Question about Computer Programmer Salary

[jennilouwho]

DH and I were looking on Monster.com tonight and it seems he should be making quite a bit more than he is, according to the salary estimators for your region thing. He is a level IV computer programmer. We are in Utah and he is making about $45,000 a year. According to monster.com he should be making about $20,000 more. I know it's going to vary by your state and company size (this is a small company), but we're just wondering if $45,000 sounds fair or if we should be looking for someplace else. He's been there for 7 years and hates to leave his friends, etc, but he also thinks for $20,000 more a year he could make new friends! Anyone have any knowledge about this or any idea of the monster.com salary wizard is even accurate?

Thanks for your help!

Jen

 

[tpask8r]

A system administrator's salary for most large corporations in Tampa is about 65-85K depending on experience. In my experience, computer programming has gone to India. A move to a major city in a major state will probably help you get a more attractive salary. You also might try diversifying your experience/resume. If you can program, than you can easily learn unix and linux. Windows is a piece of cake. Learn sysadmin skills for Windows, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, and Linux. Then learn your networking skills. That, with the programming, should make you very well rounded. Also, big, which deal with programming are the webservers like Weblogic and IPlanet, and high availability clustering for each OS listed above and for Symantec/Veritas. Once you learn all of that and how the all interact, you can move to data center management, or Computer Operations Management for $85-100K.

Most importantly, you need to find what makes you happy and do that. That is all that really matters! Good luck to you!!!!

Keep Smiling!

 

[Cindy B]

Programming jobs and soon to be all IT jobs are going offshore in droves.

$45K is or can be reasonable depending on the job market. cost of living, etc.

 

[ducklite]

"Programmer" is a really nondescript word. Bottom line, what are his skills? What languages does he know? What exactly is he programming?

I was a "Programmer analyst" at my last job, but all I worked with was HTML, JavaScript, CGI-Perl, and Photoshop. Not exactly a "programmer." If he's doing something like that, in your area that's probably about the right amount of money for his experience.

DH is a Sr. Technical Analyst, and he leads a team that builds complex, secure Java-based web applications. If he's doing something like that, he's underpaid for your area.

You need to give more info.

Anne

 

[daughtersrus]

I would say that it completely depends on the type of "programming" you do, your degree and the company that you work for. A very good friend of mine has a Masters in math and works for Reuters. He is has been there about 12 years and is currently making just over $180,000/year. He also gets WONDERFUL benefits (stock options, insurance, vacations, flex plan...as well as many company sponsored "field trips" (like renting out a roof-top across from Wrigley Field to watch a Cubs game). I think that's because there are a European based company. From what I understand, he designs software that major banks from around the world (like those on Wall Street) use for stock trading. He does have to travel about 6 times a year usually to London (their home office), Paris, Bangkok, New York...

I know that this is probably not the norm.

 

[jennilouwho]

Ducklite, he know Java, C, C++, PHP, SQL, my SQL, realbasic, mac, and windows. I know his current employer would never outsource, it's too small of a company. So now I'm worried if he did switch he'd lose his job down the road.... hmmm...

 

[Darth Cupcake]

DH is a software engineer but it would be foolish of me to compare your DH's salary to his due to so many other determining factors. I don't know what the cost of living is in Utah but I think $45K is generally low. However, like others have said, salary most often depends on factors like the company, his skills, his education (degree - BS, masters, Ph.D), and location. Is this amount similar to others in his field at other companies in Utah?

You are right; salary isn't everything. Job security, location, quality of life are all factors that should be considered.

If you love where you live and have quality friends, I'd think long and hard before moving. Frankly, I'd take a cut in DH's salary if it meant we'd move to a place where I could feel more comfortable with people.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[twinklebug]

How did you determine he's a programmer 4 when looking up the salary on Monster? My concern here is you say the estimate is that he's worth $20K more than what he's making now. That is a huge jump & even if he intervews elsewhere he'll either be knocked down from that $65K or overlooked entirly due to the difference.

Titles don't really hold much weight. Skill does. Someone here mentioned they were a Programmer Analyst not performing "programmer" work. Most programmer Analysts I've known (myself included) will work heavily on the design side with the client 60% of the time including documentation, and then program for the other part of the time (rarely core functions).

I've been interviewing for Sr. Tech. BA positions only to find many places expect this role to be 50% programming. SWIM? Each company defines roles differently.

Have your husband talk with a technical recruiting company in your area, they should be able to give him a good grasp on what he is and what he should be making.

 

[twinklebug]

Ducklite, he know Java, C, C++, PHP, SQL, my SQL, realbasic, mac, and windows. I know his current employer would never outsource, it's too small of a company. So now I'm worried if he did switch he'd lose his job down the road.... hmmm...

Again, it's what he does with those skills that will make the difference. I try telling people fitting an IT professional into a position isn't like finding a job for a telephone lineman. With the latter, your prospects are going to have the same basic skill set and know how to apply them in the same way. With IT it's like finding a needle in a haystack filled with many needles... but you're looking for the one that's made of specific metal alloy, a certain size eye, length and has had experience in sewing exactly what you need to create.

Your husband's company may not outsource, but the question is, will they eventually start looking at other options and reduce manpower? Will they sell out to a larger competitor who will replace everyone in IT with their own people. Job security isn't like what it was when our dads were working.

It never hurts to open your eyes and look at what's available around you. You don't have to say yes to an offer that comes along if the company seems unstable, and there's a good chance he may be happier with a change & some of his friends may folllow suit.

 

[kellia]

Well, here in Michigan, I used to work as a computer programmer, then 4 years ago this month it was sent to India and now I make $0! (Well, I do home daycare and make a little bit, now I make less in a month than I did in a week!)

 

[ducklite]

Ducklite, he know Java, C, C++, PHP, SQL, my SQL, realbasic, mac, and windows. I know his current employer would never outsource, it's too small of a company. So now I'm worried if he did switch he'd lose his job down the road.... hmmm...

He might be a little underpaid, it's hard to say. He's definitely making less than my DH, but my DH is also a project lead who takes on some application architect roles (that will be his next promotion) and has been writing high level Java code for over ten years--basically since it was first introduced as a replacement for C++. He also knows all the languages your DH does plus a handfull of others including .Net, ASP, and Db2. He's got a masters as well.

Anne

 

[jennilouwho]

Thanks everyone! I did forget to mention he has his BS in computer science. There are about 12 programmers at his company and they take turns being project leads. Our cost of living is comparible to the midwest, or at least where I am from in Wisconsin.

I determined Level IV based on the qualifications it lists on Monster, but even if it was Level II or III, it's still listing more than he is making.

Twinklebug, thanks for the idea to talk to a recruiter. That's a good idea and I think maybe we'll do it. We're not looking to switch right now, but after we decide to have another baby, it'd be nice to make a bit more.

I did look around at the jobs on Monster being offered in our area and they are all listing anywhere from $55,000-$110,000 as the salary and based on qualifications, he fits, so that's why I'm starting to think maybe he's underpaid. His boss is a great man and generous for what he has to work with, but the company just doesn't make enough to raise everyone's salaries by $10,000. Hmmm... Again, thanks for the input, it gives us some more to think about.

 

[My2Cinderellas]

That seems low to me as well, DH is a former programmer, now a DBA and looking to move into data modeling and architecture. $45K sounds like an entry level salary these days.

DH worked for several small companies, and they can be great experiences. It's also easy to get in a safe comfortable zone and you are part of a tightknit group. But when they go bad, it's really ugly.

Large companies have a different set of challenges. there is good and bad about both set ups.

Usually big salary jumps come with changing jobs or a promotion. Otherwise it's 2-3% a year.

You have to decide if the work environment is worth a lower salary. Sometimes it is. DH's last job change was for the same salary due to work environment and no promotional opportunities. It was the first time a job change didn't come iwth a big salary increase, but it was worth it to us.

What I would recommend is that he identify marketable skills he is lacking and work hard towards developing those. If his current company will pay for it, even better. You don't want to focus too tightly on something that may disappear. I know of former "star" AS400 programmers who are working for the State with great job security and lousy pay. They can't leave because they don't have any other skills/options. Don't be caught in a situation like this.

 

[Darth Cupcake]

What I would recommend is that he identify marketable skills he is lacking and work hard towards developing those. If his current company will pay for it, even better.

I agree. Continuously updating and increasing your knowledge and skills is absolutely necessary. DH works on these on his own time. And his company will pay for any education. Also, at least at DH's company, a masters degree is rewarded. If your DH is so inclined it may help. Most Masters degree holders make well over 100K at DH's company. It, of course, depends on the company. But in general, continually increasing one's knowledge and skills will help in the ever changing field of programming.

 

[ducklite]

So true about the training. My DH's company requires a certin number of training hours (and dollars) be spent per person per year, and DH jumps at the opportunity to learn any new skill or language he can. He's not currently working in .ASP, but when he had the opportunity to take a class in it--and then work on a little side project for his boss with it--he jumped at the chance.

Anne

 

[inorpo]

It really depends on his skill set and how he applies it. It may also have alot to do with what the company does. About a year ago I used to be doing the same job as a long time friend both of us doing Sys Admin work mostly Linux with some Open and FreeBSD thrown in. He was working for some spammers doing pump and dump stuff. I was / am working at a smallish(10k subscribers) wireless telco. He was making ~180k/yr and I was making ~50k/yr.
Long story short he ended up leaving the job so there was no chance of going to jail or any other problems. I'm still working here and its not so bad.

The point I was making was we were both similarly qualified but he was making more than double what I was. The reason they were willing to pay him that was he was making them literally tens of thousands a day in profit.

It all depends on who you work for and how much they think you know.

 

[fac]

I agreed with everyone that it depends on his skill set, what he works on, what his company is willing to pay and where you live. Personally I seldom rely on survey result to determine my pay as it tends to be on the low side of the scale.

It is not uncommon for a decent programmer to work in Wall Street to get at least $150,000 as a total comp. My nephew graduated in 2000 with a BS in computer science degree, he was hired out of school (i.e. no experience) for $70,000 + bonus to do programming. Obviously, the standard of living is much higher here.

My suggestion is that if he felt he is underpaid, he may try to go for interview to find out how much people is willing to pay.

 

[jennilouwho]

Thanks again everyone! He just found out today that they are only getting 1 percent raises this year, so we are definately going to have to start thinking about a change. That's not even helpful with cost of living.

 

[twinklebug]

Thanks again everyone! He just found out today that they are only getting 1 percent raises this year, so we are definately going to have to start thinking about a change. That's not even helpful with cost of living.

Ow.

Make that call. A good technical recruiter will help him rework his resume to play up his strengths. Make sure he gets a copy of every resume they send off to a company and mark it with the company name and date - I learned this late in the game.