Question for moms of boys

[Mkrop]

But if you base your life choices on the .0002% that something bad might happen, you can miss one hell of a lot of the good in life.

I was raped in college. I could use that piece of information and that small percent to say my boys would never have any freedoms, I choose not to do that. Had I changed my life to focus on that devestating night, I would have missed a million good things.

I guess it depends on whether one looks at the positive or the negative.

mkrop, I suspect you are right about our outlook!

Wow that is a horrible experience and I am glad you were able to move forward from it, many cant.

ETA: I think we all have had bad things happen in our life that have shaped our experiences and I try not to focus on the negatives and the what ifs but I guess how I see it is I am not living in the 2% but I am being cautious(and some may say overly, you are entitled to that opinion) and I feel I am using my common sense when I approach these things but I think many have an aribtrary age in their head where I myself am looking at the individaul child and thinking what can he handle.

 

[Mkrop]

I wanted to post this story too of how I am trying to allow DS9 to have more independence in going to the bathroom.

We were driving home from Busch Gardens last weekend and we stopped for dinner about 20 minutes from home at a chain Italian restaurant called Carrabas. DS9 says he needs to use the restrrom, DH says fine, go in, dont talk to anyone , wash your hands and come right back to the table. (I want to go stand by the door but DH says just try our table is pretty close) Ok as I sweat DS9 comes back to the table and declares that was the weridest bathroom exp of his life. Calmly I ask why. And he says some Italian man was forcing me to speak Italain, well I am flipping out inside at this point and DH is looking at me concerned, so we start asking questions, and DH is about to get up when the lightbulb goes on over DH's head. Hey DS9 was the man speaking to you in Italian over a loud speaker, was there anyone in there with you???? DS9 says no I was in there by myself. Well DH breathes a huge sigh of relief when he remember that if you call for takeout they play Italian music and they also try to teach basic Italian so they probably play that same tape in the restrooms as well. Well you never saw 2 parents breather the biggest sigh of relief ever!

 

[WantToGoNow]

I do have both a boy (6) and a girl (3) that's why I do understand both sides of this issue. A small boy is not a problem -- an older boy is. Once a boy starts to take interest in girls, the women's restroom is not the place for him. I know very few 9-10-11 and older boys that are not interested in the opposite gender. Other than being embarassing for him, especially if HIS peers she him entering a women's room, it puts him in a situation where I'm sure he's uncomfortable. Would you be comfortable going into the men's room? Would the men in there be comfortable with you being there? There is a reason why the restrooms are separated -- otherwise we would just have unisex restrooms and all go in together. I understand the need that you feel to protect your boys (and girls for that matter), but there comes a time when you must let them grow up a bit -- and using a public restroom is just one of those times. You will not always be there to hold their hand and protect them from all harm -- they have to be taught to do that on their own.

I got a stern lecture from my pediatrician last year for telling my son (who was 5 at the time) of some of the dangers of being outside playing alone (strangers, kidnapping, a little of what you ladies are concerned will happen in those very busy restrooms) which scared him and he didn't want to be outside alone. He said there is a line where we have to let go and pray for the best. He stated when we overemphasize these issues we are causing more mental damage to our children than need be. This summer, I talked to him about not approaching strange cars, not going into anyone's house (except the few boys he's friends with on our street and I know their parents) and to scream, yell and run to the first house he gets to if anyone approached him.

As our kids grow, it is our responsibility to help them, teach them, let them learn. We can protect them to a point, but they do need to develop the independence that they will need to become functioning adults. Obviously, there are dangers in this world that we would like to protect them from forever, unfortunately we can't do that.

 

[Mkrop]

:

I do have both a boy (6) and a girl (3) that's why I do understand both sides of this issue. A small boy is not a problem -- an older boy is. Once a boy starts to take interest in girls, the women's restroom is not the place for him. I know very few 9-10-11 and older boys that are not interested in the opposite gender. Other than being embarassing for him, especially if HIS peers she him entering a women's room, it puts him in a situation where I'm sure he's uncomfortable. Would you be comfortable going into the men's room? Would the men in there be comfortable with you being there? There is a reason why the restrooms are separated -- otherwise we would just have unisex restrooms and all go in together. I understand the need that you feel to protect your boys (and girls for that matter), but there comes a time when you must let them grow up a bit -- and using a public restroom is just one of those times. You will not always be there to hold their hand and protect them from all harm -- they have to be taught to do that on their own.

I got a stern lecture from my pediatrician last year for telling my son (who was 5 at the time) of some of the dangers of being outside playing alone (strangers, kidnapping, a little of what you ladies are concerned will happen in those very busy restrooms) which scared him and he didn't want to be outside alone. He said there is a line where we have to let go and pray for the best. He stated when we overemphasize these issues we are causing more mental damage to our children than need be. This summer, I talked to him about not approaching strange cars, not going into anyone's house (except the few boys he's friends with on our street and I know their parents) and to scream, yell and run to the first house he gets to if anyone approached him.

As our kids grow, it is our responsibility to help them, teach them, let them learn. We can protect them to a point, but they do need to develop the independence that they will need to become functioning adults. Obviously, there are dangers in this world that we would like to protect them from forever, unfortunately we can't do that.

I have to disagree with some of what you said, my son is 9 about to turn 10 and I spend a lot of time with him and the other kids in his grade (going into 4th) these boys at this point are NOT interested in girls, they are still at the ignoring girl stage. Now this may change over the course of this year but there isnt an arbitrary number that you can say at X they are into girls. It started at the end of 5th grade for some of the kids (via info from my next door neighbor who's daughter is going through this) Now this may vary from area to area but from the interaction I have seen at parties, in the recess yard, in the classroom and in library, do not support that when they turn 9 they instantly begin to have an interest in each other. This is my personal exp.

Also if my ped gave me a lecture about anything that wasnt health related I would probably being finding a new ped, but that is just me, thank goodness I love my peds right now.

I do train my kids in all the ways that you have mentioned, we roleplay etc, and I am allowing my child his independence, what I dont appreciate is people (not you specifically) telling me what age that needs to be. That is for me to determine, not someone else saying it needs to be X. And like I said I am using this year 9 going on 10 as my transition year but I am not going to tell someone else what age that should be for them.

Like I said, I may be the first to let my kid doing something else later in life and you will be like no way or saying not for another year or not until you are over 18 etc, whether it is dating, driving, going places solo etc. Should I judge you bc you dont want your kid to do this at the same age as I do? No I respect you decision to do it when you feel is best for your family.

Plus everyone keeps mentioning being in the opposite sex bathroom and feeling uncomfortable, you know there are gay people in there as well. Do I worry about changing bc someone is gay may find me attractive in there (if they do thay need their eyes checked ) I dont think anyone is eyeing up the other. I really dont get hung up on these things, I or we go in there and get what we need to get done.

 

[Chekhov Liszt]

He's 4 and you think he's too young to bring in with you? I bring my 4 year old in with me all the time. I wouldn't think of doing anything differently. What kind of questions are you afraid he'll ask? Any that I can think of would be fine and a good opportunity for you to teach him some things.

 

[Chekhov Liszt]

Thanks everyone. I have no problem bringing him into the ladies room, I just didn't want to bring him into the stall with me while I go to the bathroom and didn't know what to do with him if i'm in there.

To clarify what I said earlier...my 4 year old comes into the stall with me. I really don't see the problem, though I do realize we're all different.

 

[Chekhov Liszt]

You have got to be kidding me An 11 yr old boy in the ladies room! Yeah that's just what I want my 9 yr old girl who is where she belongs to have to deal with. That is a problem waiting to happen, 11 and 12 yr old kids have been arrested for molesting little ones you know. An 11 yr old does not belong in the opposite sex's bathroom. I don't want my small children dealing with almost teens-talk about problems. He is in middle school and he can't go to the bathroom by himself! They have had sex ed by then they know what is going on, they have hormones, they are starting to like girls and girls that age are dealing with periods and they really want a boy their age in there watching them. I think it is time you let him grow up. My son would have refused to go in and rightly so.

I would definitely say something to you in fact I would probably call a CM that there was an inappropriate male in the womens room and I want him out.

Yes LITTLE boys belong with a parent. Pre-teens belong in the bathroom for their sex.

He may not be a typical 11 year old. If he is, then yes, I agree it is too old to be in the ladies bathroom.

 

[LuvOrlando]

But if you base your life choices on the .0002% that something bad might happen, you can miss one hell of a lot of the good in life.

I was raped in college. I could use that piece of information and that small percent to say my boys would never have any freedoms, I choose not to do that. Had I changed my life to focus on that devestating night, I would have missed a million good things.

I guess it depends on whether one looks at the positive or the negative.

mkrop, I suspect you are right about our outlook!

That's your choice and I respect it. Now there is the pesky question of why other people do not respect my choices as equally valid. Maybe that 2% is ok for you but it isn't for me. Why isn't that ok?...

Oh, and statistically, females have 25% chance of assault BEFORE 18 (1 in 4) and males 20% (1 in 5) according to Gavin DeBecker in the book "Protecting the gift". Pretty messed up if you ask me. While its true that no, I can't control EVERYTHING it isn't true that nothing I do matters in the end.

 

[maxtomsmom]

Nobody is worried about a 7 year old in the restroom. Its the people that insist they will take their boys that are 9+. There are people that have posted on other threads, not this one that they will continue to take older boys until they feel ready.

I was the second poster on the tread, I told the OP that nobody would think anything about taking a 5 year old into the restroom with her. Its when the same posters insist they will be taking their preteen boys into the restroom with them that it becomes an issue. Taking a 5, 6 or even 7 year old isn't the same as a 10, 11 or 12 year old in. Once your child is old enought to be in class with girls who are becoming women, they need to respect their privacy and use the proper restroom.

I get what you are saying and I respect that. I guess it would have to depend upon where we were at the time. Disney maybe safer than a local mall or a store. As a mom of two boys and the overwhelming statistic that men are more likely to hurt a young child it is rare to hear about a girl getting molested by another woman. However, there have been instances where boys have been beat -up, fondled, molested and even killed in a bathroom. Now while I will agree this is not common and especially if I am standing outside the bathroom, but it is none a less a fear. There comes a point where as mothers we do need to let them go, but each boy is different. My son wouldn't know how to handle himself in a tricky situation, but he's six. DH and I talk and talk to him about stranger danger, but in reality, he would clam up and probably do what the adult is telling him what to do. I know this because he still chats and walks with any friendly person. We are working on that, believe me, but right now he's not ready. We hope he will be ready at 9. So while I respect what you are saying (and I agree that after 9 is really pushing it a bit), I think we as a society need to be a little understanding. Perhaps waiting until the girl is finished using the bathroom or making the son put his feet under his mom's stall making it harder to look into other stalls. BTW I make my DS turn his back to the stall. I can still see his feet and it is difficult for him to see anyone else doing what they are doing in their stalls.

 

[mommylicious]

I am the mother of 3 boys. I have a 2nd grader, a kindergartener and a baby. We have already started letting our 7 year old go alone in situations where we feel it is safe. In more limited situations (small restaurant we frequent, we can see the restroom door etc) we let our 5 year old go with him but if they aren't back in under 2 minutes DH, or I if need be, will be going to check on them. My older boys both look at least 2 years older than they are so my oldest could be perceived by some as "too old" to be in with me.

I consider myself to be a responsible and considerate parent. In many situations now I am OK with sending the boys into the mens room. In another 2 years I'm sure most situations I will be OK with my oldest in the mens room. I'm more concerned when we are alone and *I* need to go but don't feel safe leaving them alone outside the restroom. Our local mall is a situation like that. Too busy, too crowded, restrooms in a bad area for having kids wait outside. Thankfully they have family restrooms and yes, I have been in a situation where I have had to bring my 2 sons into the family restroom with me while I find myself needing to change a tampon...so I get the issue there. My experience with that is another story though. I say I consider myself to be both responsible and considerate because I truly do try to let my sons develop some independence and I have already started evaluating each situation as it comes up. If we are in a situation where I do not feel safe letting the boys go into a mens room unattended OR I do not feel safe leaving them alone outside while I have to go and we are not anywhere where a family restroom is an option, then they come in with me. To the mothers of girls I would say that I too was a young girl and I remember that awkward self conscious phase. You can bet your bottom dollar that your daughter's discomfort was one of the things I thought about in deciding what I need to do. I will have considered her just as you can also bet I considered something like how far are we from the car (not talking Disney here but other situations since my boys almost always realize they need to pee just as we are leaving somewhere) and do I have an empty water or soda bottle they can pee in at the car and I can then toss! I've thought about it all and if I still feel the need to bring my sons in then I'm sorry. My sons safety will trump your daughter's comfort. If I have an option other than bringing them in, I will use it but if I don't then it is only because it is a situation where I have genuine concern for their safety and not an issue of not cutting apron strings and making them come in the girls room every single time. We will be in and out as fast as we can and I will make sure they are well behaved. Already now they know that they can't hang out right by the stalls where people could accuse them of trying to peek in. If there is an option where there is an area just before you get to the stalls, I have them stand there and I talk to them the whole time (if I need to, usually they are talking to each other and I can hear them). If one of my boys were to have layed down on the floor to peek under a stall and got his nose kicked, I'd be apologizing to the little girl and her mother, not yelling about it. There would be consequences for my son. Obviously I don't think that would be an issue with my kids as we've already had numerous talks on what is appropriate and people wanting privacy.

Someone mentioned changing kids. I wouldn't strip my 7 or 8 year old in the open area of a restroom even if you guaranteed me it would all be same sex individuals in there! My son would be MORTIFIED if I did that. We'd wait for a handicap stall and change in there. Actually at 7, my son could change himself in a regular stall.

I found myself in a tough situation with the boys a few weeks ago. We went on a long weekend vacation and went to a waterpark. DH and my father had left a little earlier than my mother and I to go grab some stuff they wanted before we headed home. They were to pick us up and start the drive home at a certain time so we needed to change into dry clothes. I asked if there was a family change area and was told no. My 7 year old was not comfortable going into the mens changing area alone and my 5 year old needed help so I had to take them in the women's. My mother went in first to be sure it wasn't just an open change area (horrors! LOL) but rather had curtained change cubes. She waited in there untill the very first one was open then called out to me and I literally RAN the boys in there after lecturing them to look at their own feet the whole way in, and into a cube. I got them changed and ran them back out (again with the look at your feet" rule) then Mom waited with them while I changed and I waited while she changed. No one said anything to me but I got a few "looks." I did the best I could and before going in there I had spent probably 15 minutes trying to find an alternative option including considering changing my kids behind a towel but as I said above, my sons were completely mortified and near tears at that idea.

I don't think most mothers of boys are completely discounting the concerns of young girls, we are just wanting to make sure our sons aren't part of the 2%. I couldn't live with myself if I sent my sons alone into a restroom or left them outside alone while I went in a situation where my gut said not to and something happened to them. Even if it wasn't a "worst case" thing, if they were just traumatized. I couldn't forgive myself for not listening to my gut. Unfortunately I know all too well how quickly and easily something can happen. My 2nd grader has already been molested by a neighborhood kid and we've spent months dealing with the emotional fall out. Physically he's fine but this child did very inapropriate things to him and wanted him to do the same back but he refused. Some may blow it off but when it's your child and you are answering questions no 2nd grader should be asking and holding a sobbing child who is telling you how it made him feel all "creepy crawly" inside but he didn't want to lose his friend so he didn't refuse to let this child do these things...once you've done that, you don't discount the impact of what can happen in a few minutes in a situation you thought would be safe.

 

[meandtheguys2]

That's your choice and I respect it. Now there is the pesky question of why other people do not respect my choices as equally valid. Maybe that 2% is ok for you but it isn't for me. Why isn't that ok?...

Oh, and statistically, females have 25% chance of assault BEFORE 18 (1 in 4) and males 20% (1 in 5) according to Gavin DeBecker in the book "Protecting the gift". Pretty messed up if you ask me. While its true that no, I can't control EVERYTHING it isn't true that nothing I do matters in the end.

Not attempting to argue, but if it makes you feel better, those statistics have been highly suspect for years. They were virtually guesses used for a grant apllications and people started using them as "fact." Statutory rape stats were also a part of that equation.

eta: The reason people don't respect your choice is because they feel your choice affects them in a negative manner. They don't want older boys in the ladies room. And you (and those who feel they have the right to do whatever they want) really are disrespecting their feelings. In the end it is all about you.

 

[maxtomsmom]

After reading about this and being a mom of two boys I started asking friends with older sons about letting them use the men's bathroom alone. I had an interesting conversation about this issue with my BF yesterday. She told me that at Six Flags Great Adventure in New Jersey her neighbor's son who is 10, was harassed by a bunch of teenage boys while his mother waited outside. They were a bunch of punks and told him he was gay, and they can tell by the way he is peeing. He was terrified. There were 4 of them and they were at least 15 years old. He started to cry and told them to leave him alone. Then they started teasing him for crying. After the boy was done, they wouldn't let him leave. Eventually they ended it as someone else walked in and left before him. He told his mother and she went up to someone and told him what happened. They never saw the teenagers again probably because this happened the last hour of the park hours. Now, other than the teasing, they never physically harmed him and it was done in about 4 minutes. But the scar from this will last much longer.

BTW I had several fathers ask me to check on their daughter and call her name as I went in. I never mind doing that.

 

[lisalonglash]

"My sons safety will trump your daughter's comfort. If I have an option other than bringing them in, I will use it but if I don't then it is only because it is a situation where I have genuine concern for their safety and not an issue of not cutting apron strings and making them come in the girls room every single time."

I couldn't agree more. Well-behaved boys in the ladies' washroom, whether they are 2 years old or 8 yeard old, are OK with me. What I am wondering is who even pays attention to other people in the washroom anyway? I'm there to go to the washroom, not take attendance...

 

[minniemarie]

Why is there such a gap between the doors anyway? The only time I have ever experienced this is in the USA esp DW. If there was no gap would this make people feel happier re privacy issues? Just a thought....

 

[mommylicious]

The reason people don't respect your choice is because they feel your choice affects them in a negative manner. They don't want older boys in the ladies room. And you (and those who feel they have the right to do whatever they want) really are disrespecting their feelings. In the end it is all about you.

See, the thing is I could just as easily turn it around and say it is that YOU are making it all about YOU by not being willing to respect that mothers of well behaved and respectful sons are only trying to look out for their children's SAFETY. In the end all mothers want to make sure their kids are safe. It's not likely that the son in the restroom with his mom is going to do anything to your daughter. Chances are he's too busy being embarassed to be in the ladies room to begin with rather than seeing it as some fantasy come true trying to sneak a peek. His Mom wouldn't have made him come in there if she didn't feel there was a genuine reason for doing so.

OF course we are only talking about WELL BEHAVED kids here, a child of any age laying on the floor to peek under the door is completely unacceptable. But lets be real and admit that MOST of these boys aren't going to do that.

 

[Hannathy]

Then let's be real and admit the danger to allowing an older boy to use the men's room at Disney is minuscule.

 

[TinkerValkyrie]

I don't understand how people would get all offended by male children using the restrooms with their mothers. It should be up to the parent to decide when they were mature enough to go in alone.

I've used co-ed by stall restrooms in the past when traveling in Europe(yes, men AND women using the same bathroom at the SAME time) and it was no big deal. No one was trying to get cheap thrills or acted inappropriately. They just went in, did their business, and went out.

 

[mommylicious]

Then let's be real and admit the danger to allowing an older boy to use the men's room at Disney is minuscule.

Yeah, it is. BUT if you had read my earlier post you would see that I said that already I only bring my 7 year old into the ladies room if I feel uncomfortable with the situation AND if there is no other option available to me. On our last Disney trip he was 6.5 and he went into the mens room alone just fine. My bigger concern would have been leaving him unattended while *I* went to the restroom (had we been alone, DH was with us so it was never an issue). I have no issue marching into the mens room if they've been in there too long and don't answer me if I call from the door. Another I'd avoid it if I could but a Mom has to do what a Mom has to do to make sure her kids are safe. We will be traveling Christmas week this year and you can bet your bottom dollar that I will not leave my 5 and 7 year old sons unattended outside a restroom alone for up to 20 minutes while I stand in a line to go to the bathroom. Not in the insane crowds we will be around. Too easy for them to wander away. Not likely that they will be abducted but it's also not a risk I'm willing to take. My bigger concern is them wandering away. They are not mature enough to be expected to stand still in one spot for 20 minutes in a crowded theme park while Mom goes to pee (again, DH will be with us so I doubt it will be an issue but if it is, I'll go with my gut). Most of the time if they are in with me somewhere it is in the evening/night somewhere where we are not familiar.

Yeah, the risk is minimal, but if we are being honest, the risk is higher than it was that my son would be molested MORE THAN ONCE by a child 2 years older than him in our backyard where we thought he was safe and sound. Things happen and it sucks when they do. I'm doing my best not to shelter my kids but I also will not ignore my gut if my gut is saying to keep them with me. What I will do is do my best to make sure that we are in and out as quickly as we can, that they stay out of the way in the least obtrusive position available and that they respect the privacy of other "bathroom patrons" as much as possible. If that makes me a bad Mom, then let me give you the address to send the bad Mommy award ribbon and I'll wear it with pride.

 

[Think_Tink_Think]

Whenever I out somewhere with my little brother who's 4 but looks 5 or 6 and it's just the two of us I have him use the stall next to me and if he gets done first I have him wait outside my door or by the sink. I don't have to worry about someone messing with him because I can hear him the whole time were in the bathroom since he's never quite.

Whenever my cousin is out with his little sister or daughter and he needs to go to the bathroom he makes the girls stand right out side the restroom and sing loud enough that he can hear them and knows if they stop singing then hes need to hurry up because something is wrong. So if my brother ever gets to where he doesn't talk so much I might just have to make him sing in the bathroom.

But I would take your son with you since he's only 4 (at least i think that's how old you said he was sorry if I'm wrong about the age). I don't think anyone would have a problem with it even if they don't have children of they own.

 

[Mkrop]

Then let's be real and admit the danger to allowing an older boy to use the men's room at Disney is minuscule.

I totally diagree with this. I dont think the risk is miniscule. It HAPPENED at the Swan and Dolphin, it HAPPENED at Blizzard Beach, that some creep was preying on children.

I treat Disney like I treat anywhere, the mall, the baseball stadium, anywhere, I evaluate the risk as I see it and I act accordingly. If I feel my sons is safe, then he can go in, if mommy radar doesnt feel that it is safe he comes in with me.

Are there studies that show that my well behaved child who repects where he is will harm your daughter or anyone elses in the future or at that moment?

I dont worry about stats. I worry about profiles and behaviors. These creeps go where the kids are. Whether they know the child or not they use maninpulative behaviors to get to the kids.

I remember watching a Dateline thing with a profile of a child molester. He would buy skating rinks, prey on his victims, succeed and then if he thought he was going to get caught he closed the rink and move on and it took authorities a long time to catch him.

They always tell woman to take certain precautions when we are shopping esp at night so we dont get mugged and/or rape. They tell us to park in well lit areas, they tell us to have our keys ready, not to fool with our packages, if you can walk out with other people, be careful if you have long hair etc. Is this because we are all stupid and not "trained" enough (like you are expecting me to train my child) if one of should prey victim. I guess it would be the womans fault if this happen to her, not the creep who over powered her, found her vulnerability, and manipulated the situation.

Therefore I am taking the same precautions that authorities tell you to, do not put the potential victim in certain situatuions where they could be at risk and in the same moment balancing that with allowing my child to grow up.