Rant: The DDP is ruining everything!

[LuluLovesDisney]

There have been very few menu changes noted in the signature restaurants.
It's not clear which of the changes are directly a result of the dining plan, which changes are just normal menu changes and which may be a result of the restaurants popularity. Artist Pointe reduced the number of "exotic" menu items before the current dining plan was instituted.

There have been changes made to the one credit restaurants, some may be a result of the current dining plan but the food at LTT was cut back before the current dining plan. I would question how many of the one credit restaurants ever offered "fine dining".

V&A, Bistro, blueZoo, Shula's, new Italian restaurant in Swan and 3 or 4 fine restaurants in DTD. Even those very few posters who claim Disney has ruined the "signature" restaurants still have a nice selection of restaurants to chose from.

I've definitely been doing more signature dining since the DDP came about, but even there, I've seen portion sizes shrink (like Jiko's filet) or items no longer offered (Duck and Pork firecracker, Tanzanian chocolate candies) When you used to get a larger filet and now it's half the size, it's a little saddening when you're still paying the same. (Although, I admit without hesitation Jiko's filet still tastes absolutely fabulously perfect)

I absolutely loved bluezoo but I will be honest that I like using my DDE discount which I can't do at the Swan. Is Mangino's open already? I hadn't heard of that - Palio's just closed in late August when I was there.

I certainly don't think the restaurants were *ruined*. I like food too much for that, but it's fairly well agreed upon that sizes, quality and items have has some changes - and I would like to make Disney aware of them.

Stop fighting! Everybody is right, and Disney is wrong. The DDP is a great marketing tool and its success is filling seats, keeping people and their $$ on-site and thus in Disney's pockets. They COULD have kept the restaurant quality-portions-presentation with the Dining Plan but they didn't. Instead of fixing the problem by charging a little more for the Plan or hiring more servers and line cooks, they have dumbed-down restaurant fare. Instead of tinkering with the Plan so guests AND employees don't feel like they are on a treadmill run amok, they decided to just pocket the profits.

DISNEY has chosen to make more profits by giving EVERYBODY less quality, even those who don't recognize it. Disney should treat their customers better!! We're the good guys, the loyal customers, whether we've been to WDW once or 100 times. Shame on Disney for not serving us all with respect!

That's why I think it is our duty to speak up about the changes *before* any more are made.

Quote:
I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to enjoy free dining or the DDP, but modifications and adjustments need to be made to bring back some of the magic for a rather large segment of WDW guests who like me, would like to enjoy the quality we used to get. If

But while you may be a rather large segment, I'm thinking Guests such as you describe are GREATLY outnumbered by Guests for whom dining is far secondary to the theme parks.

Sure. Hey I like rides between meals, too. (LOL) I just think *everything* in Disney should be Disney quality. It's not a shoddy backwoods carnival in a parking lot. It is Disney. They wrote a book on customer service that is used in many universities. Shouldn't they live up to what they preach in that book>?

Quote:
Rather than have this degrade into a debate over which guests Disney should consider more important, or completely bash or glorify DDP, why not just admit that it was a good idea with flawed implementation that needs to be fixed in order to live up to the Disney ideals.

I don't think Disney thinks it's flawed. It's not as if some Dining Executive was sitting at his/her desk one day suddenly/magically instituted the DDP. I really think a LOT of time, energy, money, and research went into the whole process.

Disney does know of its flaws. I am a former CM and I have a friend still working there who has told me that managers are sending reports to their managers about problems they're working on. The research is still going on. I'm sure a lot has been done, but I don't think they think its perfect. And if they don't, we should tell them how they can improve. That's the Disney way.

Quote:KatieEldr
Maybe we can come up with suggestions and improvements and maybe communicate those to WDW and hopefully see some changes. I would much prefer to stand by Disney and fix this

You mean without complaining or ranting? In an intelligent, reasonable manner? THAT could work. mAYBE Get some food service professionals to toss in some suggestions, poit out what ideas are reasonable and which aren't? I know there are a few on the DIS. Yep - could work.

I'm hoping. Maybe once everyone gets the venting and fighting out of their systems.

Every single guest that walks into Disney, at any time deserves the best experience - whether it is their 100th, or their 1st time. That's why I get upset about this - not that I deserve more because I've gone so much, but because I have so much of myself invested in Disney. My desk at work, my home, my vacation plans, even my future wedding plans are invested in Disney and I expect it to be as wonderful as it always used to be. I want everything there to be as perfect and magical when I one day take my family there, as it was when my parents took me. I never want it to lose quality - whether in rides, or shows, or atmosphere or food or anything else.

And please forgive my attempts to quote multiple people. It is a skill I need to work on.

 

[jodifla]

Shame on you for making a comment like that. It's all the "firstimers" who keep WDW in business; not just you. She was simply stating her opinion. There was no reason for you to make that rude comment. I'm a DVC member with an anual pass and even more trips than you!!!! But I don't have that attitude like you do. Thank goodness too; I'd loose all my friends.

Friends who don't let their friends have their own opinions aren't very good friends.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Friends who don't let their friends have their own opinions aren't very good friends.

There’s nothing wrong with stating an opinion. It’s the snobby, elitist attitude we can all do without.

 

[wendy46001]

PS... I swear the "steak sauce" in the CG filet is the same crap on the BBQ beef at Pecos Bill's which is also passed off as the "Maple BBQ glaze" at LeCellier!

Ok i so said that last month and everyone at my table in CG looked at me like i was crazy...glad i'm not the only one....

 

[jodifla]

Ok i so said that last month and everyone at my table in CG looked at me like i was crazy...glad i'm not the only one....

Be careful...you don't want to come off as "snobby" and elitist!

 

[kaytieeldr]

PS... I swear the "steak sauce" in the CG filet is the same crap on the BBQ beef at Pecos Bill's which is also passed off as the "Maple BBQ glaze" at LeCellier!

Ok i so said that last month and everyone at my table in CG looked at me like i was crazy...glad i'm not the only one....

Not likely (based on the menu descriptions) but upcoming Guests should ask for the recipes for the two Table Service sauces, and compare them... which reminds me - I never got the recipe for the filet reduction at Kona that the manager said they'd e-mail me...

 

[mickaholic4077]

There’s nothing wrong with stating an opinion. It’s the snobby, elitist attitude we can all do without.

Thank you,dj!! Jodifla may not have intended a snobby,elitist attitude,but that's exactly how her post came off sounding like.

 

[wendy46001]

Be careful...you don't want to come off as "snobby" and elitist!

Oh i'll be careful...dont want to offend... ...
I normally love the CG...

plus i try to keep my foodie opinions to a low in restaurants...
I save my high thoughts for specialty dinners during food and wine...
(which i'm happy to say are even better this year then last)...now if these were year round it would solve all our problems....

 

[NMW]

We LOVE the DDP and we love the new kids menu!!

Just a question, have your kids actually tasted the new menu yet? It sounded okay to me too, until we got there 2 weeks ago. DH and I tasted the pita pizza and the broiled chicken strips. They are really bad. My two younger kids did not like them at all and they are not picky eaters. The dip it thing simply would not have been enought food for my son who turns 8 next week. They did not like the sweet potato fries, I tasted them...they were flavorless to me. Not bad, but not good either. The chopped veggie salad was okay, but that comes ONLY with the pita pizza which my kids only ate the chicken off of. The yougurt was okay, but that comes ONLY with those nasty, dry chicken strips which my kids wanted to spit out (I didn't let them ). You can't make any subs on these meals. My son didn't like the brown sugar apples-he loves regular green apples though. The ala carte menu is the same two app choices everywhere-chicken noodle soup and a ranch dressing salad. The entree choices are mac and cheese (everywhere) and either a burger(comes with apples-can't get fries) or spaghetti (hot dog& apples at Brown Derby). Since my kids didn't like the 2 set kid meals they tried, that left them with only the ala carte choices. My kids got very sick of these choices for dinner every night and some lunches after 9 days. They watched their 10 year old brother order off the adult menu and eat much better than them.

Our next trip is Dec 2007 and I plan to purchase the adult plan for my middle child (he'll only be 9) if we do the dining plan because the kids choices are so bad. We are DVC members, so the meal plan is not in any way connected with tickets for us. I just can't imagine him at 9 eating any of that.

I was just curious to see if your kids really liked the taste of the food, because mine didn't at all.

 

[aug16]

The food aside, I just hate the fact that is has ruined the spontaneous nature of eating at Disney. Now, I have to book an ADR as soon as I book my hotel, plan on being at that park the day my ADR is and planning what I do around where I eat. I miss just being able to say, "I'll eat here" and walk up and get a meal. When we were at Le Cellier in May, they were turning people away because it was full, as a guest I find that to be frustrating.

 

[Ms. WDW]

Friends who don't let their friends have their own opinions aren't very good friends.

Oh my friends do allow me to have and voice my opinions. However, if they should not agree, we discuss the views. We don't make the person feel like they're stupid or that they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Lewisc]

I don't think the DDP is priced for sharing. I'd rather Disney just follow the brochure and charge everyone two credits. Lowering portion sizes is one way to make sure two people pay 4 credits (at a signature restaurant). Too many guest may have been stretching their credits by sharing.

Guests who order appetizers, entrées and desserts generally don't want large portions. Maybe the signature restaurants should consider offering cash guests a price fixed menu.

This isn't directed to you but you mentioned not being able to use DDE at blueZoo. Fine dining isn't cheap. Providing a discount to one block of customers means the restaurant has to over charge other customers. That quote kind of summarizes the problem. Many customers who say they want "fine dining" don't really want to pay the cost. The dining plan pays around $26 for a one credit meal and double that for a signature meal. "Foodies" have the option of dining at V&A for a special occasion. Disney has to decide if there is demand for a $75 dinner--no discount (or $75 after discounts). If so they could drop one signature restaurant from the dining plan. My guess is the demand for that price point is limited. Guests who want a large filet can go to Shula's. Disney is gearing their restaurants, even signature, toward guests who don't want to spend that much.

Le Cellier, CRT and CM were a tough ADR to get even before the dining plan.

The new restaurant in the Swan is scheduled to open in 2007.

I've definitely been doing more signature dining since the DDP came about, but even there, I've seen portion sizes shrink (like Jiko's filet) or items no longer offered (Duck and Pork firecracker, Tanzanian chocolate candies) When you used to get a larger filet and now it's half the size, it's a little saddening when you're still paying the same. (Although, I admit without hesitation Jiko's filet still tastes absolutely fabulously perfect)

I absolutely loved bluezoo but I will be honest that I like using my DDE discount which I can't do at the Swan. Is Mangino's open already? I hadn't heard of that - Palio's just closed in late August when I was there.

I certainly don't think the restaurants were *ruined*. I like food too much for that, but it's fairly well agreed upon that sizes, quality and items have has some changes - and I would like to make Disney aware of them.

 

[deltachi8]

Friends who don't let their friends have their own opinions aren't very good friends.

Opinions never bother me, I can agree or (in this case) disagree. However,the way they are presented does matter. When they are done in a snobbish, elitist way, it is bothersome.

Then again, I'm just your average person, so I probably don't know much.

 

[thatduffgirl]

If you aren't interested in fine dining, and you like to get a large amount of food for a small amount of money, I can see how you would like the dining plan, but I am also hoping you can see the other side.

Rather than have this degrade into a debate over which guests Disney should consider more important, or completely bash or glorify DDP, why not just admit that it was a good idea with flawed implementation that needs to be fixed in order to live up to the Disney ideals. Maybe we can come up with suggestions and improvements and maybe communicate those to WDW and hopefully see some changes. I would much prefer to stand by Disney and fix this. The day I, as an AP holder, have to rent a car just to eat elsewhere will be an extremely sad one and I hope never to see it.

Lulu, I completely agree with your sentiments. I believe that if people would just calm down and really listen to the other POV, I think they will find that both sides can have what they want, and with a little extra creativity on Disney's part, it would be simple to do.

Here in the Dallas area, they have what they call "A Taste of Addison". There are some amazing restaurants in this area. Once a year some of the most popular restaurants offer a package where for $25 you can get an appetizer, main dish, and dessert that would normally cost two to three times that. It is a limited menu, true, but still exquisite and you get the wonderful atmosphere and attention to detail that others are experiencing.

I hold out hope that there will be some compromise...

 

[TDC Nala]

I wonder if somewhere Disney is having this debate “stay with the current plan or tweak the old way”
And if they are, what do you think their answer would be?

I think they'd answer:

The restaurants are full, we're filling up rooms in September that would otherwise go empty by offering free dining, let's keep it . We can always cut back on the cost of ingredients.

 

[lillygator]

Here in the Dallas area, they have what they call "A Taste of Addison". There are some amazing restaurants in this area. Once a year some of the most popular restaurants offer a package where for $25 you can get an appetizer, main dish, and dessert that would normally cost two to three times that. It is a limited menu, true, but still exquisite and you get the wonderful atmosphere and attention to detail that others are experiencing.

If only WDW would offer a fixed or limited menu.....

I don't think the DDP is priced for sharing. I'd rather Disney just follow the brochure and charge everyone two credits. Lowering portion sizes is one way to make sure two people pay 4 credits (at a signature restaurant). Too many guest may have been stretching their credits by sharing.

Just look at all the "maximization" threads and the save the child and use as adult credit threads .....this has definitely been happening.

 

[kkevcamsmom]

So if Disney did drop the dining plan, and the quality of the food did not go back up what/who would you blame then?

Being someone on Weigth Watchers I am happy to see the smaller portions, better healthier choices. Yes I am on vacation but that doesn't mean I need to pig out every meal. I have worked hard to take off the 20 lbs I have and I for one do not want to gain weight on vacation.

My kids like the new foods offered, I for one, am happy to see the healthier choices. No, not everyone will but you can't please everyone all the time. Not matter what changes they make or not make, someone will always complain.

Lori

 

[kaytieeldr]

If only WDW would offer a fixed or limited menu.....

The difference being that Taste of Addison thing, if it's anything like an event in Boston in the summer, or something that occurs a couple of times a year in New York, is - it's for ONE WEEK. Not year-round, not even close.

 

[BillSears]

The difference being that Taste of Addison thing, if it's anything like an event in Boston in the summer, or something that occurs a couple of times a year in New York, is - it's for ONE WEEK. Not year-round, not even close.

Yep and they only do fireworks in New York on Independence Day and New Years Eve. Just because New York only does something for a one week period doesn't mean WDW couldn't do it every day.

 

[monaleigh70]

I haven't been to WDW for ages and will be arriving on Wednesday with my daughter and 2 grandkids. We took the DDP (sorry, foodies!!) just because it seemed to make sense to us; getting decent food without spending a fortune but without the mindset of ordering the most expensive thing on the menu just because we could.

When traveling in Europe it seemed to be a common practice in many restaurants to have several levels of prix fixe menus where the customer could order app, main and dessert based on how much they wanted to spend. This solutions sounds like it could be a compromise to those who feel the DDP is dragging down the quality of the food. It allows the restaurant to keep a la carte items on the menu for those who hate the DDP and a set menu for people like myself from other countries to know in advance how much something costs without going through the headache of trying to translate food costs into your own currency. I guess that's why all-inclusive resorts are so popular. And based on my previous dining experiences at WDW (many moons ago) I never even considered WDW to be a destination to experience fine dining but I guess I was wrong!