Question For Teachers/Parents About Projects

[badblackpug]

25 years teaching experience her, K -12, and two kids grades 8 and 3.

Here's how I handle it as a teacher: I made the mistake of assigning a creative book report to some 8th graders the second year I taught. Most didn't do it. The other reports were obviously done by parents/grandparents. I've never again assigned a creative project to be done at home!

All projects are done in class. If it's educational, it's appropriate for class time.

As a parent here's how I handle it: I quickly figured out that some teachers assign foo-foo projects that are meant to be done largely by parents. I do these with my kids.

With my older son that meant building a replica of a World Series trophy the year he was in 5th grade. When he got to middle school I backed off and let him do them on his own.

Last year his grades went from A's and a few B's all year to straight C's the last quarter...because all his academic teachers took their grades from ONE project. It involved dozens of projects, brochures, multi-media presentations, etc. He could have gotten an easy A on it if they had assigned one at a time. Nope, they dumped the whole list in the kid's laps and stood back. Some kids had no problems with it. Any kids who had issues with organization were sunk! The way the project was organized, once the kids got behind on any one part of it, the rest came down like dominoes.

This year he has two major projects. One is due in a little over 2 weeks. It involves 5 major essays and scrapbooking. How the heck is a middle school kid supposed to have copies of photos from birth through 8th grade without parent help? They've done NOTHING on this in school since it was assigned. I've been working on it with him at home. We've already spent over 15 hours on it...and all he's finished is one essay and four of the scrapbooking sections. It took awhile for me to convince him that he HAD to the scrapbooking first. The teacher told them to do the writing first. The problem is, part of the grade is based on how well the writing and scrapbook correspond! It took awhile for him to understand that he HAS to write about topics we can support with pictures and memorabilia!

Why am I doing this with him? He'll be getting his permit in a few months and I'm not willing to pay several hundred dollars more in insurance because some project brought his grades down from A's and B's to C's.

The world has changed since I was a kid. Back then there was one family whose kids won all the Optimist's speach contests for about 10 years solid. Everyone knew it was because their mom wrote the speeches. Everyone, including the sponsors, frowned on that, but none of the other parents joined in.

Now, if you don't "help" with the project your kiddo, unless gifted in whatever medium is assigned, is going to feel horrible because 99% of the parents do help. I would consider this having caved on my values...except anymore the notes that come home state directly that parents are expected to participate in the project.

These projects are dog-and-pony shows, not learning experiences. Don't feel bad about helping!

In the teacher's defense the kids will be working on a good portion of this project in class. It is part of a social studies chapter, but there are things that will be done at home. As I said before I have no problem with helping, but I really don't think that the child learns anything if the parent is actually doing the project. I don't think this project is above the level of the students, either. They do an essay on their assigned animal and they will have a "save the animal" poster that they present to the class. They will be learning about conservation and endangered species. I guess my issue is, to reference a PP, when the kid works sooo hard on something, and does a good job, albeit age appropriate, then he shows up in school with his cardboard and paper towel roll, poster painted castle, and half the class shows up with a structure that looks like it was created by Frank Lloyd Wright! It is a blow to their little egos. Because "so-and-so's project looks waaay better than mine!" You don't want to say to your kid "his mom/dad probably did most of it" (at least you don't want to say it to my son, because he will repeat it!) I am sure that teacher's know, for the most part, who did the work and who didn't, after all if Johnny can barely draw a stick figure during art class and then shows up with the Mona Lisa, it is a little obvious! ...and I know, in all reality, the teacher can't accuse the parent of doing the work. It just seems really unfair that some kids really work hard and put their best effort into it but end up with the same grade as the kid who did very little other than watch his parent do his project.

 

[Mkrop]

Is this new thoough? I am 40 and when I was a kid, the same stuff happened. My parents were very hands off, I mean they would take me to the store for my supplies but that was it. My dad hid if it involve anything more than Math problems. So I was that kid bringing in the crappy project, and my friends had help with beautiful display boards etc.

Like I said I want my child to learn the proper way to make a clean, neat, colorful, eyecatching project. For some kids that comes naturally, for others not so much.

 

[badblackpug]

Alright, granted, it's been a long time since I've been in elementary school, and my memory is fuzzy, but I don't seem to remember this being an issue. I remember a friend who was very artistically inclined whose artwork was always better, and I remember the class "brains" whose reports were always better, but I really don't remember anyone who had a project that was way over and beyond the majority of the class. I remember pretty much all kinda crappy looking dioramas, posters, and folders. I don't know whether this is because I just never picked up on it (ADD) or whether it didn't happen as much.

I agree with encouraging them to make it neat, and to do their best work, but I really draw the line at actually doing the work for them. I may suggest that they use a ruler to make the lettering straight, or that they wipe off the extra glue, I may also give them urging to try to figure out what they can do to improve the project, such as "Is there something you can do to make the title stand out more?" I will also ask them if they are satisfied with it or if there is anything they would like to improve or change, but I absolutely draw the line at actually doing the work for them.

 

[MM27]

I don't give many take home projects, but our science fair is coming up at the end of May and we are required to assign a project. I always explain to the kids (and include in my written directions that they take home) that a big part of their grade is being able to explain what their project is about. I've had students that had awesome projects, but when I asked them questions about it, they have no clue what is does, what it's about, etc. I don't give a good grade just because it's pretty.

I actually had one parent one year that asked me at the science fair, "What grade did WE get?"

 

[starsweeper]

When I taught, all projects were done in class to prevent parental involvement--I want to know what the kids understand, not their parents. I did my own projects as a kid. I may have asked for guidance on getting started from a parent, but did the work myself.

 

[disfan07]

My parents never helped with these projects. My mom taught at my school and she never helped me.

Science fair was the worst. I was horendous in science in elementary school and middle school (now that I am in college I love biology). My dad has his PhD in Physics and while he might have thrown out a suggestion here or there if I was really stuck on what to do, they never actually did any of the project for me. My project, my responsibility.

But, I am also EXTREMELY OCD about school work. So if my parents did try to help with gluing, or cutting etc, it probably would have just ended with us fighting because it has to be absolutely perfect or else I have to start over.

I don't think it's wrong to help them get organized so that they CAN do well, especially if they have ADD, ADHD, etc. but I believe parents should be completely hands off when it comes to projects. I think that helping them glue things onto poster board is too much help for anyone over 6 IMO.

 

[Tiger926]

As a teacher, we see this as a new obsession for parents - so many parents think their kids are going to be nuclear physicists, so they "help" them do their projects. I teach highschool, but when I taught grade school, I was asked by some kids and their parents if highschool or university/college would see those projects. Seriously? Ummm...no.

So, with so many obsessed parents hoping that their child is at the top, they'll do their homework for them. I've spoken to many parents, who don't 'teach' their child anything about the actual project or creative process. They actually do the work for them. Such a disservice they are doing...

In my at-risk school, all homework must be done at school - nothing is allowed to be taken home. There are varied reasons for this, but the biggest one is so that we can guide the student through it, teach the creative process and work on research and organization with them.

Projects have their place in highschool, but most gradeschool projects I see these days are just fluff and stuff. Another make-work project to keep kids busy...

Thanks to those parents who don't do their projects for them, and thanks to those fellow teachers who actually teach and guide students how to complete projects.

Tiger

 

[kacaju]

I do not do my kids projects. I will guide them if they need help. My brother and SIL are way too involved with my niece's assignments and it hurts me to see what they are doing to her.

examples: niece is a great artist. our town holds a poster contest. Twice I have seen my sil *help* my niece out, making her start over (the whole poster), or having her erase and redo it. This year sil was not able to bring dn, so I did. I left the kid completely alone to let her do her own work and she won this year!!

She had to do a project for school. sil was rushing to help dn do it and wrote the wrong thing on the poster. No time to run out and buy a new poster so now the poster has a piece of paper taped over the mistake that Mom did.

dn made a banner for Church. SIL told me: I didn't have time to help her, she did it herself. It is not the way *we* (meaning her and my brother) would have done it, but I guess it will have to do.

This is not helping my niece at all. I have no problem if they child truly needs help, but don't take over the projects for them.

 

[Minniemouse07]

My dd is in 3rd grade and they just started doing a monthly project February.. she just turned her third one in this morning! In addition to the actual project, each student is graded on their oral presentation (and q&a). Beth's teacher complimented Beth's projects at our recent conference and told me it was very apparent that BETH worked hard on them!

February - Hero Project. They were studying heroes in school and they had to pick TWO to do projects on. One was for a home project and one was for school. Beth did her home project on Helen Keller. She read multiple books about her and came up a with a list of items to put in her "time capsule." They were: a doll (her Belle doll), a drawing of a water pump, a diploma, the Presidential Medal of Freedom (an toy Olympic medal), and a copy of Helen Keller's book.

Beth did all the work, I helped her by showing how to draw the water pump on a separate piece of paper, and to figure out what to write on the diploma and the book (5 folded pieces of paper w/ the title on front and title page).

Beth had to label each item which she wrote out and I typed them in the computer for her (she hates typing).

Her school project was on Walt Disney. I gave her a bunch of books I had at home (go figure that I would have resources for her!) and the entire project was done at school. They all used Prezi to put together their presentations and Beth's was awesome. Her teacher said that Beth really got into the project and did a great job and went further with it than most of the other students.

March - Habitats. They had to choose a habitat and pack a suitcase to go visit it. Beth picked a beach in MD that we go to. She did a ton of research on her own and then we had to include pictures and write ups on landmarks, famous people, wildlife, etc. Beth did all of it as well as a diary entry of a day she spent there.

This month's project was based on our heritage. Beth picked Italy, looked up all the info and found images to place on her poster. I helped her resize and print the images and she labeled everything and arranged it. This was a mini-project so not as much research/work was involved.

I'm a former teacher so I definitely agree with making sure it is Beth's project. I try and help guide her through her ideas, but won't DO the project for her. We've also lived through two Science fair projects!

 

[ShannonMB]

As a teacher, if I give a project to the kids that they need to complete at home (not very often) I will not grade the actual work. Instead, I have students present their project and I grade it as an oral presentation. I don't think there's a fair way to grade a project when you have no way of knowing who did what work. I also try to limit the amount of projects that get sent home. In theory, projects seem like a great way for parent and child to spend time together, but the reality is they usually end up causing more grief for both parent and child than any actual learning.

TESTIFY! I appreciate your approach very much, and I feel badblackpug's pain. I already did all of my school posterboard projects when I was in school (without my mom's help, I might add) and have no intention of doing them again. It is the child's project, and to me, that means it should be a project that they are capable of doing pretty independently. Should look approximately as if done by someone of that grade level (give or take a bit for the more artistic). But of course most of them are obviously heavily influenced by an adult, and some of them look downright EXPENSIVE! - so you feel like the bad parent because you didn't do your kid's project or spend $50 on supplies. OVER THE TOP!

 

[WeLoveLilo05]

uggggh! I HATE THIS! I used to really enjoy doing projects as a kid, Im crafty so it wasn't something that I hated, but what I HATED was there was one boy who went from k-12 with me and his mom did all his projects for him. All of us kids knew it, these were pristine projects. I remember in 4th grade we had to do a diorama of a Lenape village...this kid had like real grass growing, water running thru the diorama like a stream, deerskins cut up, it was really something else!

 

[polkadotsuitcase]

Then I realized that this is really about their education, not how great the project is.

The only thing I will do is help with time management so that they don't end up doing their project the night before it's due.

Don't always judge a project by what it looks like. I agree that many parents give too much help, but at the same time some kids are just more advanced than others.

These quotes summarize what I would have said, had I joined this thread earlier!

It can be hard for the child to see others' projects that look like a professional artist/scientist labored over them, but then I guess it's our job as a parent to step in at that point and make observations like, "Hey, you really worked hard, cutting your cells from Styrofoam. It really paid off -- they look realistic." (Or whatever.) And then you can make other observations, like, "Oh, Superstar Sally (kidding! ) used Sculpey clay for her cells. That's a different way to do it."

I think focusing on the hard work your child put into it is what matters, letting them feel good for their effort. Tough one, though, for sure!

 

[taximomfor4]

I don't help. At ALL. WHen seeing the projects displayed up at the kids' school, it is rather obvious that my kids were in the minority but I don't care. I want them to be proud of what they did all by themselves. Kids are in 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 12th. They knew how to glue things down starting before Kindergarten, and can all write their own letters.

Yes, their grade unfortunately suffers sometimes (rarely, I'd say) but not much (perhaps a "B" for not being as creative or as neat.)

Anyway, I don't believe in "Parent Homework." To tell the truth, I don't look over their math homework before they turn it in, nor do I look over their projects/posters before they turn them in.

I will add, dd in 6th grade has always struggled with a few disabilities including fine motor delay. Doing a project is a long, painstaking project for her. It takes a LOT of extra time to pour a dab of glue out, and her hands have a constant tremor so writing can be a bit shaky. HOWEVER...she does her own projects too. We just help with time management, knowing she will have to work for a loooooong time.

 

[J3nn78]

As a teacher, I much prefer the projects that I KNOW are done by the kids. Drives me nuts when I see that parents did them. I usually write a comment about the kids should do their own work on the grading rubric.
As a teacher, I KNOW when my students did work and when parents helped, gifted or advanced or not. YOu are not fooling me.

 

[EKW]

Jumping in again...it sounds like the original post was more a gripe about parents who do projects than an actual survey of how parents feel about projects.

Along that line...last year my younger son wanted to participate in the school science fair. Obviously, at age 7 he doesn't have the scientific process memorized, so I let him select a project and helped him organize it. He did all the work and we built the display board together. It was obvious from his charts and graphs and the wording that the work was his. It took him hours to write everything for the report booklet out, but he did.

When we got to the fair the little girl next to us had a presentation on rainbows...that consisted only of pictures cut from magazines and scraps of paper and fabric. She had no research, no project, and there was no hint of the scientific process.

The boy across the way had a 6' long fulcrum built with industrial grade materials...so people could stand on one and and, by moving the weight on the other end, try to balance themselves. You're telling me an end 8 year old was capable of constructing that...it involved probably 100 lbs of materials that were welded, bolted, etc. Again, there was no sign of the scientific process. Just a project.

Then there were the volcano kids...you know what I mean...the fun, but learning-free projects.

And, scattered around the gym there were another couple of dozen kids who, like my son, had actually produced science fair projects.

Guess what? When the judges were done evaluating, EVERYONE got a blue participation award. We'd paid to participate, my son spent hours and hours working, and to him that was a kick in the teeth.

I may be very jaded about home projects, but, in my experience, when none of the work is done at school, they are not meant to be educational. They're to give the teacher and school something to brag about in the newletter or newspaper.

 

[vhartwell]

As a Math teacher I assign a "Senior Project" which is a Math ABC book. This is something the parent AVOID. Who wants to make an ABC book full of math terms, definitions and pictures??
My 9-11th graders have a more complex project..They pick a state from a bottle and plan a vacation from it. They have to make a power point and then present it to the class. Again, since math is involved..my parents usually avoid these like the plague.

There was this one time when I gave a pretest to see what they knew and I had a kid come back with EVERY answer right...seems her dad did the test. When I called him and told him she made a 100% on the test he was very happy until I explained that my class was too LOW for her (I teach special education) math skills and she would have to move to a higher class....he had to fess up that he did the work. Since then he has let her do her own math!!!!

I do grade on the kids work and I deduct points if parents have helped "too" much since I know my kids skill levels.

 

[ShannonMB]

Jumping in again...it sounds like the original post was more a gripe about parents who do projects than an actual survey of how parents feel about projects.

Along that line...last year my younger son wanted to participate in the school science fair. Obviously, at age 7 he doesn't have the scientific process memorized, so I let him select a project and helped him organize it. He did all the work and we built the display board together. It was obvious from his charts and graphs and the wording that the work was his. It took him hours to write everything for the report booklet out, but he did.

When we got to the fair the little girl next to us had a presentation on rainbows...that consisted only of pictures cut from magazines and scraps of paper and fabric. She had no research, no project, and there was no hint of the scientific process.

The boy across the way had a 6' long fulcrum built with industrial grade materials...so people could stand on one and and, by moving the weight on the other end, try to balance themselves. You're telling me an end 8 year old was capable of constructing that...it involved probably 100 lbs of materials that were welded, bolted, etc. Again, there was no sign of the scientific process. Just a project.

Then there were the volcano kids...you know what I mean...the fun, but learning-free projects.

And, scattered around the gym there were another couple of dozen kids who, like my son, had actually produced science fair projects.

Guess what? When the judges were done evaluating, EVERYONE got a blue participation award. We'd paid to participate, my son spent hours and hours working, and to him that was a kick in the teeth.

I may be very jaded about home projects, but, in my experience, when none of the work is done at school, they are not meant to be educational. They're to give the teacher and school something to brag about in the newletter or newspaper.

I take the chance of revealing myself as a bad mom by responding here (not that it probably hasn't happened before ), but this whole thing is why I'm glad our elementary school science fairs are optional in the younger grades. Of course when they brag them up in the newsletters, etc, my DD always thinks it would be a great ol' time to participate, but I have said no up till now.

I don't think my DD in 3rd grade has a firm grasp on the scientific method yet. I believe (or, hope! -- correct me if I am wrong!) she will be learning that thoroughly in school within the next couple of years. Being no scientist myself, I really don't want to teach it to her (as it sounds like you spent hours doing), and my own personal science fair projects when I was in school were pretty lame as I recall. I would like to see what SHE is capable of coming up with when the time is right. And since, as you said, everyone just gets the *blue ribbon* prize, I'd rather she focus all those hours on this year's big work (getting in all that reading time, practicing and memorizing multiplication/division facts, etc). I'm not building a mini space shuttle, and she can make a rainbow poster for her room any time she wants . We'll save the science fair for when she is really understanding the methods and can come up with and execute a doable experiment on her own.

I'm definitely not flaming you, I really commend you on helping your DS to come up with a real project and guiding/teaching him what needed to be done. And bless his little heart for working so hard on his project! He may not have gotten the recognition he deserved, but I bet he did learn an awful lot!

 

[badblackpug]

Jumping in again...it sounds like the original post was more a gripe about parents who do projects than an actual survey of how parents feel about projects.

Along that line...last year my younger son wanted to participate in the school science fair. Obviously, at age 7 he doesn't have the scientific process memorized, so I let him select a project and helped him organize it. He did all the work and we built the display board together. It was obvious from his charts and graphs and the wording that the work was his. It took him hours to write everything for the report booklet out, but he did.

When we got to the fair the little girl next to us had a presentation on rainbows...that consisted only of pictures cut from magazines and scraps of paper and fabric. She had no research, no project, and there was no hint of the scientific process.

The boy across the way had a 6' long fulcrum built with industrial grade materials...so people could stand on one and and, by moving the weight on the other end, try to balance themselves. You're telling me an end 8 year old was capable of constructing that...it involved probably 100 lbs of materials that were welded, bolted, etc. Again, there was no sign of the scientific process. Just a project.

Then there were the volcano kids...you know what I mean...the fun, but learning-free projects.

And, scattered around the gym there were another couple of dozen kids who, like my son, had actually produced science fair projects.

Guess what? When the judges were done evaluating, EVERYONE got a blue participation award. We'd paid to participate, my son spent hours and hours working, and to him that was a kick in the teeth.

I may be very jaded about home projects, but, in my experience, when none of the work is done at school, they are not meant to be educational. They're to give the teacher and school something to brag about in the newletter or newspaper.

Not really a gripe. It was beginning to feel like I was in the minority as far as "helping" with projects. I really wanted to know, in all honesty, if parents do admit to doing a good majority of their children's projects. I was also wondering how teachers went about grading these things. It does seem so unfair to me that one kid may have worked his/her butt off on a project, that they did by themselves and another child did little or no work themselves, but in the end they received the same grade.

My son is not so sensitive. He doesn't really compare his work to others. If he likes what he did and knows he worked hard he is satisfied with that. My daughter (older) is more sensitive. She compares her displays to other students and does feel embarrassed if she feels hers doesn't measure up. (but there is no way in the world that I would say to her "It looks like so-and-so's parents did a lot of the project")

I know that all kids have different abilities. I also know that the teacher is pretty aware of what kids have what abilities. So, when little Johnny who could barely operate the pencil sharpener, shows up with an industrial strength fulcrum, the teacher is not fooled.

I really don't have an issue with projects, per se. I think that they can be a fun or interesting way to learn about certain things, especially if they are combined with classroom instruction. I agree, that there are certain teachers that use them as busy work. Our schools don't participate in science fair until middle school, so it really isn't an issue with the elementary crowd. Our elementary science projects are ones the whole class participates in and does in class. Most of our at home projects, involve social studies or are creative book reports.

 

[winefairie]

Okay, since this was brought up I just thought that this would be a great time to vent big time! DS is in 5th grade, just finished his 4th project of the month, all a major part of his last semester grade. Did we help him...yes...why? Well, in Social Studies his rough draft was returned with no corrections or suggestions. His homework takes him at least 2 to 3 hours to complete at home without projects. This has been a huge eye opener. I did proof read, ask questions, told him that rough draft did not flow and did not follow his outline etc. His science project was huge. I had to order aquatic plants from the internet, pick them up at the UPS center so they wouldn't freeze on the porch while we were on a spring break trip...yes I help...yes I hate it...why do we expect our kids to go to school for 8 hrs a day and then have homework for hours at home when we don't want to do that much with our paying jobs in real life. I do not remember doing this much school work at home...arg! I really hated the power point project...didn't have that program on our home computer but he had to do it at home...then required that he bring it to school on a never used jump jack so that we didn't infect their computers with a virus Oh and the reading project that had to have clay people that depicted the characters in the book...someone from a different group thought that it would be fun to trash my sons group project during recess, group project was late because it wasn't finished(auto 20%off for being late)...not a good year for the project thing. Way to many hours spent on busy work...again just venting.

 

[Tiger926]

Just a thought after reading new posts - not sure why people have a problem with having a discussion with their kids about the differences between projects, workloads, etc. If the project looks like it's obviously been done by an adult, then I think it's fine to discuss this in a teachable way. If you have a kid who is sensitive, and notices these things, then as a parent, you need to have this conversation and not just brush it off.

Sensitive and competitive kids notice everything, so dismissing the fact that a parent 'helped' or even completed the project is unfair, IMHO.

My DD is only 6, and we have already had these conversations, and it has gone a long way in protecting her self esteem. Of course though, you really have to know your kids, and be able to approach the conversation as more of a critical thinking exercise, and not a venting conversation or passing judgment as you don't want your child to go to school and make comments to the adult helped science fair kids.

It is something that can and should be done, IMHO, Tiger