Question For Teachers/Parents About Projects

[badblackpug]

It's that time of year again! My 3rd grader has a project. It involves a report and a poster. The issue I have is this: When you see the projects on display it is quite obvious that some of the students parents had a "heavy hand" in helping them with their project. I may help with research, or proofreading or organizing, but I don't do any of the actual work. Unfortunately, or fortunately, my 3rd graders project will look like it was done by a 3rd grader, while a lot of other children's projects will look like (and very likely have been) they were done by college graduates. The kids think this isn't "fair" because the other kids projects are "better" than theirs.

My questions are:

Teachers, how do you grade these projects? Especially when it is obvious that some children have had a lot of "help" and other children have done the work on their own?

Parents, how much "help" do you give your children with these projects?

 

[happymommy]

I used to help with projects, but honestly, I do not at all now. I haven't for a couple of years.

When my kids turn in a project or poster or report, it looks like they did it. Every teacher that I've spoken with has expressed their preference for the project to be done by the student with minimal assistance from the parents. It is the only way for the teacher to see the strengths and weaknesses in the student's ability. I think the only ones that really notice the difference, on something like science fair night, are the parents! Some go all out, and honestly I am not into that.

I did break away gradually, and still do help a tiny bit here and there (like, gluing something while my child does something else). I keep telling myself I'm not going to college with them!

It's sometimes hard, but they need to figure out how to get their work done by themselves. Our school does a great job with helping them learn how to research, do notes, and put together a research paper (my fifth grader has done better ones than I had done in high school!).

I think the less a parent does, the better (for the most part). Plus, the child has the good feeling that he or she did it!

 

[jlstwinmommy]

Projects used to bother me for this very reason. When my DS12 was in 2nd grade, they had a science fair. He is my first child and I had no experience in these things, so we followed the directions and let him to the project entirely by himself. We picked how many apple seeds are in different types of apples. The only thing I had to do was cut the apples. When we got to the science fair, it was apparent that he was about the only one who did the project alone. In fact, the parent of the child who won the science fair bragged that their kid never even got involved in the project at all. My child was devestated at the time. Then I realized that this is really about their education, not how great the project is. Obviously, I could complete a great grade school project and he would get a great grade, but my child would learn nothing from that. Now we go into every project with the attitude that as long as he does his best work, it doesn't matter. I do have to remind him not to worry about other projects, we only care about how his project turns out and that he learned something. I have to say that he has always gotten a good grade on the projects he has done. We do have him type whenever possible as his handwriting is atrocious.

This year, DS had to do another science fair (6th grade this time). The project he picked required burning food over an open flame, so his dad did help by actually burning the food. Other than that, DS took the pictures and measurements of the project himself and did all the calculations himself (at least he plugeed the results in a spreadsheet, I guess Excel did the calculations ). Like PP, I also will help with gluing when preparing the poster, but otherwise he does the work. I think it gives him a better sense of accomplishment in the end.

 

[MichelleinMaine]

This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I had a friend growing up whose mom did ALL her projects. Also, in my brother's cub scout Pinewood Derby, it bugged the heck out of me the boys that always won were the ones you KNOW the dad did the whole car!

My kids both know (and hear repeatedly ) that I managed to pass third grade, or whatever one they are in, this is THEIR project. I will help organizing (some teachers dont' give them a timeline- find your books by this date, have your notes by this date... that is a skill I think they need to learn and I will guide them how to set those goals.) I also will talk with them about what sort of resources they think they will need for a display. ("Ok, you're doing a diorama, what will you be making it with?" etc) I'll help them figure if we have those things or take them to the store to get them. Will also proofread papers and give basic graphics art suggestions for posters. ("It's good to make your title a huge font so people can see it right away." "What do you think about making some of your pictures in color, is that more interesting?")

I want them to own it. As said, they aren't learning if I do it (and frankly, I don't have the time.)

I can't speak for teachers, but I will say I have told judges to take parental involvement into account when determining winners of our local pinewood derby. If they aren't sure, they are invited to talk to the kids and see if they can explain how they did XYZ to their car. I had one boy say he wasn't sure exactly how he got the fancy paintjob on it because his dad had brought it into the autobody shop where he worked. Needless to say, he did not get an award for that. On the flip side though, I had one boy who ALWAYS won every race. Out of curiousity, I asked him about it. He told me in detail the steps he and his dad had done together to make it fast. They were very obviously working together- and the boy was learning for sure!

 

[ncmickeyluvr]

I don't help at all with my children's projects. The only thing I will do is help with time management so that they don't end up doing their project the night before it's due. I actually got an email from dd's teacher last week thanking me for allowing her to do her own work. I think it's important to remember that children learn from mistakes!! Let them make some now and then.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

Don't always judge a project by what it looks like. I agree that many parents give too much help, but at the same time some kids are just more advanced than others.

I used to babysit a little girl who was really smart, and had natural artistic ability. She made projects that were better than what I could do by the time she was in 2nd grade. I watched her do them with no help.

My son has done some projects that seem far advanced for his age. He doesn't have the artistic ability so you can tell no one helped him draw or write the project, but his content is advanced. I always worry the teacher will think I told him what to do and how to do it.

So please don't always jump to conclusions. You would be surprised at the ability of some children. Ask the child what they did and how they did it.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

We make our kids do the research (with a little guidance) but end up helping with any actual "craft" work that might be involved, especially for our son, who isn't the most careful and neat student.

While presentations are a great way of showing a student understands the information, the actual manual labor behind it is such a pain in the butt.

 

[luvmy3]

The only involvement from me is making sure that my child has the materials needed. They even have to figure out what materials they are going to use, I do help my youngest with that though. I have a friend who does all the work (mostly after her kid is in bed) for all her kids. She admits it and knows its wrong but she also says she is too worried that it will "look" bad if her kid does it and they will get a bad grade. Unfortunately it seems that the teachers don't say anything to her about it and still give her kid a good grade, at least she tells me they get a good grade

In the second grade my ds had to make a windmill, the sheet that came home had suggestions to use milk cartons. Well that was not good enough for my ds, he wanted to build a windmill so we let him design one. He came up with a simple design using wood, and a pinwheel. All dh did was cut the wood with the table saw, and drill some pilot holes. He had ds do all the screws and sanding. When we went to open house they were all displayed and they were all made out of milk cartons except for ds's. I'm sure that all the parents assumed that dh or I had done it all but that wasn't the case. Sometimes things aren't as they appear so I try not to judge.

 

[poohfriend77]

I'm sure teachers take into account how much work the students actually did.

DD7 (1st grade) turned in her science fair project yesterday. She grew sugar crystals in various conditions (sunlight, dark cabinet, fridge, etc.) I researched how to do it and found the "recipe." I also helped her use the stove to boil the water, although she dumped in the sugar and stirred the mixture.

When making her poster, I asked her questions, but I wanted everything to be in HER words, not mine. She formed her own hypothesis and could explain every step of the process, as well as her conclusion. She started typing the labels for her poster, but she got frustrated by how slow it was, so I typed what she told me. The teacher asked them to explain what they did, so I'm sure she could tell which kids really understood their project. In first grade, they don't really get grades on projects, so the focus is really on the learning process. I can't wait to go to the fair tomorrow to check out all the other projects. I did have one mom complaining to me about how much work she put into "her" project, lol.

 

[RF536]

We will help them, but we will not do the project for them. DS9 is in the 3rd grade and this year had to make a model of a wigwam, so we helped him decide what he was going to use to make it and also helped him gather what he needed. The directions suggested you use paper bags, thin cardboard or fake leather, he didn't like how that looked so he wanted to use bark like he had seen kids use in previous years. After he had gathered the bark and the small twigs to make the frame, DH and him set to work making it. Since they were using bark, they ended up hot glueing the bark to the frame, so DS would tell DH were to put the glue and he would decide what piece of bark to use. The end result was very nice, and I am sure that others probably think that we made it for him, but the project was very much his doing. He even thought to glue some plastic animals he had to the board to make it more realistic, as well as adding a cooking fire in front of the wigwam.

 

[Mkrop]

This is a pet peeve of mine also but probably not how you think.

I dont see why we cant as parents help and guide them. I am just not about to throw my kids a poster board and say good luck. They need to be TAUGHT how to do a display board or a diorama properly.

I will use DS12 as my example. The kid is straight As, can do any book report, or research paper and believe me his school gives out TONS of projects, but if you throw in a creative element, the kid freezes, get stressed etc. He does not have an artitistic bone in his body.

He also gets extremely embarrassed if his does not look like the other kids because of his lack of artistic ability.

So just if my kid struggled in Math I would do flash cards or something, since my kids struggle doing projects, I work with them side by side. I dont see a difference, I am hleping him in his weak subject, art!

I buy him peel off letters to use so he doesnt stress over writing titles, we try to use pictures off the Internet if allowed,he types things vs writing. We work on laying everything out if it is a poster board and then he cuts and glues it all.

For example two years ago he had to do a project on Walt Disney. He had to make a paper doll and then also draw a place where Walt had been. So we went online found a picture of the Walt statue from WDW, printed it out and I bought tracing paper and he traced it and glued it on carboard. We did the same with Sleeping Beauty's Castle in DL. He took tracing paper to the photo and it looked great.

He never would have accomplished this on his own, he was very proud of his project. It looked great.

Now that he is older, he can do some of it himself but still asks for help when necessary. I have talked to the teachers about it and they are fine with it because they know DS knows the material inside and out and just needs a helping hand in the artistic side of school projects.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I dont see why we cant as parents help and guide them. I am just not about to throw my kids a poster board and say good luck. They need to be TAUGHT how to do a display board or a diorama properly.

I agree. My kids have learned how to create a PowerPoint and a web page, but were never taught how to lay out either one of them to get across the information they are trying to show. Since this isn't something they do in school, it is up to parents to help and teach their kids how design and layout posters, etc.

The kids still have to gather the information themselves, but finding the prettiest font and color for the presentation? Does it matter if the parent helps with that?

 

[steph124ny]

I agree. My kids have learned how to create a PowerPoint and a web page, but were never taught how to lay out either one of them to get across the information they are trying to show. Since this isn't something they do in school, it is up to parents to help and teach their kids how design and layout posters, etc.

The kids still have to gather the information themselves, but finding the prettiest font and color for the presentation? Does it matter if the parent helps with that?

It's fine to HELP your kids. It's not fine to do it for them. As long as you are working on things together and your child is learning something about the process and the material...it's a good thing! I remember doing a woodworking project with my dad when I was a kid. I had no idea how to do any of it, so he showed me and we worked on them together. It was a great experience, but I certainly didn;t do it by myself.

 

[PinkRhombus]

Thing to remember is those parents are not doing their kids any favors. This will be evident later on.


I guide. I provide the tools and materials. I explain how to do something, or help them figure out how to determine something, but I don't do it for them. I may hold something for them if they're needing to tape it down...that's about it.

The teacher asked them to explain what they did, so I'm sure she could tell which kids really understood their project.

I love these types of teachers.

 

[rodeo65]

I absolutely agree with the idea of helping but not doing it for them. I help my ADHD DS with his projects in terms of organization and planning because without some guidance it just would not get done. In terms of creativity or ideas - it's all his. DD has not had any projects to complete at home so far - that comes next year.

This year (grade 3) his class had an assignment to make a castle out of boxes etc they could find. This was to combine the unit on Medeival Times with the unit on Geometry. He had to explain the parts of his castle as well as name the geometric shapes used. He collected cereal boxes, milk cartons, paper towel rolls and the like and created this very "unusual" looking castle, but was very proud of the fact that he installed a working drawbridge using string and a bottle cap as the pulley. He did it all other than his dad reinforcing some of the pieces he'd taped on so they didn't come loose.

I drove him to school that morning as did most parents rather than have them take the bus carrying these big creations. I could not believe the castles coming down the halls. They looked like architectural masterpieces made from craft store kits. One even had the model trees and greenery from like a model train set as well as a moat with real water in it. The parents were proudly carrying them down the hallways with the kids who were supposed to have done them trailing behind. DS was completely happy with his but his face fell a little when he saw some of the masterpieces. You could tell about half the class had done the work themselves and the other half, not so much.

He's still proud of his work and knows it is in fact HIS work. It sits on display on his dresser at home now. As others have said; I tell him I've graduated school, it's his turn, but I'm there to help if he's stuck. And yes, it does bug me, but then I try to think about how insecure those parents must be to make sure their kids' project is the best, rather than allow their child to shine on their own.

 

[badblackpug]

I have no issue with helping. I said I help. I proof read I give advice, but I don't actually do the work. For instance, I might ask "What can you do to make the poster more interesting? So that more people will notice it?" and I let them come up with ideas.

My son, too, is bright. He is very verbal, and has a great vocabulary, but, he, too, is not artistically inclined. So, his written presentation is often far better than his artistic rendering.

Our project is the rain forest. Each child will do a report on an animal and a "save the animal" poster. I know that other kids have better artistic ability, but I also know that in some of these projects had a heavy parental hand. I was just wondering how, as a teacher, you grade these. My kids have always gotten good grades on their projects, but with my daughter, who is older and much more sensitive, she often felt embarrassed about her project in comparison to others. ...and the kids in the class know who has what ability...she will say...Susie draws really good, that's her poster, or Billy is the best at science, that's his project. ...and I have met parents who admit that they do their kids project.

By the way...I love the line "I managed to pass the 3rd grade."

 

[Taja]

Yikes! My parents never did any of my school work for me. They helped me to organize and learn how to do various things, but they never did them for me. Thank goodness! *LOL*

One of my best friends in elementary school was a phenomenal artist--she still is! Her projects always looked far better than mine--unless I was allowed to build it using wood or sew it from fabric! Then I was one up on her skills! And we're still friends many years later!

I worked at one of the major craft/hobby stores for about two years and was astonished by the parents who came in and were upset that kits weren't available for all of their children's projects (some were, such as the solar system) and about 90% of them were planning to do the work for the children.

As others have noted, the children learn nothing if someone else does it. Assistance can be a good thing, though.

 

[SplashMountainMama]

As a teacher, if I give a project to the kids that they need to complete at home (not very often) I will not grade the actual work. Instead, I have students present their project and I grade it as an oral presentation. I don't think there's a fair way to grade a project when you have no way of knowing who did what work. I also try to limit the amount of projects that get sent home. In theory, projects seem like a great way for parent and child to spend time together, but the reality is they usually end up causing more grief for both parent and child than any actual learning.

 

[EKW]

25 years teaching experience here, K -12, and two kids grades 8 and 3.

Here's how I handle it as a teacher: I made the mistake of assigning a creative book report to some 8th graders the second year I taught. Most didn't do it. The other reports were obviously done by parents/grandparents. I've never again assigned a creative project to be done at home!

All projects are done in class. If it's educational, it's appropriate for class time.

As a parent here's how I handle it: I quickly figured out that some teachers assign foo-foo projects that are meant to be done largely by parents. I do these with my kids.

With my older son that meant building a replica of a World Series trophy the year he was in 5th grade. When he got to middle school I backed off and let him do them on his own.

Last year his grades went from A's and a few B's all year to straight C's the last quarter...because all his academic teachers took their grades from ONE project. It involved dozens of projects, brochures, multi-media presentations, etc. He could have gotten an easy A on it if they had assigned one at a time. Nope, they dumped the whole list in the kid's laps and stood back. Some kids had no problems with it. Any kids who had issues with organization were sunk! The way the project was organized, once the kids got behind on any one part of it, the rest came down like dominoes.

This year he has two major projects. One is due in a little over 2 weeks. It involves 5 major essays and scrapbooking. How the heck is a middle school kid supposed to have copies of photos from birth through 8th grade without parent help? They've done NOTHING on this in school since it was assigned. I've been working on it with him at home. We've already spent over 15 hours on it...and all he's finished is one essay and four of the scrapbooking sections. It took awhile for me to convince him that he HAD to the scrapbooking first. The teacher told them to do the writing first. The problem is, part of the grade is based on how well the writing and scrapbook correspond! It took awhile for him to understand that he HAS to write about topics we can support with pictures and memorabilia!

Why am I doing this with him? He'll be getting his permit in a few months and I'm not willing to pay several hundred dollars more in insurance because some project brought his grades down from A's and B's to C's.

The world has changed since I was a kid. Back then there was one family whose kids won all the Optimist's speech contests for about 10 years solid. Everyone knew it was because their mom wrote the speeches. Everyone, including the sponsors, frowned on that, but none of the other parents joined in.

Now, if you don't "help" with the project your kiddo, unless gifted in whatever medium is assigned, is going to feel horrible because 99% of the parents do help. I would consider this having caved on my values...except anymore the notes that come home state directly that parents are expected to participate in the project.

These projects are dog-and-pony shows, not learning experiences. Don't feel bad about helping!

 

[Mathfailure]

I will/have helped my children, and if I see their frustration level overflow, I will do more than I ever thought I would. Not if they are just being lazy, but if it is too beyond them. Sometimes the assignments are nuts.

One year my son had to find a series of numbers that fit a certain criteria, he worked really hard and had finished only a few. My husband, gifted in math, was astonished at what his fourth grader was asked to do (it was an 'award' assignment as in 'you few are good in this subject so here is more work you have to do") My husband actually wrote a program to generate the answers, and we told the teacher which ones my son did all on his own and that the rest were with a lot of aid. It was too over the top, and I did not understand any of it, and I am a college graduate...he was in 4th grade.

Now, if you ask my opionion on group projects...I HATE them Seems every group has a complete slacker, a bossy one and then the worker bees.