Question on renting out points - am I crazy?

[MinnesotaChill]

As hard as it is to believe, we find ourselves with more points than we need! I am working to rent them out, and thought that under the new rules I could do this twice a year (maybe it's only once... I haven't been on the boards lately...). When I just called MS to make the reservation the rep made the ressie for me and then I said, "now, do the new rules allow two rental transactions per year or only one?" She said to me very politely, "mamn, you're not supposed to be doing this at all. I cannot comment on that question." I was really surprised. I asked her who I should ask and she said, "I wouldn't ask anyone if I were you. I cannot comment on your question." After that she QUIT talking!

My problem is that the first person who asked for points didn't need all of them, so I am working with someone else to rent out the rest. Will this be allowed? I've never rented out before in my life (can you tell?). I am being very up front about the fact I've never rented out before with those I'm renting to, I just don't want them to run into any problems.

 

[jodifla]

As hard as it is to believe, we find ourselves with more points than we need! I am working to rent them out, and thought that under the new rules I could do this twice a year (maybe it's only once... I haven't been on the boards lately...). When I just called MS to make the reservation the rep made the ressie for me and then I said, "now, do the new rules allow two rental transactions per year or only one?" She said to me very politely, "mamn, you're not supposed to be doing this at all. I cannot comment on that question." I was really surprised. I asked her who I should ask and she said, "I wouldn't ask anyone if I were you. I cannot comment on your question." After that she QUIT talking!

My problem is that the first person who asked for points didn't need all of them, so I am working with someone else to rent out the rest. Will this be allowed? I've never rented out before in my life (can you tell?). I am being very up front about the fact I've never rented out before with those I'm renting to, I just don't want them to run into any problems.

The rule you are thinking of is transferring points. That you are only allowed to do once a year.

Renting points for COMMERCIAL purposes is forbidden. Renting out once or twice a year isn't forbidden.

 

[Doctor P]

Renting out once or twice a year isn't forbidden.

Can you cite the section of the POS or contract that states this??? Renting out once a year may or may not be commercial renting. Depends on the circumstances and many other factors.

 

[mprewitt]

Can you cite the section of the POS or contract that states this??? Renting out once a year may or may not be commercial renting. Depends on the circumstances and many other factors.

Disney's AKV Component Site Public Offerring Statement, page 187, has a section that specifically covers club member rentals, showing that only "commercial use" is forbidden.

 

[JimMIA]

Can you cite the section of the POS or contract that states this???

Actually, I don't believe the POS contains any sections which list unforbidden activities. So unless someone can quote a section which says renting one or two times IS forbidden, I'd say jodifla is probably correct.

The only situations where I've heard of DVC questioning rental activities have been with people who made 20+ ressies a year.

I think OP's MS person was just having a "less than magical" day.

 

[Doctor P]

Disney's AKV Component Site Public Offerring Statement, page 187, has a section that specifically covers club member rentals, showing that only "commercial use" is forbidden.

And renting once a year is not excluded from being a commercial purpose/use I would bet. There are a lot of elements in determining commercial use, and a pattern of rental is one of them. I'm not saying the OP is or would be a commercial renter, but advice given that one or two times a year is not a violation of the POS is simply not supported by any legally binding written statements in the POS. "Renting is not prohibited; renting more than one time in a one particular year is not prohibited." I feel comfortable with those statements and they answer the OP's questions.

 

[Amy5000]

As hard as it is to believe, we find ourselves with more points than we need! I am working to rent them out, and thought that under the new rules I could do this twice a year (maybe it's only once... I haven't been on the boards lately...). When I just called MS to make the reservation the rep made the ressie for me and then I said, "now, do the new rules allow two rental transactions per year or only one?" She said to me very politely, "mamn, you're not supposed to be doing this at all. I cannot comment on that question." I was really surprised. I asked her who I should ask and she said, "I wouldn't ask anyone if I were you. I cannot comment on your question." After that she QUIT talking!

My problem is that the first person who asked for points didn't need all of them, so I am working with someone else to rent out the rest. Will this be allowed? I've never rented out before in my life (can you tell?). I am being very up front about the fact I've never rented out before with those I'm renting to, I just don't want them to run into any problems.

Hi Minnesota:

First, my impression from reading these boards is that occasional renting is ok. That said, I would not mention it to MS. What I think you are thinking of is that there are DISBoard limitations on certain postings on the Rent/Trade Board:

"A maximum of two (2) posts for existing reservations may be posted within a given calendar year (Jan-Dec). If required, both may be posted on the board at the same time. It is not necessary to wait for the first reservation to sell before posting the 2nd reservation."

Could you have been thinking of this limitation?

In any event, good luck.

 

[MinnesotaChill]

One of the reasons we added last fall on was to be able to gift a week here and there to people who wouldn't otherwise be able to go to Disney. Our second such trip will be in Jan - a Grand Villa trip with a family that could otherwise not afford to go (we are covering their lodging). There may be times where we won't be able to travel with the family receiving the gift (hasn't happened so far, but you never know). If we lose our ability to do this because I will be making the reservation in someone else's name, we also lose the reason for our extra points and will likely sell them. I made a mistake today in happily mentioning, "oh no, this reservation isn't for me, it is for someone I'm renting the points to..." dumb, dumb, dumb. As I said, I've never rented before so I didn't know I should be careful.

In the future, however, how on earth will MS know if I am using the points for family and friends as gifts or if I am renting them out? I only own 300 pts and we do plan to use the lion's share of them, so likely I won't run into problems (certainly I wouldn't think my infrequent "gift trips" would raise any red flags) but it makes for an interesting problem...

I am probably opening up a can of worms, but honestly when this debate was going on months ago, I didn't pay much attention, because I never plan to rent commercially.

 

[Doctor P]

One of the reasons we added last fall on was to be able to gift a week here and there to people who wouldn't otherwise be able to go to Disney. Our second such trip will be in Jan - a Grand Villa trip with a family that could otherwise not afford to go (we are covering their lodging). There may be times where we won't be able to travel with the family receiving the gift (hasn't happened so far, but you never know). If we lose our ability to do this because I will be making the reservation in someone else's name, we also lose the reason for our extra points and will likely sell them. I made a mistake today in happily mentioning, "oh no, this reservation isn't for me, it is for someone I'm renting the points to..." dumb, dumb, dumb. As I said, I've never rented before so I didn't know I should be careful.

In the future, however, how on earth will MS know if I am using the points for family and friends as gifts or if I am renting them out? I only own 300 pts and we do plan to use the lion's share of them, so likely I won't run into problems (certainly I wouldn't think my infrequent "gift trips" would raise any red flags) but it makes for an interesting problem...

I am probably opening up a can of worms, but honestly when this debate was going on months ago, I didn't pay much attention, because I never plan to rent commercially.

The reason they will know is that you signed a contract that said that you would inform MS every time that the person you were making a reservation for was a renter. They distinguish between a renter and a guest in their POS, and the POS provides for the requirement that you must notify MS if the party is a renter.

 

[MinnesotaChill]

Ok, so what I did was right (notify them it was a renter) I just got a stickler in my MS rep. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

 

[Doctor P]

Ok, so what I did was right (notify them it was a renter) I just got a stickler in my MS rep. Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Actually, I think the mistake you made was (inadvertantly) asking a QUESTION about renting. Technically, answering the question might be considered to be assisting you with renting. A stickler would say that is something DVC has declared they won't do in the POS. I don't agree with that interpretation in this case, BTW.

 

[keys2kingdom]

The reason they will know is that you signed a contract that said that you would inform MS every time that the person you were making a reservation for was a renter. They distinguish between a renter and a guest in their POS, and the POS provides for the requirement that you must notify MS if the party is a renter.

Some people choose to "conveniently" overlook this part, but it's definitely right there in the POS. As Doctor P said, I doubt you will ever get a MS rep to answer a question about renting. They don't want any part of it!

 

[TTFN!]

Dear Ms. Chill:

The answer like most of DVC operations depends on whom you speak with.

Many DVC Advisors (MS reps) will tell you that "No renting is permitted" when you inform them your reservation is a rental.

Yet as correctly pointed out by Dr. P. You must inform the MS-CM when you are renting under terms of the POS.

The vast majority of Owners who chose to rent (IMHO) seem to avaoid this conflict, by not volunteering the rental status of their reservation(s).

It would be interesting to see how many MS-Advisors respond this way when told that a ressie is a rental. My guess is that more will reply, "... renting is prohibitted ..." than will reply, "thanks for letting me know".

Many of us here thing the POS allows renting, some (fewer) feel it allows any type of renting, and some seem to feel that no renting at all is legal.

Any of those views may be correct, on resolved litigation (if it ever occurs) will really resolve/define the issue.

It looks to be an 'interesting' ride ahead!