question for owners since before year 2000.....

[mama03]

We have been owners at Boardwalk for a long time. When we first purchased it was easy to make reservations. Now within the past 2-3 years its impossible to make any reservations unless its 11 months out. We used to like to get away for maybe 2-3 days but we can never find an opening. As owners for a long time do you notice this too? I truly think its because a company, I don't know how, is able to sell rooms from owners. I thought years ago it was illegal for a company to rent rooms unless directly by the owner. Just looking for thoughts and options. Please keep it light.

 

[mama03]

We have been owners at Boardwalk for a long time. When we first purchased it was easy to make reservations. Now within the past 2-3 years its impossible to make any reservations unless its 11 months out. We used to like to get away for maybe 2-3 days but we can never find an opening. As owners for a long time do you notice this too? I truly think its because a company, I don't know how, is able to sell rooms from owners. I thought years ago it was illegal for a company to rent rooms unless directly by the owner. Just looking for thoughts and options. Please keep it light.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

We noticed the same thing at SSR. Super shocked at how busy it has become for a large resort. I wondered if it was because I need an accessible room but it never use to be this hard. I think the seasons that were low seasons have changed, September use to be low season now with F & W it's full. So we find ourselves booking early most years.

 

[CarolMN]

DVC is a lot bigger now and that means a lot more non-BWV owners are trying to get in at 7 months - especially between the beginning of F&W and the end of Marathon weekend in January. Most availability is very spotty a day or so after the 7 month window.

DVC members have caught on to this pattern and many more are buying small contracts at BWV to be sure to get in for the times they prefer. Those "new" members are using the 11 month window and very few of them are moving somewher else at 7 months. As a group, I believe both BCV & BWV owners tend to book early in the home resort priority period and they keep those reservations.

And yes, I think the rental brokers are making it easier for DVC members to rent points, and more and more renters are catching on to the fact that they have to book early if they want BWV. In fact, the brokers often run out of BWV owners with points to rent - they are charging renters MORE per point to rent BWV than some other DVC resorts before the 7 month window opens. (FWIW, the brokers match up owners & renters & provide escrow services - they don't actually make any reservations, so there is really nothing DVC can do about them, assuming they even want to stop them from offring the service).

Bottom Line: BWV owners need to book early, especially if they are particular about dates, view and villa size and travel between September & mid-January. Race weekends & some holiday periods are also tough to get at the BWV if you are booking at 7 months or closer to arrival.

It's just the nature of the system we purchased.

 

[CMNJ]

We have been owners at Boardwalk for a long time. When we first purchased it was easy to make reservations. Now within the past 2-3 years its impossible to make any reservations unless its 11 months out. We used to like to get away for maybe 2-3 days but we can never find an opening. As owners for a long time do you notice this too? I truly think its because a company, I don't know how, is able to sell rooms from owners. I thought years ago it was illegal for a company to rent rooms unless directly by the owner. Just looking for thoughts and options. Please keep it light.

We are recent owners but I think the issue is 2 reasons. 1 as you mentioned it is much easier to rent out points. I suspect in the early days people may have let points expire if they couldn't use or rent to friends/family. However in recent years with the popularity of boards like this (with rental forums) and the brokers I think point rental has become much more mainstream and easy. Brokers now pay more for home resort advantage points and encourage renters to take advantage of that to secure reservations at near park resorts like BWV. I suspect that is not the only reason, though. Many long time owners have posted on the boards how it seems like every year it gets harder to book non home resorts. I imagine there are people that have routinely been shut out of BWV for F&W (or other busy times) that eventually decide to buy there for home resort advantage and/or new DVC members like myself who doing due diligence read about how difficult it can be to book there if not an owner (so buying there specifically to stay there).We had looked at DVC a few times but finally decided to buy BWV in late 2014 for the home resort advantage. We were unable to book anything at 8 months when we closed early 2015 so we stayed at PVB and made sure to book right at 11 months to get our standard view studio for oct this year at BWV.

 

[suebeelin]

Newish owner here too (5/6yrs).

I tried to book at the 4mo mark about 4/5 years ago for an October trip. Only a kidani akv 2bd and SSR 1bds were open. We learned our lesson. We ended up at kidani in a huge 2bd with only one toddler (1200 sq ft for 2 adults and a toddler). What a waste of space and points. It was our least favorite trip.

We now almost always exclusively book at 10-11mo, then switch if we can at 7mo (which we did this year for poly). Otherwise, we do 1 or 2bds at bwv (std only) or std or lake at BLT.

 

[disneynutz]

Don't know why it's more difficult now, could be renting, could be people bought off-site and now they want to stay at WDW resorts, could be that the number of owners has increased, could be that more DVC rooms are being filled with cash guests.

As an owner you can either take your changes or buy where you love to stay.

Bill

 

[Deb & Bill]

With the extension of Flower and Garden, plus the earlier start of Food & Wine, plus all the half marathons, 10Ks and marathons, a lot of DVC resorts are getting booked up at seven months out. And the renters know it, so they try to find an owner to book their stay before seven months out.

 

[bwvBound]

We have been owners at Boardwalk for a long time. When we first purchased it was easy to make reservations. Now within the past 2-3 years its impossible to make any reservations unless its 11 months out. We used to like to get away for maybe 2-3 days but we can never find an opening. As owners for a long time do you notice this too? I truly think its because a company, I don't know how, is able to sell rooms from owners. I thought years ago it was illegal for a company to rent rooms unless directly by the owner. Just looking for thoughts and options. Please keep it light.

We've owned for 12+ years. I booked a Standard View 1BR at BWV for this year's F&G at 7 months. There seemed to be many room options available when I booked.

 

[drusba]

Have owned BWV since 1997. Back then you could still get a room at 5 months out most of the year (preferred view as there was no boardwalk view booking category at the time). Owners never feared not getting the room they wanted, even standard view, as long as they booked any time before the 7 month window opened, except there was always a concern about Grand Villas.

A lot has obviously changed since then, but there are several reasons for the change, and rentals are likely a minor culprit if at all. Also, it is still fairly easy to get BWV pool/garden view even at 7 months out about 8 1/2 months of the year, from the Monday after marathon weekend in Jan to late Sep. Moreover, during that time even standard and boardwalk view studios and 2BRs can sometimes be had for up to a week at 7 months out, and those are generally open a month or more past the 11 month window even for holiday times. One bedrooms, including standard and boardwalk view, are invariably open during that time beyond the 7 month window. However, studios of any view (and resulting 2BRs) seldom last far past the 7 month window any more for much of that time, and that is something that has actually existed since SSR had about a year's worth of sales and has grown for the near park resorts exponentially with the additon of SSR, AKV, and other non-WDW resorts.

The key season of change has been late September to marathon weekend in January. Christmas, Dec 23 to Jan 1, was always a very high demand time, although it usually did not require booking exactly11 months out and you could wait up to half a month to a month past the 11 month window and still get what you wanted. The Tuesday through Friday of Thanksgiving week was also fairly high demand and those nights could disappear by 9 months out in the early 2000's. The massive changes for that last quarter of the year did not just occur in the last couple years but have actually been building up over many years with each year getting somewhat worse than the prior one.

The multiple reasons for the change include:

Food & Wine has expanded from a short event to a very long event. They also added a half marathon weekend to it. Halloween has gone from being something that occurred at Halloween to something that occurs Sep and Oct. Christmas season was something that started Thanksgiving and now begins early Nov. The points are low, mostly choice season. The weather is ideal. Thus it has all the trappings for being a very popular DVC time.

You now have many more BWV members who want that time. Many who bought when it was on sale from DVD in the late 1990's to early 2000's still own there and that population, which was tied to children's school schedules when purchasing, has now aged, is sans children, and can choose to go during that last quarter. Moreover, many of those owners can now opt for a studio when in years past they needed a 1BR or 2BR with the kids. That particular BWV population continues to grow annually

Disney sold many low point "add ons" at BWV over the years. The ease of selling and buying resales has grown tremendously since since 2,000 as the internet became the place where everyone could easily find and purchase resales. Resale purchasers were not bound to the Disney 160 point minimum purchase that existed in the early through mid-2000's and the resales of highest demand were always those with low points, 25 to 100, meaning those add-ons eventually created many new owners in additon to the owners that purchased them, and those new owners have points that are enough only for studios, and those points can be best used in low point point seasons, like most of the last quarter of the year.

Disney, beginning in late 2009, then took another major step that assured demand for BWV studios in the last quarter of the year, would become excessive. Disney was always getting back BWV points to sell either via foreclosures or exercising right of first refusal, and when reselling the points it could do so in any increment, not being bound to the owner's contract size for a sale. After the crash, Disney did away with the 160 point minimum for new purchasers and started selling minimums of 100 points and at times even as low as 50 points. Moreover, Disney went on a binge of price increases beginning in 2011 that has raised the price it was selling BWV by 60% (when inflation was less than 2% annually), thus causing even more new purchasers to buy only the 100 point minimum, limiting them to reserving studios.

Disney meanwhile has not reacted to the increase in demand by doing any point increases that would lower the demand for the last quarter, which would be accompanied by point decreases in the low demand spring and summer seasons so demand could increase for those.

Adding to the problem is that owners just know more now. Before January 2012, there was no online reservation system. Before that time, any higher demand in the last quarter was just something members learned of in passing from hearing other members mention once in a while that they had a problem during October or another time. Prior to that time, members mostly believed October and November were increasing in demand but probably no worse than the spring break months, which were thought to be high demand. In fact, most incorrectly believed that the hardest rooms to get, and the ones that always required booking exactly 11 months out, were Grand Villas. We now know Grand Villas, except at BWV, are usually easy to get at 7 months out during most of that mid-Jan to late Sep period. Most knew early December, Thanksgiving, and Christmas were very high demand times for which there could be issues if you did not reserve some things 11 months out, but also assumed the same for the Easter weeks, July 4 time, and Presidents' week. Since Jan 2012, we have learned that the entire last quarter is a very high demand quarter and it keeps getting worse. That growth in knowledge has contributed to members believing more and more that the only safe course is to reserve that time exactly 11 months out, particularly if seeking a standard or boardwalk view studio at BWV or other usual suspects such as BLT standard studios, AKV club level studios, AKV value studios, and VGF studios.

Thus, the current poblem with reservations in the last quarter of the year, including problems at 11 months out for standard or boardwalk view studios at BWV, is the result of several changes over the years. Renters might contribute a little but it is likely very little. If you want to blame someone, the major culprit is Disney. It created the events that entice people to go during the last quarter, sold low point add-ons which could be resold to persons who had no previous 160 point minimum of points, destroyed all realistic minimums by lowering the minimum points needed to 100 and at times 50 so that many new purchasers would not have enough points to get anything larger than a studio, and greedily raised the price of points 60% during a recession to assure more and more would purchase only the 100 point minimum, and has done nothing to change the points needed in that last quarter in comparison to other quarters.

 

[Sammie]

Definitely think renting has affected availability. I have friends whose parents have owned at OKW since it opened. They let points expire every year. Only now have they started renting their extra points. With social media, renting is very well known now, unlike even 5 years ago.

Also as members age, they are tired of Disney and using their points to trade out more.

I just think more members are using their points now.

 

[CarolMN]

Merged this thread with a similar thread from Resorts Forum.

 

[CarolMN]

And in the years going forward, we can add to drusba's post by mentioning the advent of the Murphy bed. By adding the Murphy bed to the studios, Disney ensured that the competition for the studios will only grow worse as parties of 5 will now opt for that rather than the larger villas.

 

[Dean]

We have been owners at Boardwalk for a long time. When we first purchased it was easy to make reservations. Now within the past 2-3 years its impossible to make any reservations unless its 11 months out. We used to like to get away for maybe 2-3 days but we can never find an opening. As owners for a long time do you notice this too? I truly think its because a company, I don't know how, is able to sell rooms from owners. I thought years ago it was illegal for a company to rent rooms unless directly by the owner. Just looking for thoughts and options. Please keep it light.

IMO DVC members have enjoyed more availability than expected for some time. It's just now getting to where one would/should expect it to be. There are several moving parts to this including park changes, slowly improving economy and the like. The big difference that is additive to that on Disney's side is the addition of SSR and the boatload of points looking at 7 months out. Predictably about 2-3 years after SSR was sold out (giving new owners a chance to stay there then move on), the impact should be maxed. Disney Springs and the booking category change may have minimal impact but it will be minimal. Disney can rent anything they own (points or undeclared inventory), anything given up by members for cash type exchanges, breakage inventory at under 60 days and even can anticipate breakage inventory back to 11 months out.

 

[Meandnevaeh]

I would think that the number of off property points sold would affect this more than renting, whether someone rents out their points or uses them themselves would have the same result, BWV booked. The people that buy off property points but try to book on property at 7 months would make it a lot harder for anyone to get reservations at 4-5 months out, because now they are using points that are allotted to a different resort off property on property.

 

[CarolMN]

I would think that the number of off property points sold would affect this more than renting, whether someone rents out their points or uses them themselves would have the same result, BWV booked. The people that buy off property points but try to book on property at 7 months would make it a lot harder for anyone to get reservations at 4-5 months out, because now they are using points that are allotted to a different resort off property on property.

Except that until the past couple of years, many of those WDW DVC owners let their points expire and I think the brokers will tell you that their customer base has been growing every year. (I know that the Rental Forum here on the DIS is stronger than ever, even though many must pay a fee to offer their points. Many owners want to rent their points - the R/T Forum turns away many more than are accepted due to failure to meet the required criteria. And the DIS is only one of many websites that offer a rental board).

Now that brokers have taken a lot of the "work" out of renting and more owners & renters have discovered the rental market, those points are getting used. And a lot of them are getting used before the 7 month window. There's a reason the brokers are paying owners more for the near-park resort points that can be used in the home resort priority period - and they are often turning away customers because not enough of those owners are giving them points to rent. Those who pay more for points to get a reservation more than 7 months prior to arrival do not move at 7 months. There is definitely less availability at the 7 month mark for the near park resorts than there has been in the past.

While the rentals may not be the largest factor, it is a growing factor. JMHO. YMMV.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

And in the years going forward, we can add to drusba's post by mentioning the advent of the Murphy bed. By adding the Murphy bed to the studios, Disney ensured that the competition for the studios will only grow worse as parties of 5 will now opt for that rather than the larger villas.

Just casual observation but VWL studios seem to be gone much faster than in the past.

 

[drusba]

Just casual observation but VWL studios seem to be gone much faster than in the past.

It will probably be a few years before we can conclude the adding of of the fifth bed has definitely made a difference for studios, although I suspect that may be the case. VWL has construction issues that make it difficult to conclude what is actually occurring. Possibly there is a lot more demand as a result of the fifth bed and maybe it will end up being far more than you are seeing, because there are probably many who are simply avoiding VWL because of the construction that is going on and which will continue through much of next year.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It will probably be a few years before we can conclude the adding of of the fifth bed has definitely made a difference for studios, although I suspect that may be the case. VWL has construction issues that make it difficult to conclude what is actually occurring. Possibly there is a lot more demand as a result of the fifth bed and maybe it will end up being far more than you are seeing, because there are probably many who are simply avoiding VWL because of the construction that is going on and which will continue through much of next year.

I was noticing this in the time between the completion and before they started setting aside rooms for the construction. But as more studios get the set up for 5 it might ease back again, at least at VWL. I know I've always been glad though that we mostly want 1 BRs!

 

[Dean]

While the rentals may not be the largest factor, it is a growing factor. JMHO. YMMV.

I doubt rentals have much overall impact. The same number of points are going to be used. My sense is that rentals are far more targeting the home resort priority period and likely are having slightly less impact on the 7 month window or after.