Questions about "Hyrbid" point purchases.

[citivas]

I am researching a possible DVC purchase and have a few questions about how the “hybrid” model of mostly buying resale with enough direct to get the privileges works. As well as some questions about how it works with home resort points versus other resort points. Trying to understand if it is worth it to pay a premium for add-on “resort you want to stay at” versus any resort with a low entry price and MF ratio.


Let’s assume for the math my goal is to end up with 250 points. I am contemplating buy less than 250 on resale then adding on through Disney just enough to get me close to 250 (knowing the resale market may lead me to buy something other than my exact goal points).


1) If I was interested in BLT as my home resort, can you buy as little as 25 from Disney as add-on or is there a higher minimum and if so what is it?


2) Are add-on points subject to the same wait-list as new buyers or are they always available? If a wait-list any idea how long for BLT add-ons?


3) Does Disney treat people with points through resale the same as original direct buyers when selling add-on points? Same price, same terms, etc.?


4) How does it work when making a reservation if I have some points from another resort but most from the home resort? For example, let’s say I had 225 from BLT but 25 from Saratoga Springs and I need 250 to make a 1 week reservation (just made up examples). Do they need to see you have enough points for the whole reservation from your home resort to let you use the 11-month window? Or would they let you book 11-montsh out anyway because some or in this case most of your points are with the home resort?


5) Assuming the answer to #4 is you need to have enough points for the whole reservation in the home resort, does it work if you have enough points home resort points for 6 days so you book that 11 months out then add on day 7 at 7 months? I ask because I have read about people who game the system to get good rooms at non-home resorts by “walking” their reservation with a constantly moving 7-month out and keep changing the start and end date to hold it and that this works because for whatever reason Disney lets people do this versus prioritizing the waitlist. I was wondering if by similar logic they let people book shorter stays with legitimate home resort points then extend the stay once they have enough non-home points inside the 7 month window.


Thanks.

 

[Ben E N]

1. At BLT, as well as most other resorts, the minimum is 25

2. Same waitlist, as far as I know

3. Yes. You can only use the direct sale points for things like cruises, but that is a poor use anyway.

4. Only the ones at your home resort would work at 11 months. The SSR points in your example would only be usable elsewhere at 7 months.

5. I do not think walking in that case would work. You could only reserve say 6 nights out of 7, and right before you got to the 7 month mark, someone could grab that extra night. Not really worth the hassle just to save a couple of dollars upfront.

 

[CarolMN]

.....(snip)......

4) How does it work when making a reservation if I have some points from another resort but most from the home resort? For example, let’s say I had 225 from BLT but 25 from Saratoga Springs and I need 250 to make a 1 week reservation (just made up examples). Do they need to see you have enough points for the whole reservation from your home resort to let you use the 11-month window? Or would they let you book 11-montsh out anyway because some or in this case most of your points are with the home resort?


5) Assuming the answer to #4 is you need to have enough points for the whole reservation in the home resort, does it work if you have enough points home resort points for 6 days so you book that 11 months out then add on day 7 at 7 months? I ask because I have read about people who game the system to get good rooms at non-home resorts by “walking” their reservation with a constantly moving 7-month out and keep changing the start and end date to hold it and that this works because for whatever reason Disney lets people do this versus prioritizing the waitlist. I was wondering if by similar logic they let people book shorter stays with legitimate home resort points then extend the stay once they have enough non-home points inside the 7 month window.


Thanks.

You can only use home resort points to book your home resort before 7 months.

To use your example, you could not book the 7th night at BLT with SSR points until the 7 month window opens for the 7th night. Doesn't mater that you already booked the previous 6 nights. (Walking does not apply for your example).

 

[citivas]

You can only use home resort points to book your home resort before 7 months.

To use your example, you could not book the 7th night at BLT with SSR points until the 7 month window opens for the 7th night. Doesn't mater that you already booked the previous 6 nights. (Walking does not apply for your example).

Thanks. Thinking this out more, let's say I have points banked and plan to fulfill the reservation using banked and current year points. If my 25 Disney direct points were at a different resort, couldn't I "borrow" 25 next year points from the home resort to make the reservation and hold it 11 months out, then swap them out for the 25 other resort points once I hit 7 months?

 

[Ben E N]

Thanks. Thinking this out more, let's say I have points banked and plan to fulfill the reservation using banked and current year points. If my 25 Disney direct points were at a different resort, couldn't I "borrow" 25 next year points from the home resort to make the reservation and hold it 11 months out, then swap them out for the 25 other resort points once I hit 7 months?

No. The reservation would be cancelled and would then have to be remade. Anybody on a waitlist for that night would take priority over your new reservation.

 

[citivas]

No. The reservation would be cancelled and would then have to be remade. Anybody on a waitlist for that night would take priority over your new reservation.

Okay, thanks.

I guess I don't understand walking then. They let you book a reservation 7 months out and keep calling every day and moving the start and end date without canceling the reservation and giving people on the waitlist a chance, but you can't swap what points are used for one night on an existing reservation without canceling and getting behind the waitlist? That seems like an odd loophole -- if they are going to cancel one and go to the waitlist (a reasonable step), why not do it with both? What's the internal logic?

 

[Ben E N]

Okay, thanks.

I guess I don't understand walking then. They let you book a reservation 7 months out and keep calling every day and moving the start and end date without canceling the reservation and giving people on the waitlist a chance, but you can't swap what points are used for one night on an existing reservation without canceling and getting behind the waitlist? That seems like an odd loophole -- if they are going to cancel one and go to the waitlist (a reasonable step), why not do it with both? What's the internal logic?

Walking is used for 11 month reservations, and not too frequently at that. It does not work with 7 months because there are thousands of people who have home resort priority over you and can just jump ahead of your walk.

 

[Dean]

I am researching a possible DVC purchase and have a few questions about how the “hybrid” model of mostly buying resale with enough direct to get the privileges works. As well as some questions about how it works with home resort points versus other resort points. Trying to understand if it is worth it to pay a premium for add-on “resort you want to stay at” versus any resort with a low entry price and MF ratio.


Let’s assume for the math my goal is to end up with 250 points. I am contemplating buy less than 250 on resale then adding on through Disney just enough to get me close to 250 (knowing the resale market may lead me to buy something other than my exact goal points).


1) If I was interested in BLT as my home resort, can you buy as little as 25 from Disney as add-on or is there a higher minimum and if so what is it?


2) Are add-on points subject to the same wait-list as new buyers or are they always available? If a wait-list any idea how long for BLT add-ons?


3) Does Disney treat people with points through resale the same as original direct buyers when selling add-on points? Same price, same terms, etc.?


4) How does it work when making a reservation if I have some points from another resort but most from the home resort? For example, let’s say I had 225 from BLT but 25 from Saratoga Springs and I need 250 to make a 1 week reservation (just made up examples). Do they need to see you have enough points for the whole reservation from your home resort to let you use the 11-month window? Or would they let you book 11-montsh out anyway because some or in this case most of your points are with the home resort?


5) Assuming the answer to #4 is you need to have enough points for the whole reservation in the home resort, does it work if you have enough points home resort points for 6 days so you book that 11 months out then add on day 7 at 7 months? I ask because I have read about people who game the system to get good rooms at non-home resorts by “walking” their reservation with a constantly moving 7-month out and keep changing the start and end date to hold it and that this works because for whatever reason Disney lets people do this versus prioritizing the waitlist. I was wondering if by similar logic they let people book shorter stays with legitimate home resort points then extend the stay once they have enough non-home points inside the 7 month window.


Thanks.

Generally you want to buy resale and then a 25 pt retail to get perks, as you ask assuming you are buying sufficient volume, say 150 or more. Planning the entire process up front will put you in the best position. There's really no gaming the system if one is playing by the rules, either it's allowed or it isn't. I'm not a big fan of walking a reservation but that's on the management if they allow it. I'd calculate how many points you think you need then plan maybe a 10% cushion of which the 25 point add on could be the cushion in your example. Usually buying the same home resort is best even if one has to wait but there can be exceptions, mostly for high end options difficult to find resale otherwise like VGC or VGF.

 

[crisi]

I'd also note to Dean's point that things change. They currently allow walking, but there are policies they could put in place that would kill that trick. They currently give perks with 25 points direct, but tomorrow they could say you only get the AP perk (the one people are buying direct for) if you own at least 150 points direct. They could (and have talked about) tiering perks to number of points owned.

What won't change is the ability to use non home resort points before the seven month window - that would create contract issues. But perks and the majority of processes aren't really covered under the contract.

You are buying a timeshare - probably intending to own for a decade or longer. Don't buy it hinging on something that they could pull next month.

 

[crisi]

Walking is used for 11 month reservations, and not too frequently at that. It does not work with 7 months because there are thousands of people who have home resort priority over you and can just jump ahead of your walk.

It can work. Its just almost guaranteed to work at eleven months (unless Disney pulls rooms for planned maintenance before eleven months in the middle of your walk) - and usually not necessary. At seven months it is much less likely to work, because one day missing will interrupt the walk - and owners can grab the room at any time.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I'd also note to Dean's point that things change. They currently allow walking, but there are policies they could put in place that would kill that trick. They currently give perks with 25 points direct, but tomorrow they could say you only get the AP perk (the one people are buying direct for) if you own at least 150 points direct. They could (and have talked about) tiering perks to number of points owned.

What won't change is the ability to use non home resort points before the seven month window - that would create contract issues. But perks and the majority of processes aren't really covered under the contract.

You are buying a timeshare - probably intending to own for a decade or longer. Don't buy it hinging on something that they could pull next month.

I don’t totally agree on what they can and cannot do. If they implement your suggestion of 150 points direct they will grandfather all current owners which are eligible.

OTOH I don’t think they would go that route if so they would have done it last April.

Imho they will just raise the minimum amount of points for first time direct buyers to 50/100. That way everyone who hasn’t bought direct will be impacted.

 

[Ben E N]

It can work. Its just almost guaranteed to work at eleven months (unless Disney pulls rooms for planned maintenance before eleven months in the middle of your walk) - and usually not necessary. At seven months it is much less likely to work, because one day missing will interrupt the walk - and owners can grab the room at any time.

Walking from 11 months to add 7 months points is not something that can be done. Say you want to reserve late October. You start walking in early December up to late December and are set for the 7 days you want. If you wanted to then add on the 7 month points, you would have to wait for March to come along, and in the meantime other people can take all the nights they want. Walking in that case, what the OP was mentioning, would get you nothing.

 

[crisi]

I don’t totally agree on what they can and cannot do. If they implement your suggestion of 150 points direct they will grandfather all current owners which are eligible.

OTOH I don’t think they would go that route if so they would have done it last April.

Imho they will just raise the minimum amount of points for first time direct buyers to 50/100. That way everyone who hasn’t bought direct will be impacted.

They do not have to grandfather in owners. They always have, but they do not have to. There is almost nothing about perks in the contract (what is in there has to do with they can limit them for non owners staying on points), so they CAN do whatever they want to do.

 

[crisi]

Walking from 11 months to add 7 months points is not something that can be done. Say you want to reserve late October. You start walking in early December up to late December and are set for the 7 days you want. If you wanted to then add on the 7 month points, you would have to wait for March to come along, and in the meantime other people can take all the nights they want. Walking in that case, what the OP was mentioning, would get you nothing.

I'm not saying walking from eleven months. But if I wanted a room that was open at seven months three weeks at BLT, and that room was continueously open from the day I call and reserve it until the end of my reservation and I thought the chances were good it wouldn't be there at seven months, I could walk. It has a much lower chance of working, because an owner could grab it, but since many owners would have reserved by then, the majority of my competition would be other seven month owners.

The problem is if even one day is missing - or goes missing - I'm done.

 

[Cyberc1978]

They do not have to grandfather in owners. They always have, but they do not have to. There is almost nothing about perks in the contract (what is in there has to do with they can limit them for non owners staying on points), so they CAN do whatever they want to do.

I haven’t read the specifics so I can’t say what they can and cannot do. One thing is if the benefits goes away for everyone another thing is if a lot of owners looses they benefits if they haven’t bought enough points direct. In my book that’s never gonna happen.

 

[crisi]

I haven’t read the specifics so I can’t say what they can and cannot do. One thing is if the benefits goes away for everyone another thing is if a lot of owners looses they benefits if they haven’t bought enough points direct. In my book that’s never gonna happen.

It may, it may not. It CAN. And I have read the contracts - and I've read contracts for a living. And the biggest dissatisfaction I have seen on these boards is when Disney can do something that everyone says won't happen, and they do it. Don't make a decision off what you might get in the future, make your decisions off what you are CONTRACTED to get.

And here is something that it is very important for DVC owners to understand about business decision making and DVC. DVC has your money - they have it from when the contract was sold (the original sale). From that point on they get dues. If you are unhappy, you'll sell your contract and they'll get dues from someone else - someone who is happy. The sale of your contract, the profit and loss, all of that - its your risk, not theirs. They will only have an issue if they make enough people unhappy that the resale market would flood and impact the cash market There is little risk that tiering benefits will do that.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

If they were to implement a tiered system and not grandfather people in, I wonder if they would market it as a loyalty program to direct buyers or members holding a certain number of points. So, like a "bonus" to those members as opposed to the removal of benefits from other members. Of course, then as time passes and certain benefits go away for all members, new ones appear and would be distributed as they please. Basically, slow the process.

Or start offering benefit incentives for direct purchases. Like, buy XX points or more and get X% off annual passes for X amount of time. Again, not taking away anything existing from only certain groups of people.

But yeah, they make it really clear (as in make you sign a separate piece of paper relating only to member benefits with mostly large bolded type) that the benefits are not in any way shape or form guaranteed and go as far as telling you do NOT buy with the expectation of receiving anything extra at all.

 

[Matty B13]

The problem with the tiered/loyalty program is that most people would think it would guarantee benefits like discounted AP’s....... what happens if they discontinue the benefits after you have bought say 200 points? I’m sure there would be a lot of angry members who thought they bought points with guaranteed benefits.

Also, the DVC boiler plate contract would have to be rewritten for resorts going forward.

 

[Dean]

I haven’t read the specifics so I can’t say what they can and cannot do. One thing is if the benefits goes away for everyone another thing is if a lot of owners looses they benefits if they haven’t bought enough points direct. In my book that’s never gonna happen.

I too doubt it will happen and would expect they would "grandfather" but the way they'd likely would do this if they did, is to increase the minimum purchase with 50 being most likely end point. IF they did a VIP system, which they could do if they wanted, they could tier options to points and could tie them to only qualified points if they wanted. They almost certainly would not grandfather if they did start a VIP system though I doubt they will since they haven't so far.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Okay, thanks.

I guess I don't understand walking then. They let you book a reservation 7 months out and keep calling every day and moving the start and end date without canceling the reservation and giving people on the waitlist a chance, but you can't swap what points are used for one night on an existing reservation without canceling and getting behind the waitlist? That seems like an odd loophole -- if they are going to cancel one and go to the waitlist (a reasonable step), why not do it with both? What's the internal logic?

If you truly were walking at 7 months you already would be using non-home resort points. It can be done because there they allow one to modify a reservation to drop days off either end of a reservation without requiring complete cancellation. But you still have to get the initial reservation with your non-home resort points to start the reservation. And as mentioned a few times walking is not a given at 7 months as an owner can "interrupt" your walk by booking last minute in the home priority window and removing the room required for your walk. Walking works best at 11 months and is generally the time frame it is used.