I'm afraid I'll be a bit rusty. But a double blind clinical experiment with a control group is difficult given that there is only one DIS. That is, unless you are suggesting that two different R/T boards be created with two different sets of rules, to see how each will evolve. That would be the way we'd do it here "in academia".

In my view, the policy changes made in the past few years have been an attempt to clarify the intent of the Rent/Trade Board since it had become apparent that many had lost sight of that very intent. We will have to agree to disagree about whether that represents a moving target or not and the real proof will ultimately result from the ability of the Rent/Trade Board to continue to remain a viable avenue for DVC rentals. My mickeybar bets it will.

No need for any real debate. My comment about academic proof was in regard to your "proven" comment and you have already explained that I had read too much into your use of that phrase. I do apologize again for that.

How about taking comments/suggestions from the community? Any reason the community has no input? Since this forum is for the benefit of the community, that might make the evolutionary changes a bit more palatable.

I thought that was the purpose of threads like this. Actually all of the policy changes made have been in response to complaints and suggestions from the DVC Community thru the many PMs sent to moderators and administrators as well as from posts on the boards. The vast majority of the posts and correspondence has been strongly in favor of the changes made - past and present. Of course, there have been some who have never made any such comment until now, but that's OK too. Now is a good time to make comment.

 

[JWG]

While I admittedly ride the fence on this topic (as someone who is able to rent via the Rent/Trade board), it doesn't negatively impact people wanting to rent too much. At the risk of breaking some posting rule I don't know, if you're not looking for more than $10 a pt. there are other avenues available to rent that probably protect you better then the R/T board. David's Rentals for example, last I knew, paid the renter $10/pt.

So, unless you want $11.00 or more, there are options that may be less risky and require less work.

And frankly, use your points!

 

[Sammie]

To the posters who think they are too late to post because Diane or I have already posted the answer, there are so many threads that you can post. Anytime someone asks "What is SSR like" or "tell me the best place to stay at OKW" anyone who has stayed there can offer up their viewpoint. The restaurant board is a great place to post because people are always looking for dining suggestions.

As Deb has said many times people are wanting opinions. Well there is no reason not to share an opinion simply because others already have.

Certainly a question like where is the nearest Publix to Animal Kingdom Lodge does not need multiple answers. But a question like, where do you like to grocery shop while at WDW will.

Also and mods correct me if this is wrong, it is not 50 posts on the DVC forums it is 50 posts for the entire site.

There are so many forums here and many DVCers never post on them. Get out and post there too.

 

[Chuck S]

As Deb has said many times people are wanting opinions. Well there is no reason not to share an opinion simply because others already have.

Certainly a question like where is the nearest Publix to Animal Kingdom Lodge does not need multiple answers. But a question like, where do you like to grocery shop while at WDW will.

Also and mods correct me if this is wrong, it is not 50 posts on the DVC forums it is 50 posts for the entire site.

There are so many forums here and many DVCers never post on them. Get out and post there too.

That is correct, it is 50 posts anywhere on the DIS, except the Rent/Trade board, and perhaps the "test" board where frequently people seem to post just enough to boost their post count enough to use the PM and email systems.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Thanks Doc for your comments. Well I guess I am having a hard time understanding who the changes benefit. Since most of the complaints have come thru PM's, we really don't have a good idea just what the problems are/ were.

JMO, I don't see how a post minimum is going to shed any light on the trustworthiness of either renter or rentee. It really all boils down to payment and commitment. Payment by the renter and commitment from the rentee that the reservation will stay in tact. I don't feel this is the responsibility of Disboards to create this dual trust worthiness. It's ultimately between the two parties, with DIS acting only as the vehicle.

Ok, thanks for the discussion.