Rant: The DDP is ruining everything!

[rie'smom]

deleted

 

[allisonswonderland]

I have never done the dining plan because we do not eat that much table service - because we like to be on the go at the parks and if I had to make a Table service ADR for every day I think that would mess me up - usually in a 7 day stay we would go to 4-5 table service restaurants- Also we also split an appetizer and would not eat our own app entree and dessert, I am not a skinny minnie about a sz 10 - but I do not think I could eat all of that food and then hit the parks again like I like to- I think it would save but it would get in the way of my park touring!

 

[CPer'sMom]

At this point I don't care who or what is *to blame* for the changes at my favorite WDW restaurants ~~~ I would just like to be able to enjoy the same quality of menu choices and the same dining 'experience' that we had come to know over the course of many years of Disney vacations.

While I realize that many people don't go to Disney expecting great food and that's truly not important to them, for us (and obviously many others of you) Disney dining had become an enjoyable part of our trips. We looked forward to returning to our favorites and trying out some new ones each time.

I hope that Disney receives enough negative feedback from unhappy guests that they will re-think some of these changes. I know we have the option of going off-property to dine, but we stay at a WDW resort so we don't have to do that and appreciated that we had many fine dining choices all around the World.

For years, the restaurants have catered to APers/locals/super foodies who make them less money than everyone else, and they are trying to widen the reach.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how AP holders or "super foodies" bring any less money to Disney than "everyone else". Locals, yes, since they aren't staying on Disney property. I am willing to bet that in many cases an AP holder staying at a deluxe resort and paying OOP for meals at the *better* restaurants generates more money for Disney than a value resort guest on the DDP. And that *hurts* Disney how?

 

[kaytieeldr]

You may be right but when I'm there at Thansgiving,my rear is going to stay planted. My meals will be enjoyed. If it messes with the plans of someone-oh well. If I'm paying top dollar,then I'll have a top dollar dining experience any way I can get it.

That's fine. You're entitled. But if NewEnglandDisney's assessment is correct, and slow turnover is one of the issues affecting the percieved menu changes (and it sure SOUNDS reasonable to me) then people should stop blaming the DDP Guests - because, while most complaints have centered around the plan, some really HAVE blamed the diners.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how AP holders or "super foodies" bring any less money to Disney than "everyone else". Locals, yes, since they aren't staying on Disney property. I am willing to bet that in many cases an AP holder staying at a deluxe resort and paying OOP for meals at the *better* restaurants generates more money for Disney than a value resort guest on the DDP. And that *hurts* Disney how?

First, "many" and "most" are two entirely different modifiers. While sure, many AP holders may be staying at Deluxe Resorts, most (aka the majority) AP holders are likely to be a combination of Moderate, Value, DVC, and campground visitors - along with locals and day-trippers.

 

[jodifla]

Many of us are DVC owners...we've committed to going to Disney over the long haul, so it's not quite so easy to "take our vacation dollars elsewhere." I could, but I'd prefer to get things changed...hence the rant I started, to get people talking to each other and registering their complaints with Disney.

Like I said, as someone who has gone to WDW within the first year that it opened until now, Disney went from a pretty godawful dining experience to an industry standard bearer for great food. It's disappointing to watch it change so dramatically.

And I for one, have written Disney and talked to guest relations on the phone about the kids menu and the DDP dumbing down the menu.

I will also be vocal about it when I'm actually there, and I suggest that all who feel similarly do likewise.

 

[Lewisc]

What are the "dramatic" changes at the signature restaurants that you attribute to the dining plan?

Many of us are DVC owners...we've committed to going to Disney over the long haul, so it's not quite so easy to "take our vacation dollars elsewhere." I could, but I'd prefer to get things changed...hence the rant I started, to get people talking to each other and registering their complaints with Disney.

Like I said, as someone who has gone to WDW within the first year that it opened until now, Disney went from a pretty godawful dining experience to an industry standard bearer for great food. It's disappointing to watch it change so dramatically.

And I for one, have written Disney and talked to guest relations on the phone about the kids menu and the DDP dumbing down the menu.

I will also be vocal about it when I'm actually there, and I suggest that all who feel similarly do likewise.

 

[SarahKate]

I sure am happy that I don't live where you live!! If a restaurant doesn't have a variety of menu choices it's bye,bye restaurant.
People are going to be obese no matter how much restaurants cut their menus. Do you really think that will cure the epidemic? It's not about how many choices there are in a restaurant or a grocery store-it's about how much food people put into their bodies. If Disney cuts choices and portions they will get something to eat at a kiosk. Obesity is an eating disorder.
The logic is way too simplistic and WDW doesn't need any more apologists.

I do agree with you that reducing entrees is not going to CURE the problem, there's no question about that. However, over the past few decades, entree sizes have gotten HUGE and right along with it, WE as a nation have gotten huge. Don't you see that there is a correlation? Just look at the size of dinner plates. If you look at plates from, say, the 50's or 60's, they are quite small. Look at the ones that you buy today or are at any restaurant and they're quite large. So the natural inclination is to just fill the entire plate w/ food.

It is totally INGRAINED in our minds that unless that plate is full of food, we are getting ripped off.

And having a huge menu doesn't mean that it's going to be a good place to eat. The fact of the matter is that it would be much harder for a restaurant to keep quality high w/ so many different choices. Much higher chance for variation, whereas if a restaurant scales down their menu it allows them the ability to concentrate and fine tune what they have. And these restaurants I'm referring to rotate their menus, it is not as if they have the SAME thing over and over. I would much rather go to a place that is known for having all good entrees than a cracker box restaurant with 100's of choices where the food is not high quality. I'm not necessarily referring to WDW restaurants, but just in general.

Good nutrition begins at home, but it certainly doesn't help when restaurants are pouring out entrees that have enough calories for an entire DAY or maybe even TWO! Yeah, so an obese person might head to a kiosk after eating - that person and any OTHER person. It's WDW. It's not just about the obesity, so please don't target this group. There are plenty of people out there who can totally stuff themselves and not gain weight - are they healthy? Thin doesn't always equate to healthy. It's all about what they are putting into their bodies.

 

[dizfanz]

What are the "dramatic" changes at the signature restaurants that you attribute to the dining plan?

I am not exactly a fan of the DDP and have not been to WDW since Jan '06, but from what I have read on these threads, the more noticeable changes have not been at the Signature restaurants, but at the 1 TS credit places. As long as the Sig. Rest. stay the same quality, personally I, as a self-proclaimed foodie, can deal with the changes. My wife just ate at FF last week and said the experience was excellent. I would bet that most "foodies" eat at the Signature restaurants more often than the others and hopefully won't experience the standardized menus as much. I have not experienced this yet, but I will see in january. The one thing that concerns me at the DDP is that it seems much harder to get into restaurants now. We are DVC and do not plan dinner until we are ready to eat. We have never been turned away from a restaurant in 10 years. I guess we will see during this trip. But I still will not plan a meal 180 days out. That's just crazy talk

 

[kaytieeldr]

I am not exactly a fan of the DDP and have not been to WDW since Jan '06, but from what I have read on these threads, the more noticeable changes have not been at the Signature restaurants, but at the 1 TS credit places.

Ah, but somebody upthread complained specifically about, hold on, let me find it... okay, California Grill:

This time, I would like to be able to sample California Grill and all of its offerings. But the offerings that I was looking forward to are no longer there. Just an example of things to come.

Now, I don't know what offerings this person was anticipating, but exactly ONE, repeat ONE menu item was dropped from September 2006 to October 2006 when the menu was ALTERED to list sushi and the cheese plate on the entree section - and two sushi options were ADDED.

 

[jodifla]

Specifics of what I don't like:
We eat at the Yachstmen two or three times a year. The quality slide in the cut of meat I got there last was considerable.

We got the same salad at Olivia's that we got at the Yacht Club Galley.

The new kids menus are HORRIFIC! My DS won't eat almost anything on that menu.

Actually, you can see the rebeling in other threads over the Kids menu. I can see many people forgoing the DDP, because their kids simply won't eat what's on the tasteless, limited menu, making the DDP no longer a deal for people, because now they have to cash for meals their kids can actually eat.

No lobster ANYWHERE anymore on the menus. THat's definitely DDP!

 

[dizfanz]

Ah, but somebody upthread complained specifically about, hold on, let me find it... okay, California Grill: Now, I don't know what offerings this person was anticipating, but exactly ONE, repeat ONE menu item was dropped from September 2006 to October 2006 when the menu was ALTERED to list sushi and the cheese plate on the entree section - and two sushi options were ADDED.

Kaytieeldr, I must admit I am curious of your point-by-point examination of these posts. Anyhow I agree wtih your assessment that CG changes were just due to a seasonal change in the menu, not a cost-cutting attempt. You did not say anything about my comments on the difficulty of getting into restaurants and the absurdity of 180 day reservations. C'mon, you don't agree with me do ya?

 

[disneygal33]

No lobster ANYWHERE anymore on the menus. That's definitely DDP!

Not even at Signature places? You have to be kidding me. Please say your kidding!!!

 

[jodifla]

Not even at Signature places? You have to be kidding me. Please say your kidding!!!

I haven't found any. Maybe others can prove me wrong (I hope...)

 

[taylorl25]

Narcoossee's still has whole lobster on their menu, and I believe Cap'n'Jacks still has lobster tails.

 

[StevePSU1]

For those that are indicating quality decreases in cuts of meat, I would put forward the following:

Specific grades of meat dont guarantee consistency from one animal to the next. It's very difficult for even the best trained chef to guarantee that every single steak is perfect. One bad steak doesnt mean they are deliberately purchasing "lesser quality" meat. Although OP's indicated the "quality" dropped, they werent too specific as to what that meant.

IF your steak didnt meet your expectations at the restaurant, you should have sent it back.

 

[disneygal33]

Narcoossee's still has whole lobster on their menu, and I believe Cap'n'Jacks still has lobster tails.

Whew!! Our first night we are eating there before our Wishes cruise. I picked it because I wanted the Lobster. Hubby is allergic to shell fish so I don't get it very often. We moved a few years ago and have found the quality at most restaurants in our area pretty bad so we just eat in. I was planning on eating shell fish as much as possible during our trip starting with my Lobster at Narcoossee's

 

[jodifla]

For those that are indicating quality decreases in cuts of meat, I would put forward the following:

Specific grades of meat dont guarantee consistency from one animal to the next. It's very difficult for even the best trained chef to guarantee that every single steak is perfect. One bad steak doesnt mean they are deliberately purchasing "lesser quality" meat. Although OP's indicated the "quality" dropped, they werent too specific as to what that meant.

IF your steak didnt meet your expectations at the restaurant, you should have sent it back.

My steak didn't taste as good as it normally does. Is that clear enough for you?

I noticed it right away, before I thought of any DDP associations. I also noticed there weren't any wild game or other unusual choices that DH normally orders on the menu. I also noticed they no longer prepared the Caesar tableside...it came preplated.

On a good note, my DS's soup on the kids meal was terrific. Wonder if that will disappear now that they are instituting their child-hating menu at so many restaurants?

In addition, they no longer let you do takeout from Olivia's, which is a direct result of the DDP being added there. That is CRIMINAL in my book. We often would get takeout from there when DS was a toddler and infant. I feel sorry for families with really small children at OKW now, because they are really screwed. There's no food court there, only the measly offerings at Goods to GO. On arrival days, we'd always go to get Olivia's takeout since we hadn't had time to grocery shop yet.

 

[jodifla]

Whew!! Our first night we are eating there before our Wishes cruise. I picked it because I wanted the Lobster. Hubby is allergic to shell fish so I don't get it very often. We moved a few years ago and have found the quality at most restaurants in our area pretty bad so we just eat in. I was planning on eating shell fish as much as possible during our trip starting with my Lobster at Narcoossee's

I sure hope that's true! Please let us know after you get back.

 

[rie'smom]

Jodifla noted that many of us have been to WDW since it first opened. We have been able to ride the roller coaster that is Disney dining.Right now,we're at the bottom. Hopefully,with some changes,the dining will begin another ascent.
Many of you refuse to see the changes in food quality.Some say the quantity has us upset. Not me,when we dine at an upscale restaurant,we know that portions are sometimes quite small. The quality of the food and the service are the difference between a dining experience and just a meal. If I want quantity,there are plenty of buffets(which I abhor).
There is pressure on the servers to move the herds in and out of the restaurants and this impinges on my ability to enjoy a meal. I like to savor the food. If,during Thanksgiving,I see one of those people hanging around with that timer to see how long my server is interacting-I will confront them.
So if you see a woman approach one of these gnats,it might be me.
For all of those who think that large portions in restaurants led to obesity in this country,do some research. A couple of things that have are the corn sweeteners and the food additives like MSG. Both of these make people crave more food.Therefore, people will buy more bags of junk and they are never able to satisfy the food monster. Of course,if you'll notice when you grocery shop,it's not just the junk that has these additives-just about everything from canned goods to frozen food to boxed cereal contain them. Because there was a bit of outrage over MSG, it has many names-hydrolized protein and autolyzed yeast among them. When did manufacturers begin adding these additives in huge numbers- the 1980's. When did the obesity epidemic really take off-yep,1980s.Many people blame the carbs in table sugar but that's not the culprit.White cane sugar is hardly found in any food anymore and a couple of teaspoons in coffee won't make you fat. Ok, enough of the food additive and obesity links for today. As you can see,I did do my research.

 

[saschab]

You'd have to ask the person who posted: I was simply presenting a REASONABLE point about why or how someone may not be ABLE to make themselves aware as we are.

You've taken my statement out of context. The rest of the sentence places the responsibility to inform guest on Disney. Just as Disney informs people on other choices they make on their vaction (ie. 1 day ticket vs. hopper)

No, DDP users are no more getting a "discounted" meal than are diners anywhere who use, say, the Entertainment Book coupons, or restaurant.com certificates, or even ANY coupon or GC. None of THOSE people should be forced to choose from a limited menu; why DDP users?

You've actually made my point. without realizing it. Coupons or certificates like you have mentioned sometimes do have exclusions. But the main point is that these give you a 2-for-1 or percentage off. They do not artificially put a ceiling on what the restauant can offer for a appy/entree/dessert meal.

DDP is a fixed price meal, not a percentage off.
So all snacks have to fall in a snack price margin give or take a buck or two. All CS meals have to fall in a margin give or take $5, and all TS meals will have to fall in a margin give or take $10.

Alot of folks were fortunate enough in the beginning, to save more when things were still being ironed out. But menu changes are showing that this is the way things will be from now on. A savings? Yes, but with the new 10/16 menus, a little less saving than before.

So, DDP users are already being given a limited menu. It's just that there are no offers allowed above that limit for anyone, no matter how they pay. The menu itself is limited by the DDP cost margin.

I do agree with many of the points being made by those who disagree with me regarding changes in entree sizes, standardization, and all those things folks point out are caused by different things besides DDP. Yep, there are other influences besides DDP.

But what is so hard to understand about fixed priced menus such as DDP? A restaurant that particpates in fixed price, has no choice but to limit it's offerings to something that doesn't break the bank to meet that price.

Whereas people with more experience in both life and business would attribute the increase to the COST of both food and operations increasing, JUST AS IN THE REAL WORLD.

Yes, and people with experience in both would also understand how a price point ceiling would impact both the quality, quantity, and choice available. Those paying OOP are artificially restrained by the DDP.

In the real world, the increase of cost of the food/operations would be added to the cost of the meal, or the meal would be downsized the meet the added costs. Which one will be more advantageous to the restaurant depends on what their market will bear.

With DDP, unless they increase the price, the only answer is to downsize the meal by quantity, quality or cost of food item to meet the margin. Therefore effecting choices for those not restrained by purchasing the DDP. Those paying OOP or using DDE.

Disney can do this, but I don't have to like it if I'm paying OOP. If they choose to ignore those folks, so be it. But it doesn't negate the facts I've presented. DDP is not the only impact on the changes, but it is silly to say it has no impact.

If that is fine with you, then I'm happy for you. But that is no reason to put down as "unreasonable" and "inexperienced in both like and business" those who dislike these facts.