*Rant* My daughter's teacher is going to fail her before school even starts...

[The Mystery Machine]

Wow! Hearing everyone talk about all these commitments makes me nervous. My two oldest are in band- on the middle school level. (They only have about 3 concerts per year, all practice is at school, and no marching band) It looks like we have a lot to think about and make sure they are truly committed before continuing this into high school......

Yep.

The football games are really "practices" for the competitions actually.

That may vary of course depending on your band. Since my dd was in a popular Texas marching band they competed in competitions.

 

[daughtersrus]

At our school, you have to tryout for all bands (marching, symphonic, jazz, performance...). Band practice is from 6:30-11:30am with a break for lunch. It then goes from 1:00-4:30 with a break for dinner and starts up again from 6:00-8:30pm. The kids are not allowed to stay on the school grounds during the breaks because there is no supervision. That means parents of the younger students are driving back and forth several times a day.

The only sport that our band marches for is football. The march in some parades in the spring and fall but winter is pretty much march-free. It seems a bit harsh that a student would fail for missing two games.

As for grades, there have been many non-band parents upset around here. For whatever reason, they give band a weighted grade. So, a non-band student that takes all honors classes besides the electives nd gets A's in all of them, is never going to be ranked in the top 10-20 of the school because the grades for those is band is weighted. To me, that just doesn't seem right.

 

[mhsjax]

I realize full well what comp cheerleading is all about-the comp squad at our high school recently placed top 10 in nationals. I know full well they work hard but I was just making a point about you throwing out stereotypes of band members and how your kids wouldn't be "caught dead" in band. You did say that it wasn't a big deal if someone missed band because they can just send someone else in which shows you don't really know what this is all about.

No I didn't say that, I said in sports they could but maybe not band. Which should have said not band, I NEVER said that band could just send someone else in. Again ,you need to read what I said EXACTLY.

As far as stereotypes, I have same ones about cheerleaders, not my favorite but it is what she loves and so far so good, if she ever developes that attitude or starts truly acting like a cheerleader, it is over and she knows that. I know all the stereotypes and I say them all, and sometimes I tend to agree with them all, about all sports and activites. That is life, people are judged by what they do, and I am ok with that. And as far as my kids wouldn't be caught dead in band, so what, my hubby was in the band he doesn't take offense to it, why do you. It isn't something they are interested in. They love music but have no desire to be in a marching band. They like piano and guitar and things like that. Sorry but it is the truth, they don't like marching bands they could care less. Also I see you love golf, Guess what I would rather have a root canal, but hubby loves it and he is ok with me hating it. Different strokes, so really no need to get so offended.

I even joke, we have 3 kids. We have one cheerleader biotch, one sports jock and one smart nerd. I don't believe that for one second but we do have the cheerleader and the jock and the really smart one, but they all excel in most areas but they do tend to gravitate more in one area.

 

[StacyMarie]

Who knew this would be such a hot topic? Thanks all for making my morning a little more interesting!

 

[golfgal]

Are you 100 % sure these are games and not scrimmages or even JV games? I'm not a stalker...but I see your location is Muskegon. I'm just saying this because my cousin's kids go to school in Muskegon and we were talking about going to watch them play this year and she mentioned that we would have to come in Sept because there were no football games until after Labor Day. Maybe a different high school? I'm assuming there is more than one high school but I don't know. I'm from Iowa so all I know is what she said about her son's team.

She did mention something about there being a scrimmage prior to Labor Day, if we wanted to come up over Labor Day but it was an "away" scrimmage. I honestly have no idea I'm just wondering if he's trying to use these scrimmages as "dress rehearsals" and wants to try to force everyone to be there. If so, I'd be raising hell. Although, if there was a "contract" or anything that they had to sign stating they knew the requirements I'm not sure what your options are. I wish you the best.

Our high school has real games before school starts. When you live in the north and the snow flies in November, you start in August or you don't have a fall sports season.

Wow! Hearing everyone talk about all these commitments makes me nervous. My two oldest are in band- on the middle school level. (They only have about 3 concerts per year, all practice is at school, and no marching band) It looks like we have a lot to think about and make sure they are truly committed before continuing this into high school......

It really isn't all that bad if you plan ahead. We have been involved with marching band for 5 years now, we just plan vacations before it starts. Also, the kids very much look forward to band because ALL of their friends are in band. The few friends they do have feel very left out during band season. I know my kids would choose not to go on vacation vs missing band practice-even in 105 degree, 75 degree dewpoint days like yesterday when your glasses fog up when you go outside. Our band schedule is available online by the end of January, often sooner. The schedule is roughly the same year to year but you have plenty of forewarning for the summer. The practice schedule RARELY changes so you can count on it being what it lists.

 

[Tess]

FYI, she is NOT missing 10 days of practice, she is only missing 2 home football games. There is no practice after they get back from the 5-day overnight camp.

In the State of MI, legislation was passed so that school is required to begin AFTER Labor Day because too many students were missing school to go on vacation over Labor Day. This falls into the EXACT reason that bill was passed, so students COULD NOT BE PENALIZED for taking a family vacation. I know for a FACT that my daughter is not the only student missing at least one of these games. I know for a fact that in the past, students were offered to write a 3-page report to make up for a missed performance so their grade would not suffer. I hold a position on the band board and I know that this band director has made other arrangements for other students. He is not extending any other option to my daughter as he has made in the past to other students.

A former band parent and Booster officer who is also in MI here. Our band director told me that "legally" she could not enforce her rules of "failing" students for missing performances. She was able to offer alternative assignments to the students in lieu of the performance.

Does your band have a parent/student contract? If so, check the rules--if not, you need to do as you have indicated (and maybe later reported, I haven't gotten through the whole thread) contact the principal and see where he/she stands on this issue. I know our band director indicated she would not be able to fail a student and if she tried, the principal would have her head.

I get all of the commitment points made by others, but the OP is correct--in MI the law was passed to encourage tourism and summer school or not, school cannot officially begin until after Labor Day. Something we don't personally care for in this household, but it is the law.

 

[golfgal]

At my dd's school playing the oboe did not get you out of band either. They put you with a needed instrument or percussion.

We have an oboe solo in our show this year. I guess it is pretty cool, I haven't heard it yet. DD's best friend plays oboe but plays sax for marching band. Percussion would not be an option but colorguard would.

I am soooo glad that around here, Marching Band is like sports, it's an extracurricular activity - NO GRADE. Now, during the school day - freshman band, mid-band, and concert band - those are your graded classes and you have to be in one of them to march, you know that you will have X number of concerts through out the school year and attendance is manditory or get an F for the performance.

But, even though Marching band isn't a graded class, it is an activity that requires a highly dedicated commitment by both the student and the family. Plain and simple - from the 1st of Aug until the end of Oct - your only plans are to breath, eat and live band. Thank god for the DVR - we love college football. Guess who for the next 4 years will be taping and watching those games late Saturadays and Sunday mornings.

While it is HIGHLY frowned upon to miss any practices or games, the only penelty the kids can incure is not being allowed to march the following year. If they are habitiual tardies or no-shows, the directors will not allow the kids to join the following year. They do allow absences for reasons, they even have an Absence request form. It states right by the reason of absence line, Think - should you really be missing rehearsal for this. Makes the kids think about their decision long and hard before making them. Vacations during the the marching season, is not acceptable. They are learning their drill and every kid has to be there for it to work.

Now they do give the kids breaks in the summer. 1st session of band is for 2 weeks and is 2 weeks after school gets out. Then 3 weeks off before 2nd session starts. 2nd session started Aug 2nd and this is when the serious time commitment starts. We have a commitment to the band Monday - Friday every week until Oct 30th when State Finals are. Every Sat is commited to band starting Sept 11th. Aug 27th is the 1st of 5 Friday nights commited to band, as they are home football game nights.

The kids that are in marching band in our school have "marching band" as their fall trimester class. The band kids that are not in marching band are in concert bands.

At our school, you have to tryout for all bands (marching, symphonic, jazz, performance...). Band practice is from 6:30-11:30am with a break for lunch. It then goes from 1:00-4:30 with a break for dinner and starts up again from 6:00-8:30pm. The kids are not allowed to stay on the school grounds during the breaks because there is no supervision. That means parents of the younger students are driving back and forth several times a day.

The only sport that our band marches for is football. The march in some parades in the spring and fall but winter is pretty much march-free. It seems a bit harsh that a student would fail for missing two games.

As for grades, there have been many non-band parents upset around here. For whatever reason, they give band a weighted grade. So, a non-band student that takes all honors classes besides the electives nd gets A's in all of them, is never going to be ranked in the top 10-20 of the school because the grades for those is band is weighted. To me, that just doesn't seem right.

Our band grades are just like any other grade. They don't "weight" grades in our school but they have an honor grade system so you have 2 class ranks, an overall rank and an honors rank. If you don't take honors/AP/CIS you can't get an honors rank, which is the one they send out to colleges nor can you be in the top 20% of the class or so. Band has a regular and an honors rank as well, as do the other music offerings in the school. We perform at home football games but they are more of a practice for our competitions.

 

[LukenDC]

In my experience from what I have seen with friends that are in band, these directors have a "god" complex. They need to be dealt with.

Unfortunately this is true at many schools. Band directors and athletic coaches are often too big for their britches and need to be knocked down a peg or two. The fights between the band director and teachers at my high school were legendary. The band director expected students to miss other classes if he felt that they needed more music practice. Because the band was so successful, the administration was afraid to stand up to him.

The football coach was just as bad, but he self-destructed. He and his wife engaged in sex with the players in what became a scandal that attracted international attention.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I just looked up our local HS schedule & rules. It is pretty hefty.

It states that....if you have an unexcused absence, your letter grade will drop 2 letter grades from the quarter and you will be eliminated from receiving an extra-curricular letter.

 

[Claudia1]

Was there a posting or notice of the required performances? If so, missing would be a big no-no without prior approval. You mentioned all of the August activities but not this as mandatory.

 

[scrapbookworm]

I'm confused about something. You said that the entire month of August is spent in band camp. Then after that you have 2 days off, then a ten day vacation, and then 2 days before school starts. When exactly does school start? When are those 2 football games?

 

[StacyMarie]

I'm confused about something. You said that the entire month of August is spent in band camp. Then after that you have 2 days off, then a ten day vacation, and then 2 days before school starts. When exactly does school start? When are those 2 football games?

I misspoke, it is not the ENTIRE month for band camp but almost the entire month. The students have pre-band camp at the high school starting August 2 through August 18th everyday M-F from noon to 5 p.m. Then they leave for 5-day overnight band camp that is required and the students have to pay 350.00 to attend and that is from August 19th through August 24th. We leave for vacation August 27th through September 5th. From August 25th on, there is no more practices, just 2 football games on August 27th and September 3rd, which will happen while we are gone but before school starts. School officially starts on September 7th.

 

[Cindy B]

At my dd's school playing the oboe did not get you out of band either. They put you with a needed instrument or percussion.

See here marching band is NOT required. You can choose show band or marching band, and since the oboe is not a marching instrument.. ever try to do it? -- you can choke on a reed and if you have a good instrument (non plastic custom) it can crack or break in the weather.

Show band is a better option for us. We have too many percussionists and lots of marching band people.. he's the only oboe in the school. The oboe and the bassoon player stay in show band.

I'm happy we have the option.. I'd rather do show band any time over marching.. I know my son would as well.

That is nice that they have an oboe solo in marching but they do need to be sure that the instrument is not subject to humidity or it will crack.. (unless it is a plastic one.. then NVM)

 

[The Mystery Machine]

See here marching band is NOT required. You can choose show band or marching band, and since the oboe is not a marching instrument.. ever try to do it? -- you can choke on a reed and if you have a good instrument (non plastic custom) it can crack or break in the weather.

Show band is a better option for us. We have too many percussionists and lots of marching band people.. he's the only oboe in the school. The oboe and the bassoon player stay in show band.

I'm happy we have the option.. I'd rather do show band any time over marching.. I know my son would as well.

That is nice that they have an oboe solo in marching but they do need to be sure that the instrument is not subject to humidity or it will crack.. (unless it is a plastic one.. then NVM)

Every school is different. Which is why I tell parents on the moving threads, to LOOK at the HS programs even if their kids are in elementary school at the time.

That is nice you have that choice.

 

[fraggle551]

In my experience, band directors are PSYCHO. My freshman year I went through pre-clinic, band camp, then came down with mono. Really really bad mono. I was out of school from Labor Day until Halloween. When I came back to band I coughed while lined up for attention. The band director started screaming at me for coughing and breaking attention. That was the day I walked off the field, into the guidance office, and removed band from my schedule.

They are not God and cannot scream at a child recovering from a serious illness for coughing! Same as failing a student for missing 2 games BEFORE school even starts is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[MichelleVW]

My dd did Marching Band and we made sure to be there when she was expected to be there. I would never ever plan a trip where my HS student would miss anything related to school.

I don't understand why students sign up for things and then get mad when they are penalized for skipping out on it. Missing a football game is a huge no-no.

You made a mistake not making sure that it is an OK from the band director beforehand.

You have no leg to stand on, really. Can she drop band and take something else? I mean school has not started yet. I would look into that as an option.

When you sign up for band, you know the rules. Choosing to ignore them is not going to get you out of the bad grade.

Marching Band starts a month before school, always. It is part of the commitment.

You better include fall sports in that too. They also start before school. I am sure the football team has been practicing all summer. I see PP stated this the same time I did.

If you make the commitment to be in band, football, volleyball, whatever it may be then you need to be there when expected. It's not just band, it's the fall sports too. Practices start well before school starts and you are expected to be there. These schedules and expectations shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. At least they aren't in my area. Families should know what they are committing to and then be willing to follow through. If it doesn't fit into your summer schedule, that's fine. But then don't participate.

Totally agree with all the above...I don't really have that much to add other than, she signed up and made a commitment. Doesn't matter if it's before school officially starts or not, she needs to be there or face the consequences.

The legislation was passed so the tourist industry could have another long weekend of business not so kids don't miss school-don't fool yourself thinking otherwise. We have the same law here. If you are on the band board then you knew full well that those games were required and because you are on the band board my guess is that the director isn't offering your DD the same consideration because you should have KNOWN better. Also, "in the past" doesn't matter, maybe he changed the policy. The point is now is now.

Exactly! It's not so families can have time together it's so the tourism industry makes more money!!

 

[mhsjax]

Unfortunately this is true at many schools. Band directors and athletic coaches are often too big for their britches and need to be knocked down a peg or two. The fights between the band director at teachers at my high school were legendary. The band director expected students to miss other classes if he felt that they needed more music practice. Because the band was so successful, the administration was afraid to stand up to him.

The football coach was just as bad, but he self-destructed. He and his wife engaged in sex with the players in what became a scandal that attracted international attention.

It us terrible the way some band directors and coaches act. They seem to forget that it is about the kids and not themselves personally. One of our schools seemed to have a problem getting rid of a bad director, I can't remember the reason but it was a problem of not being about to stand up to him or being related to someone or somthing like that, I had a friend whose daughter was in and he pretty much said the same thing, she had to give up something else to be in his band and it wasn't two conflicting things he just wanted to control what everyone did.

 

[golfgal]

I misspoke, it is not the ENTIRE month for band camp but almost the entire month. The students have pre-band camp at the high school starting August 2 through August 18th everyday M-F from noon to 5 p.m. Then they leave for 5-day overnight band camp that is required and the students have to pay 350.00 to attend and that is from August 19th through August 24th. We leave for vacation August 27th through September 5th. From August 25th on, there is no more practices, just 2 football games on August 27th and September 3rd, which will happen while we are gone but before school starts. School officially starts on September 7th.

So knowing the schedule you couldn't have left one day later and came home 2 days earlier to accommodate the band schedule?

See here marching band is NOT required. You can choose show band or marching band, and since the oboe is not a marching instrument.. ever try to do it? -- you can choke on a reed and if you have a good instrument (non plastic custom) it can crack or break in the weather.

Show band is a better option for us. We have too many percussionists and lots of marching band people.. he's the only oboe in the school. The oboe and the bassoon player stay in show band.

I'm happy we have the option.. I'd rather do show band any time over marching.. I know my son would as well.

That is nice that they have an oboe solo in marching but they do need to be sure that the instrument is not subject to humidity or it will crack.. (unless it is a plastic one.. then NVM)

The oboe isn't marching (one other band had a bassoon solo in a show that was very nice-the soloist was one of the drum majors, she played her solo standing still alone on the field then put the bassoon away and moved on to conducting the band). The oboe player is playing from the sidelines. Our band directors are fully aware of what weather can do to instruments, that is not a concern at all. This oboe player usually plays clarinet in the band.

 

[golfgal]

Unfortunately this is true at many schools. Band directors and athletic coaches are often too big for their britches and need to be knocked down a peg or two. The fights between the band director at teachers at my high school were legendary. The band director expected students to miss other classes if he felt that they needed more music practice. Because the band was so successful, the administration was afraid to stand up to him.

The football coach was just as bad, but he self-destructed. He and his wife engaged in sex with the players in what became a scandal that attracted international attention.

Not so at our school. Yes, they expect a LOT out of the kids and they don't put up with any crap but then again the kids know the expectations and don't goof off either. The band directors are very understanding for EMERGENCIES but would NOT be happy with a 2 week vacation and missing required performances and WOULD kick the kids out of band-or not even let them start to begin with because they can't have kids in the band that aren't willing to work or be committed. It just doesn't work.

 

[scrapbookworm]

It's a shame that they have 2 games before school starts. I don't think that is right, but it is what it is and that isn't up to us to decide. It wasn't the band director who scheduled those football games. So, aside from that, you have to make do with what you have.

No flames from me, but you definitely have a big decision to make. And this could be big, b/c it could affect your DD's grades and her future participation in band. They have planned a show that includes your DD. It isn't fair for her to be absent for a vacation. Every band member is important. If you were given notice in advance that they have 2 games before school starts, then unfortunately that is just a mistake on your part to plan the vacation during that time. We're human. We make mistakes.

Good luck!